Roscoe Club

[songwriter21]

I did something similar with my Zoom pedal last night, also, and did I mention that time FLLLLIIIIIES when you're messing with an effects-combo pedal? Holy crap. Anyway, I just plugged my SKB into the pedal, into my little Peavey practice amp. I set the Peavey flat, then tweaked and experimented with the pedal for hours. Guess what? My ending tone sounds pretty much exactly like the flat Peavey. Interesting, but annnoying!

 

[songwriter21]

Another thing, the key for me is to find as close to a sound on the pedal as to what my live rig sounds like...my beloved GK 1001-RB. I have it set for a very clean and kick-you-in-the-chest, modern hi-fi tone. I've had it repaired A LOT, but won't sell it, because it's sounded sooooo good the last 7-8 years.

 

[JoelFT]

I just did some more A/Bing and, while the overall tone and eq is the same over all of my various amps, preamp and pedals I think I still prefer the overall sound from the SVP more. There is a roundness and weight to the note that is very subtle but is definitely there. It's really more of a 3D quality that the Ampeg has that the others do not. The REDDI I record with at the studio also has the same quality for obvious reasons. Hmm, maybe there is a purchase on the horizon.

 

[BassHappy]

I've noticed a few things in relation to tone:

First, less is almost always more. Especially when it comes to your amplification's EQ settings. My dream is to one day do what Joel just described and never look back.

Second, remember where you started before you start fiddling; once you find the "perfect" settings, go back to "zero" and listen - bet you are either right back where you started from, or you like "zero" better.

Lastly, the more you "chase" it, the further away it gets - we have a local guy, good player, nice dude, has several of our basses. He has had a habit over the ten years I've known him (I've been here HOW long now?!?!?! ) of getting a new bass, playing it for a few months, then convincing himself he needs a different preamp. Getting the new preamp, loving it for a few months, then convincing himself to get another "better" one. Loving THAT one for a few months, then putting the original preamp back in his bass and realizing it was what he was looking for to start with. Now, when he gets a new bass, I just tell him "You've already put 3 different preamps in your bass, and you love this one. Right?"

The most effective tone control in your entire signal chain is always the same: your right hand. Second one? Blend control between the pickups.

Gard

Thanks for this.....Does my heart good to read it.

You are so right - when we first recorded with Ken Scott he always told me that if anything needed more than a pinch - say 2 or 3 db of EQ - you were doing something else wrong. I have always lived by that. Before I met Keith, I used PRS #11 exclusively for 21 years. It was the only bass I owned. Of course, it had a nine position rotary switch with NO tone control so I have never been much a tone or onboard EQ guy to begin with.

To me all EQ is good for is causing notes to spike or drop along the fretboard. Using compression afterwards is TOTALLY self defeating. You have spent years teaching your hands how to play with immaculate dynamics, why in the world would you flatten out those wonderful expressions? This is where the humanity is in your playing. Ken always sparingly used peak limiting on my bass ONLY to make sure there was zero distortion when I dug in hard - and after all, he recorded everyone from Mahavishnu, Jeff Beck, Billy Cobham and Stanley Clarke, not to mention, The Beatles, Bowie and Supertramp.

It's funny - even as a young player, the only time I reached for the bass control on my practice amp was when someone was in the next room and I was trying to keep the volume down. I learned early on - if the sound isn't there - don't reach for the EQ, reach for the volume knob. It's amazing how much better the tone will get when you keep it close to flat and push the gain up to normal "playing with the drummer" volume levels. If it isn't barking at that point - you have the wrong amp. Don't muck it up with EQ or compression or the overuse of your onboard tone knobs. It's never never land. The bass - if it is a good one - should already have a sacred purity in and of itself. Honor it.

Of course, if you are dealing with adverse room frequencies, that is another matter entirely - and EQ can definitely be a life saver. The magic is in knowing the difference.

My guess is that few will agree - just wanted to throw in my two cents....

 

[Gard]

Even more on the topic, a bit of a "story".

Back it my "BR*" days, when I worked at an unnamed bass-centric retailer in a Central Florida city for a few years, I got to know a fella by the name of David Nordschow. Nice guy, not a player per se, but someone with both an interest in our fair instrument, and the knowledge to do good stuff for it. At the time, he ran a little outfit called Eden Amplification, you might have heard of it .

Once he was visiting, and my rig was in the shop for some reason or another, and he was noticing it had 2 of his cabinets, and his excellent power amplifier, but it had "another manufacturer's" preamp in the rack (specifically, Demeter HBP-1). He questioned me as to why I didn't have the Eden Navigator in there. My response will sum up my philosophy neatly:

"Too many f***ing knobs."



I did elaborate a bit, and he listened intently, and he "got" where I was coming from - mainly my previous post that between my primary tone controls (right hand, blend knob) and my secondary tone controls (3-band preamp built into bass), I had all of the EQ I would ever want or need, and all "more knobs" would do is give me the ability to f**k up my tone, not make it better.

He then jokingly said he was going to go back to his workshop and create a preamp with an input, a volume control, the ability to take a microampere signal from the bass and raise it enough to drive the input section of a power amp, and and output jack. He was going to name it "The Gard".

I was amused by this (and quite thankful he was not serious! ).

About a year later, the newest version of his power amp showed up, and he made a point of telling me that the input level on the amp was sensitive enough to be driven with an active bass guitar - eliminating the need for a preamp if so desired. I can't claim to be the inspiration for it, but who knows. I never asked, just said "good idea!". Never bought it, sadly, because I just can't justify carrying around a 1200 watt amp these days.

"Less is more" indeed.

(*Before Roscoe)

 

[Chef]

"eq, etc."

I almost always use eq on an amp as a subtractive thing to fix problems; and do any mild additive stuff at the bass.
If the an amp/speaker/rig doesn't sound right to start with, I just move it right on out of my toolkit.
If a bass doesn't speak to me right off the bat, no point wrestling with it.
Joining TB set me down a really expensive path of rig experimentation; which has been settled for while now. Thankfully

 

[Gard]

"eq, etc."

I almost always use eq on an amp as a subtractive thing to fix problems; and do any mild additive stuff at the bass.
If the an amp/speaker/rig doesn't sound right to start with, I just move it right on out of my toolkit.
Joining TB set me down a really expensive path of rig experimentation; which has been settled for while now. Thankfully

Yup.

In my present day gig, I tend to advise players that are a bit unsure of exactly what they're looking for to "shoot for too bright" for this very reason. Simply put, it's better for your bass to have a bit too much spank & clank when the EQ is "flat", because you can always easily subtract highs. If you get a bass that ends up too dark/murky sounding and have to add highs, it starts to instantly sound "off", at least to my ears.

All that said, Jimmy Haslip takes his main LG 3006 and cranks all three of his controls to 10. >.<

 

[Chef]

I've heard Nate Watts does this with his Alleva LG as well....whatever he's doing seems to work pretty well for him........

 

[Gard]

I've heard Nate Watts does this with his Alleva LG as well....whatever he's doing seems to work pretty well for him........

I would say these are exceptions rather than a rule. Both are strong players that can control their tone exceptionally well with their PRIMARY tone controls - their hands.

 

[SteveC]

What I have discovered is that most amps and preamps have a certain eq curve built in and it just gets in the way for me. So, unconsciously, I have been adjusting the eq's of my various preamps so as to make them sound flat and let the natural sound of my bass come through.

My SKB already sounds perfect and doesn't need coloration. Fortunately, our PA is pretty darn flat as well. So, I am now seriously considering just running my bass into a DI then to the board with no other eq or preamp and leaving the PA's eq flat except to change for the room.

I play all my gigs (it's all church these days but occasionally a fill in with a band that uses IEM as well) this way.

Bass --> JDI --> FOH/IEM

I run my Century's basically flat as well (the fretted gets a slight bass bump, the fruitless gets a slight mid bump) and let the sound guy mix it for the room.

I use my little Genz Benz rig for practicing at home, but I have been debating using a "headphone amp" type of rig for practicing at home as I love the sound of my bass uncolored by an additional preamp. I don't have 6 way ear buds, but I do like the sound of my Westone UM-2's.

First, less is almost always more.

Second, remember where you started before you start fiddling; once you find the "perfect" settings, go back to "zero" and listen - bet you are either right back where you started from, or you like "zero" better.

Lastly, the more you "chase" it, the further away it gets - we have a local guy, good player, nice dude, has several of our basses. He has had a habit over the ten years I've known him (I've been here HOW long now?!?!?! ) of getting a new bass, playing it for a few months, then convincing himself he needs a different preamp. Getting the new preamp, loving it for a few months, then convincing himself to get another "better" one. Loving THAT one for a few months, then putting the original preamp back in his bass and realizing it was what he was looking for to start with. Now, when he gets a new bass, I just tell him "You've already put 3 different preamps in your bass, and you love this one. Right?"

The most effective tone control in your entire signal chain is always the same: your right hand. Second one? Blend control between the pickups.

- Less is always more.
- This is VERY often true.
- I am not the guy Gard is referencing here, but I could be, just not all with Roscoe basses. Realistically, I could have "stopped" a long time ago and been happy with my basses and tone. I'd be playing 2-3 G&L basses as that's the best that was available locally. Not Roscoe, but certainly gigable basses. Sometimes the "chase" is fun, and educational. Sometimes it's just a chase.
- I find I can make significant changes to my tone by changing right hand placement and the blend control. The right hand is the big one. Also your left hand on a fretless.

 

[blindrabbit]

Yup.

In my present day gig, I tend to advise players that are a bit unsure of exactly what they're looking for to "shoot for too bright" for this very reason. Simply put, it's better for your bass to have a bit too much spank & clank when the EQ is "flat", because you can always easily subtract highs. If you get a bass that ends up too dark/murky sounding and have to add highs, it starts to instantly sound "off", at least to my ears.

All that said, Jimmy Haslip takes his main LG 3006 and cranks all three of his controls to 10. >.<

I have to agree with this. Over time, I've found that I really prefer and enjoy to have basses that sound pretty aggressive, and then I tame that with pedals or at the amp. It just seems to give more to work with. It was a little daunting when first using this approach, and I found it difficult to manage the tone coming off the bass, but it was just a matter of getting used to it, and then after that I found my tone to be the best it even has been. I actually use very little EQ on the bass itself, even though I prefer having instruments with active preamps on them. I wouldn't say that I use a lot of EQ elsewhere either, my settings tend to be pretty subtle compared to what I hear other people using, although I will admit to using a lot of pedals.

Anyway, it is for reasons like this that I am REALLY looking forward to getting my Roscoe, and adding another growly, aggressive beast to my stable.

 

[songwriter21]

I've heard Nate Watts does this with his Alleva LG as well....whatever he's doing seems to work pretty well for him........

Speaking of Mr. Watts, this is me meeting the legend at Winter NAMM, '09, at the Samson-Hartke Booth...hell of a nice guy.

 

[SteveC]

I've tried the "Jimmy Haslip" turn me all to 10 thing and it was a different but cool tone. Need to adjust some gain structure as well. It did lend itself a bit to those Yellowjackets licks.

Not sure I can get away with it but he certainly can.

 

[JOME77]

It's been a while since I've been on TB. It's actually been a while since I've been on a bass ......
Just too busy these days.

I did just purchase the upgrade to Reason 8 and finally installed it and got it authorized this week. It actually made me get excited enough to pull my Koa/mahogany Roscoe 3005 out of the case!

Here's a short and simple soundtrack recorded with it (using Reason 8) which reminded me of how much I love the Demeter/Roscoe Bart/Mahogany combination!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[JoelFT]

Love those synths brother! And the slapping, GASP!

 

[Ryan L.]

It's been a while since I've been on TB. It's actually been a while since I've been on a bass ......
Just too busy these days.
]

Same here, except for the bass part. Been playing a lot, and have a pretty busy summer coming up.

Ended up buying another PA system, and another trailer (something I said I was done with......meh). But had to let 2 Roscoes go down the road to help finance it all, so that part sucked. But, I do still have my main two, so that's all that matters I guess. And I've heard there's a store down in Blacksburg, VA that sells the things, so I can always buy another if I so choose (although I'm pretty happy and content with the two I have).

I have no real point to this post, other than stopping in to say "hey" to all my fellow Roscoeheads.

 

[SteveC]

Danny said you were selling a couple. What did you keep?
Sounds like he's ready to sell his vintage jazz and order a custom Roscoe.

 

[Ryan L.]

Danny said you were selling a couple. What did you keep?
Sounds like he's ready to sell his vintage jazz and order a custom Roscoe.

I've been having extensive conversations with Danny about ordering a new custom Roscoe. He's going to try my two out to compare the J pickups to soapbars one day soon here (even though my J is kind of a bastard, with Nordie single coils and Nordie preamp, not a normal Roscoe J at all). I gave him Gard's number at the shop, too, and gave him Greg's info as well.

I kept my two fretted 5's (the ones you played way back when you stopped by to compare pickup combos). Had to let the fretless and the 6 string go, regrettably.

But I now have a slamming, 20,000 watt PA system again, and a brand new 7x16 trailer.

 

[dylanjohnson]

Yup.

In my present day gig, I tend to advise players that are a bit unsure of exactly what they're looking for to "shoot for too bright" for this very reason. Simply put, it's better for your bass to have a bit too much spank & clank when the EQ is "flat", because you can always easily subtract highs. If you get a bass that ends up too dark/murky sounding and have to add highs, it starts to instantly sound "off", at least to my ears.

All that said, Jimmy Haslip takes his main LG 3006 and cranks all three of his controls to 10. >.<

Wow, does he really crank his 3 band to 10? How does he keep everything from clipping?

 

[JoelFT]

Gain way down.