Sadowsky/Warwick Announcement Video

[PRS-Man23]

I guess we won’t have a definitive answer on the topics at hand, until we are able to get our hands on the new model/tiers...
I see truth in a lot of the statements made so far in this thread, and I also understand both sides of the argument.

There are those who are passionate about Sadowsky and his custom instruments(Both NYC & Japan CS) I also understand that this may blur the lines between what is a “real” Sadowsky, and what will ultimately be a licensed product with his name on the headstock. I’m sure there will be many distinguishing design touches that will separate the tiers, and we won’t know exactly how/what they did until we get more clarity on the instruments, close-ups, demos etc...

I also understand that not all of us are fortunate enough to afford these super high-end, custom built Basses. Some may say that’s the prestige of owning one of Roger’s instruments...that they are working/pro musicians tools, not beginner instruments.

But here’s the thing...
Nearly ever brand is doing this, and most are succeeding!
I’ve seen Pro musicians using Sire, PRS SE, MTD design, Squier, Epiphone and the list goes on. For some, it’s more than enough...
For others, they want the best money can buy.
In these modern times, anything can be made on nearly any continent. It’s a matter of what is Spec’d, what tolerances are held & what quality control processes are in place.

My own personal opinion, I own USA PRS guitars & Basses as well as SE models. Same goes for Fender/Squier, Warwick/Rockbass and others.
Guess what, I love and appreciate them all. I’ve also played gigs with EVERY one of them!

At the end of the day, some guys/gals may want to get their foot in the door with a low-tier sadowsky, and what His instruments have to offer, apart from the other “F” inspired offerings in the market.
That’s completely fine with me! I’m sure they will be really nice instruments, and look forward to trying one out myself.

And to those who see this as affecting their re-sale, or dilution of the brand....then your clearly in it for the wrong reasons. What good does that do, other than to boast about your super high-end instrument? Sure, if I had the money, I would absolutely love to own a real MTD or Sadowsky, but how about we just PLAY the damn things, and enjoy making music! That’s what it’s all about....

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I guess we won’t have a definitive answer on the topics at hand, until we are able to get our hands on the new model/tiers...
I see truth in a lot of the statements made so far in this thread, and I also understand both sides of the argument.

There are those who are passionate about Sadowsky and his custom instruments(Both NYC & Japan CS) I also understand that this may blur the lines between what is a “real” Sadowsky, and what will ultimately be a licensed product with his name on the headstock. I’m sure there will be many distinguishing design touches that will separate the tiers, and we won’t know exactly how/what they did until we get more clarity on the instruments, close-ups, demos etc...

I also understand that not all of us are fortunate enough to afford these super high-end, custom built Basses. Some may say that’s the prestige of owning one of Roger’s instruments...that they are working/pro musicians tools, not beginner instruments.

But here’s the thing...
Nearly ever brand is doing this, and most are succeeding!
I’ve seen Pro musicians using Sire, PRS SE, MTD design, Squier, Epiphone and the list goes on. For some, it’s more than enough...
For others, they want the best money can buy.
In these modern times, anything can be made on nearly any continent. It’s a matter of what is Spec’d, what tolerances are held & what quality control processes are in place.

My own personal opinion, I own USA PRS guitars & Basses as well as SE models. Same goes for Fender/Squier, Warwick/Rockbass and others.
Guess what, I love and appreciate them all. I’ve also played gigs with EVERY one of them!

At the end of the day, some guys/gals may want to get their foot in the door with a low-tier sadowsky, and what His instruments have to offer, apart from the other “F” inspired offerings in the market.
That’s completely fine with me! I’m sure they will be really nice instruments, and look forward to trying one out myself.

And to those who see this as affecting their re-sale, or dilution of the brand....then your clearly in it for the wrong reasons. What good does that do, other than to boast about your super high-end instrument? Sure, if I had the money, I would absolutely love to own a real MTD or Sadowsky, but how about we just PLAY the damn things, and enjoy making music! That’s what it’s all about....

I have read posts where people talked about brand dilution but if a person owns a NYC, Metro, old Tokyo Sadowsky, MetroExpress, etc., your bass is still the bass you paid for. Somebody who doesn’t know the brand won’t know the difference between your bass and a cheaper version, but why should that matter?

 

[bucephylus]

I could have picked up a couple of Sadowsky Tokyo basses. I passed on them because I was told that the bodies are bigger. That just seems odd to me. Maybe I was given incorrect information?

The bodies use the same templates, but, the TYO basses tend to be a little heftier, because they are not chambered.

 

[ElMon]

It's very easy to install a passive tone knob, or to have someone do it. That's all the "VTC" is; fancy marketing speak for "passive tone knob".

Dude no offense, but I've owned a truck load of Sadowky basses. Well aware of what the most important knob on my bass is. Surprised mine isn't worn down to a knob on my Sadowsk(i)

To your point, it's not too much more in actual costs (material/labor) to wire them into a drop-in assembly. Roger already has that offering I believe, to supe up a Fender.

Also, I'm sure that more most folks who do just fine without a VTC won't really care all that much.

 

[bucephylus]

There was also a difference between the NYC Shop wiring and the TYO wiring. The latter were done by a precision automated soldering robot, while the NYC were hand wired. They both produced excellent results; but, I found the Metro wiring to be sometimes problematic from a rework standpoint, because the precision was such that there was literally no excess wire at all to “play” with. The NYC Shop wiring was very user friendly.

So, one Q I’d be interested in is whether the German Masterbuilt’s will be hand wired or robotically wired.

BTW, I’m also going to be curious what happens to some of the NYC shop folks. It would be a pity to lose some folks like Lisa in the process.

 

[ElMon]

The thing is though, if you lusted after a Sadowsky, you were dreaming of those custom shop basses. Buying a Chinese bass from a mass production line with "Sadowsky" on the headstock isn't the same thing.

If you want a Ken Smith bass, then a Ken Smith design wont cut it, for example. These new Sadowsky basses are a dilution of the brand and it's totally Roger's right to do that. However, everyone getting excited at the prospect of owning a "$1000 Sadowsky" should probably temper their excitement and remember that it's not the same thing as the true object of their desire, the real Sadowsky basses, as made by Roger in his shop.

There are varying levels of brand dilution. The cheaper you go on production and final sale RRP, the lower the standards of workmanship and materials used. The Japanese basses were themselves a dilution, just nowhere near as extreme as this Chinese venture with Warwick.

The reason that 'worksmanship and materials' is cheaper in China/Indonesia doesn't have to mean, and often does not mean less than. It's cost of material and cheaper labor rates.

I've had 316SS parts made both in the United States and then (sadly) had to outsource them to a shop in China. The materials/level of quality was identical. I have the knowledge of calipers/radius gauges to check, and I even sent first articles to a place with a spectrometer. Identical. It's just the Chinese can get it to market for a 1/3rd of the price, including shipping.

If you're talking about the Metro line out of Tokyo (full disclosure I never touched a Metro Express) it was definitely not a step down. Go to the Sadowsky thread. Many of us do/have had in the past owned both NYC's and Metros concurrently. They feel/sound identical, unless like me you're a freak for something like Brazilian RW.

The MTD offshore basses I've played were pretty consistently amazing, so what you list doesn't have to happen. Management/shop culture/quality management systems/etc.

 

[FunkHead]

The bodies use the same templates, but, the TYO basses tend to be a little heftier, because they are not chambered.

I am talking about Tokyo vs. Metro. Neither is chambered. Supposedly, Tokyo have bigger body than Metro. As noted above there were Tokyo’s made with “Dinky” bodies. They are just hard to find.

 

[bucephylus]

I am talking about Tokyo vs. Metro. Neither is chambered. Supposedly, Tokyo have bigger body than Metro. As noted above there were Tokyo’s made with “Dinky” bodies. They are just hard to find.

Ahhh, that’s mainly the difference between the so-called Ultra Vintage (larger Fender spec) and the Standard (dinky spec) bods. I have no idea what the production fractions would have been.

 

[bass12]

I have read posts where people talked about brand dilution but if a person owns a NYC, Metro, old Tokyo Sadowsky, MetroExpress, etc., your bass is still the bass you paid for. Somebody who doesn’t know the brand won’t know the difference between your bass and a cheaper version, but why should that matter?

Perhaps it shouldn’t matter, but it most likely will to a lot of people. It’s human nature: we tend to value what is scarce more than what is readily available. Sometimes the scarcity factor alone counts for more than the actual item (pearls, diamonds and Louis Vuitton handbags are pretty stupid things to value if you think about it).

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Perhaps it shouldn’t matter, but it most likely will to a lot of people. It’s human nature: we tend to value what is scarce more than what is readily available. Sometimes the scarcity factor alone counts for more than the actual item (pearls, diamonds and Louis Vuitton handbags are pretty stupid things to value if you think about it).

Oh I understand why people feel how they do, I just feel that a little logic never hurts.

 

[PRS-Man23]

Take Paul Reed Smith (The Company) for example....

When they first introduced the SE line, it was due to Carlos Santana’s persistence on wanting to get his guitars into the hands of younger players.

I’m sure at the time, it was seen as a bad move to a lot of people (Even some in house) Concerns about brand dilution, lost revenue, confusion and an overall “sell-out” of their core philosophy.

Fast forward nearly 20 years, and PRS cannot keep up with demand for ANY of their lines (SE, S2, CE/Bolt-On, Core, Private Stock) The wait list gets longer and longer by the week. This is a massive operation, but they insist on quality over quantity.

Sure, when your in the volume business there will undoubtedly be some duds here and there...but for the most part if overseen and managed correctly, it’s amazing what you can get for your money in these times.

I have a Chinese Dingwall that is one of the most finely crafted instruments I’ve ever owned.. I’m sure the “real” Dingwalls are Amazing, but I just don’t have that kind of disposable income...

It’s lovely to have custom instruments built for you by these beloved luthiers, but most of us here could only dream of such a luxury. Let us rock a $1,000 Sadowsky and be proud of it!

 

[ClassicJazz]

Something to think about.....I've always been a big fan of Japanese basses. As Roger says in one of his videos, the Japanese consumer are very demanding, thus the high quality of those instruments.

With no more Sadowsky Japan, that may be a boost for companies like Bacchus, Atelier Z, Moon, Xotic in this country.

I currently own a Craft Series Bacchus 5 String Jazz which is made in Japan. I paid around $800 for it new. In regards to quality, fit and finish and play ability, it is every bit as good as a Sadowsky Metro I owned some years back. The main difference is the model I bought was passive. But I installed an Audere preamp in it and with stock Bacchus pickups the bass sounds absolutely amazing!

 

[hibass]

I am very interested in how the German Metro’s will compare to the MIJ’s.
No interest at all in the express line.

I think the German made Metros will be easily on the same level with the Japanese ones.Guess (but hope not) the Metro Express (made in China) series will lack those features (such as graphite bars in the neck?) that made the Japanese Metro Express an outstanding quality.It is time to get the last MIJ Metro expresses asap before it is too late

 

[baxter_x]

Damn, this Sadowsky-gate has been flaming the entire bass playing community since a several weeks now!
I feel like it's a hurricane in a glass of water.

 

[StayLow]

I guess we won’t have a definitive answer on the topics at hand, until we are able to get our hands on the new model/tiers...
I see truth in a lot of the statements made so far in this thread, and I also understand both sides of the argument.

There are those who are passionate about Sadowsky and his custom instruments(Both NYC & Japan CS) I also understand that this may blur the lines between what is a “real” Sadowsky, and what will ultimately be a licensed product with his name on the headstock. I’m sure there will be many distinguishing design touches that will separate the tiers, and we won’t know exactly how/what they did until we get more clarity on the instruments, close-ups, demos etc...

I also understand that not all of us are fortunate enough to afford these super high-end, custom built Basses. Some may say that’s the prestige of owning one of Roger’s instruments...that they are working/pro musicians tools, not beginner instruments.

But here’s the thing...
Nearly ever brand is doing this, and most are succeeding!
I’ve seen Pro musicians using Sire, PRS SE, MTD design, Squier, Epiphone and the list goes on. For some, it’s more than enough...
For others, they want the best money can buy.
In these modern times, anything can be made on nearly any continent. It’s a matter of what is Spec’d, what tolerances are held & what quality control processes are in place.

My own personal opinion, I own USA PRS guitars & Basses as well as SE models. Same goes for Fender/Squier, Warwick/Rockbass and others.
Guess what, I love and appreciate them all. I’ve also played gigs with EVERY one of them!

At the end of the day, some guys/gals may want to get their foot in the door with a low-tier sadowsky, and what His instruments have to offer, apart from the other “F” inspired offerings in the market.
That’s completely fine with me! I’m sure they will be really nice instruments, and look forward to trying one out myself.

And to those who see this as affecting their re-sale, or dilution of the brand....then your clearly in it for the wrong reasons. What good does that do, other than to boast about your super high-end instrument? Sure, if I had the money, I would absolutely love to own a real MTD or Sadowsky, but how about we just PLAY the damn things, and enjoy making music! That’s what it’s all about....

Depends what you mean by "custom". You can choose from among the colors they offer ... and that's about it. They're also not "hand made" as many call them, unless you realllllly stretch that term.

The "Vintage Tone Control" is just a passive tone knob, same as Fenders have had since the 1950's. Useful? Very much so. Straight talk? You decide.

As for them being for working pros, if you know any full-time pro musicians most have never seen $5000 much less spent that much on a bass. Most have never even heard of Sadowsky if they're not TALK-bass members. Other than the DB side, there are very few full-time pros on message boards. Instruments in this strata are primarily for people with a lot of room on their credit cards who want to post pics of them online to brag while they're slacking off at their day job. Of course there are some exceptions but those don't disprove the rule.

I've owned and used a NYC for at least 10 years and think it's a great bass. It's also just a bass that's made extremely well. You don't need to spend so much for that though. Other than the very low weight for a 5'er, which is worth a lot to me personally, it's no better than some basses I have which cost well below $1000 new - some of which are made in Asian factories and are flawless. Ask people who bought the original Lakland Skylines, to make just one example.

 

[mtdkingstonheir]

DW, as Marcus Miller has said, kids aren’t the ones buying Sires. You bought one and let it go. Lots of adults, like me, who don’t have $2K disposable cash are interested in $1K Sadowsky’s even if they are a step down in some aspects.

Well said, Dr. C. I'm a member of the "working poor" and would at least like to be able to play/demo a $1K Sadowsky.

 

[mtdkingstonheir]

I guess we won’t have a definitive answer on the topics at hand, until we are able to get our hands on the new model/tiers...
I see truth in a lot of the statements made so far in this thread, and I also understand both sides of the argument.

There are those who are passionate about Sadowsky and his custom instruments(Both NYC & Japan CS) I also understand that this may blur the lines between what is a “real” Sadowsky, and what will ultimately be a licensed product with his name on the headstock. I’m sure there will be many distinguishing design touches that will separate the tiers, and we won’t know exactly how/what they did until we get more clarity on the instruments, close-ups, demos etc...

I also understand that not all of us are fortunate enough to afford these super high-end, custom built Basses. Some may say that’s the prestige of owning one of Roger’s instruments...that they are working/pro musicians tools, not beginner instruments.

But here’s the thing...
Nearly ever brand is doing this, and most are succeeding!
I’ve seen Pro musicians using Sire, PRS SE, MTD design, Squier, Epiphone and the list goes on. For some, it’s more than enough...
For others, they want the best money can buy.
In these modern times, anything can be made on nearly any continent. It’s a matter of what is Spec’d, what tolerances are held & what quality control processes are in place.

My own personal opinion, I own USA PRS guitars & Basses as well as SE models. Same goes for Fender/Squier, Warwick/Rockbass and others.
Guess what, I love and appreciate them all. I’ve also played gigs with EVERY one of them!

At the end of the day, some guys/gals may want to get their foot in the door with a low-tier sadowsky, and what His instruments have to offer, apart from the other “F” inspired offerings in the market.
That’s completely fine with me! I’m sure they will be really nice instruments, and look forward to trying one out myself.

And to those who see this as affecting their re-sale, or dilution of the brand....then your clearly in it for the wrong reasons. What good does that do, other than to boast about your super high-end instrument? Sure, if I had the money, I would absolutely love to own a real MTD or Sadowsky, but how about we just PLAY the damn things, and enjoy making music! That’s what it’s all about....

PRS man - well said.

 

[DWBass]

Well said, Dr. C. I'm a member of the "working poor" and would at least like to be able to play/demo a $1K Sadowsky.

I'm quite sure the bass will play and sound nice, no doubt. But those of us who know and appreciate the legacy of Sadowsky and know better........do we 'want' a watered down Sadowsky with cheap Chinese made hardware? Then you have the masses who have no idea what a Sadowsky is and may just ignore the brand if sold in GC and similar stores. This is why I ask...how are they going to be marketed?! At the risk of sounding like a broken record.........I personally don't want a cheap Sadowsky. I'm ok with the Germany made basses.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'm quite sure the bass will play and sound nice, no doubt. But those of us who know and appreciate the legacy of Sadowsky and know better........do we 'want' a watered down Sadowsky with cheap Chinese made hardware? Then you have the masses who have no idea what a Sadowsky is and may just ignore the brand if sold in GC and similar stores. This is why I ask...how are they going to be marketed?! At the risk of sounding like a broken record.........I personally don't want a cheap Sadowsky. I'm ok with the Germany made basses.

That’s cool, the multiple levels of production will let you get what you want.

 

[Dave Hill]

The Sadowsky NAMM booth looks very Warwick-y.