Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Sadowsky's amp!!!!!! ?????
- Thread starter maurilio
- Start date
So being built in Denmark, would us Euros be able to buy direct from Koch to:
1. Save shipping from EU-US and back to the EU
2. Avoid the currency conversion
3. Avoid paying (re)import duty on an item that is exempt due to EU maufacture!
1. Save shipping from EU-US and back to the EU
2. Avoid the currency conversion
3. Avoid paying (re)import duty on an item that is exempt due to EU maufacture!
Both the trace V4 and the Orange heads are 200 all tube watts, and I haven't heard people complaining about a lack of volume with those...
Ps. how loud is the V4 in comparison to most other amps?
Ps. how loud is the V4 in comparison to most other amps?
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,953
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Mike Dimin said:Tom,
when you get it, I'd like you try the following experiment - with your right hand lift up your WW Ultra, then with your 2 other hands lift up the SA200 and tell me which is heavier.
How about I do that while balancing the iAMP 800 on my head!?!
Actually, Roger says it's something like 40 lbs, which is pretty darn light for an all-tube head. My Eden VT-300A is fairly light (again, for an all-tube head), so that 40 lb estimate might be pretty close.I think of the SA200 as (potentially) an excellent tube head. The WWU and iAMP 800 are top notch solid state heads. While there is some overlap in their capabilities, I tend to think of them as different classes of gear, and each has its place. Of course, in my specific case, it seems like a whole lot of items have "their place", but then again, I am more than a little sick with this GAS thing...
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,953
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
There is too much distance between the low end tone controls and the "mids". I know I'm not an amp designer, but I would put 3 or 4 equal range parametric tone controls in between the lows which could be at 50-60 hz with a "deep" button to push 40 or less and a treble of 8000-10000 hz as most cabinets with a tweeter can be affected by such a knob.
The 3 equal range parametric controls with cut and boost would be from around 80 to 600ish hz.
Having "expensive" transformers or other components doesn't always equal better or even good tone or reliability. The reasons in my mind that the Aguilar 359 went defunct were simple....too expensive, crappy value, not enough volume for the moolah, still wasn't a lite weight. Sunn/Fender 300T, secondary/used market Ampet SVT's an SVTII Pro's, Mesa 400+'s and 400's, Eden 300, Trace Elliott v6 and v8, especially used, can be had for 750 to 1500 and all have significantly more wattage and no complaints that I've heard about reliability wise.
Koch makes the Eden....I mean, come on guys, do you really think that the Sadowsky200 is gonna make you sound better than any of these other heads? I understand the branding in Japan thang, but the reason this is not being introduced in the US is that it would take a complete nutcase to buy this unit, BASED on the Japanese pricing in US dollars. Now, if it came down to $2000, I could see a case for the priviledged few who are already paying $3500 for their NYC basses, to buy these heads. But with those tone controls, and even with the means and a bad case of GAS, I won't be the first in line for sure. JMHO, don't knock me for being honest. Do what you want.
LKaye
The 3 equal range parametric controls with cut and boost would be from around 80 to 600ish hz.
Having "expensive" transformers or other components doesn't always equal better or even good tone or reliability. The reasons in my mind that the Aguilar 359 went defunct were simple....too expensive, crappy value, not enough volume for the moolah, still wasn't a lite weight. Sunn/Fender 300T, secondary/used market Ampet SVT's an SVTII Pro's, Mesa 400+'s and 400's, Eden 300, Trace Elliott v6 and v8, especially used, can be had for 750 to 1500 and all have significantly more wattage and no complaints that I've heard about reliability wise.
Koch makes the Eden....I mean, come on guys, do you really think that the Sadowsky200 is gonna make you sound better than any of these other heads? I understand the branding in Japan thang, but the reason this is not being introduced in the US is that it would take a complete nutcase to buy this unit, BASED on the Japanese pricing in US dollars. Now, if it came down to $2000, I could see a case for the priviledged few who are already paying $3500 for their NYC basses, to buy these heads. But with those tone controls, and even with the means and a bad case of GAS, I won't be the first in line for sure. JMHO, don't knock me for being honest. Do what you want.
LKaye
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,953
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Larry Kaye said:
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Tom.
P.S.
Don't worry, Larry. I know I'm a nutcase, but I'm comfortable with that!
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,953
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
BTW, I did spend some time discussing the EQ points that Roger chose, and believe me, he did choose them carefully after much consideration. I think that Roger's track record for producing musical-sounding preamps is fairly well established, and obviously, we all have our own preferences on what is musical and what is not. I don't tend to use a lot of EQ, myself, but for the EQ needs that I might anticipate, I actually really like the values that Roger has chosen (for an all-tube amp).
Tom.
Tom.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,516
- 19,953
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Mike Dimin said:
Let me look for my notes (yes, I took hand-written notes during our conversation!). Basically, we talked about what makes for a musical EQ and we talked about the ideal situation where no EQ is needed, and you hear the sound of your instrument played through a competent rig that allows you to really hear the instrument. Of course, we discussed the fact that Roger's basses and many other instruments have on-board tone controls, but we also talked about passive axes (some of which also sound great with little or no EQ). We further discussed the fact that a lot of times when you need EQ, it is to correct for the characteristics of the room or stage, and I think that his EQ points are well chosen for such purpose. Yes, a fully parametric EQ is probably better at such tasks, but keep in mind that Roger was trying to keep the signal path as "pure" as possible, and employ a mix of passive and tube-driven EQ - thus minimizing the need for SS circuitry.
All of this is from memory, though. Let me find my notes and get back with some more details. The bottom line was, Roger wanted a musical EQ that did not "get in the way" of the inherent tone of the instrument.
Tom.
Yeah it's over the price range for mainstream appeal, but let's not knock it without trying it.
Kinda like saying the driving experience of a Porsche doesn't merit the price tag of $150k while you can get a similar feel from a $50k Corvette.
....it may be true for a lot, but it probably won't be true for enough...
</2 cents>
Kinda like saying the driving experience of a Porsche doesn't merit the price tag of $150k while you can get a similar feel from a $50k Corvette.
....it may be true for a lot, but it probably won't be true for enough...
</2 cents>
I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but if it were up to me, the amp would only have a volume knob.
If you want a parametric EQ, add one. If you want a compressor, add one. If you want more knobs, bells and whistles, add them. If you want a lightweight practical amp for gigging, you should not even consider the SA200.
This amp is an expression of who I am and what I hear. I make no claims or boasts whatsoever. For the few of you who choose to try it, I hope you will be pleased. If you are not pleased, return it for a refund.
Roger
If you want a parametric EQ, add one. If you want a compressor, add one. If you want more knobs, bells and whistles, add them. If you want a lightweight practical amp for gigging, you should not even consider the SA200.
This amp is an expression of who I am and what I hear. I make no claims or boasts whatsoever. For the few of you who choose to try it, I hope you will be pleased. If you are not pleased, return it for a refund.
Roger
The problem for me the last few months has been to decide whether my next purchase was going to be an amp or a bass...
This doesn't help me at all...
Looks like it'll be Sadowsky though.
This doesn't help me at all...
Looks like it'll be Sadowsky though.
it would only need one knob too. I would make sure that the head is designed to sound like how I want it to sound.
Tom B and to Roger Sadowsky....I'm in a respectful total disagreement, which I'm entitled to be, that I think the Sadowsky Preamp both on board his basses and as an outboard box are really off base frequency wise. It's totally unrealistic in the real world of gigging to have a single sound with nothing more than a couple of frequency boosts and cuts at the very bottom and top of the cabinet's useable range.
Now maybe in the sterile and real world of recording, having a preamp +- at 40hz and whatever Roger's high frequency boost / cut is right on when added to the adjusting by your sound/studio engineer, but I only play live. Based on my needs, both the Sadowsky (and many others...for example....Aguilar is just the same) preamp and the new tube amp, as is, would not be able to get me the adjustability I need.
I don't know where, if, or how often you play Tom, but outta my current pace of 50-60 gigs per year, we may repeat a club, party center, or hotel 30% of the gigs, leaving essentially 30+ gigs at 30 different venues year. Sorry but 40, 800 Hz and 3000 or 8000 hz are not the frequencies that I usually need to be boosted or cut in these venues to make my sound happen or to cut through the mix....they're too low and too high. There's absolutely nothing musical in my mind about a 600 to 800 hz boost or cut on an amp. And again, IMHO, there's nothing that 40 or 3000 hz can add to my tone with an on board the bass preamp.
Take a quick look at GK's amps.....lows 80, mids 250, hi mids, whatever, treble, whatever. It needs a 125 knob...that's the "punch" control on my rig, and the 250 on my bass is the icing on the cake.
So, respectfully yours, I prefer adjustability in the 60 100, 125, 200, and 250 ranges, partially on board the bass and overlapping with much more on the amp or outboard EQ.
Try to remember something ladies and gentlemen of the jury.....the utmost vast majority of bass players do not play high end basses or use boutiquish heads or cabinets. What one high end, and a great one at that, feels is the right frequencies to offer boost/cut on his active basses or his outboard or addon on board preamp are his opinion, not the majority of bass players. It wasn't proxied by the rest of the bass players, many of which have never read talkbass, Bass Player, bassgear.com, or even heard of 1/2 the stuff that you and I have owned and played through Tom.
The skinny is that what matters is what matters to me and my ears, not your's or Mr. Sadowsky's. If I love or hate his basses or not, or have never heard his tube head or not is not a problem nor issue with me. What is are the obvious holes in the frequency spectrum that my experience has shown me to have to be adjustable when playing multiple venues. A combination 40, 800, and 3000 don't cut it. Make the preamp a two or three dial, 40-800 adjustable boost, cut with volume control and a DI and 1/4 inch out, and I might be the first in line to buy it.
LKaye
Tom B and to Roger Sadowsky....I'm in a respectful total disagreement, which I'm entitled to be, that I think the Sadowsky Preamp both on board his basses and as an outboard box are really off base frequency wise. It's totally unrealistic in the real world of gigging to have a single sound with nothing more than a couple of frequency boosts and cuts at the very bottom and top of the cabinet's useable range.
Now maybe in the sterile and real world of recording, having a preamp +- at 40hz and whatever Roger's high frequency boost / cut is right on when added to the adjusting by your sound/studio engineer, but I only play live. Based on my needs, both the Sadowsky (and many others...for example....Aguilar is just the same) preamp and the new tube amp, as is, would not be able to get me the adjustability I need.
I don't know where, if, or how often you play Tom, but outta my current pace of 50-60 gigs per year, we may repeat a club, party center, or hotel 30% of the gigs, leaving essentially 30+ gigs at 30 different venues year. Sorry but 40, 800 Hz and 3000 or 8000 hz are not the frequencies that I usually need to be boosted or cut in these venues to make my sound happen or to cut through the mix....they're too low and too high. There's absolutely nothing musical in my mind about a 600 to 800 hz boost or cut on an amp. And again, IMHO, there's nothing that 40 or 3000 hz can add to my tone with an on board the bass preamp.
Take a quick look at GK's amps.....lows 80, mids 250, hi mids, whatever, treble, whatever. It needs a 125 knob...that's the "punch" control on my rig, and the 250 on my bass is the icing on the cake.
So, respectfully yours, I prefer adjustability in the 60 100, 125, 200, and 250 ranges, partially on board the bass and overlapping with much more on the amp or outboard EQ.
Try to remember something ladies and gentlemen of the jury.....the utmost vast majority of bass players do not play high end basses or use boutiquish heads or cabinets. What one high end, and a great one at that, feels is the right frequencies to offer boost/cut on his active basses or his outboard or addon on board preamp are his opinion, not the majority of bass players. It wasn't proxied by the rest of the bass players, many of which have never read talkbass, Bass Player, bassgear.com, or even heard of 1/2 the stuff that you and I have owned and played through Tom.
The skinny is that what matters is what matters to me and my ears, not your's or Mr. Sadowsky's. If I love or hate his basses or not, or have never heard his tube head or not is not a problem nor issue with me. What is are the obvious holes in the frequency spectrum that my experience has shown me to have to be adjustable when playing multiple venues. A combination 40, 800, and 3000 don't cut it. Make the preamp a two or three dial, 40-800 adjustable boost, cut with volume control and a DI and 1/4 inch out, and I might be the first in line to buy it.
LKaye
