Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[rockstarbassist]

I'd love to hear a stacked pair of 410.

I got to play through Biker4Him's 21012 sitting on top a 1210 (powered by a Read Purity and a Stewart W2.1)...WOW!
I think it could vibrate a person off a stage if they were just standing in front of it.

What would you prefer stacking together?? A 21012+1210 or 410+1210? Just curious, as I'm kinda indecisive as to where I should go with my rig next- 410 or 21012.

 

[popinfresh]

^^Why not a 1212 or another 1210?

 

[rockstarbassist]

^^Why not a 1212 or another 1210?

Options, options! I've had a show or two where I'd LIKE (not needed, however! ) to have a bigger cab. In one of my bands, we do a lot of Christian music, so we play some pretty dang-big auditoriums, and sometimes I have to be a good bit away from my cab, and not that my 1210 doesn't handle it, perfectly, I'd just like to have more cone space onstage. Then there's the non-PA gigs where I'd need a bigger 2-cab configuration. And trust me, a 70lb. cab ain't gonna be hurtin' me none! Both of them together wouldn't weigh as much as my smallest "big" cab (mesa 2x15). Crazy!

 

[John D Harris]

What would you prefer stacking together?? A 21012+1210 or 410+1210? Just curious, as I'm kinda indecisive as to where I should go with my rig next- 410 or 21012.

For my tastes, the 410 + 1210.

The 21012 + 1210 is going to have a heftier, thicker low end.
A lot of people really like that type of tone.

I prefer tight and punchy. To me, one 12" gives plenty of low end heft (with the Schroeders).

Buy based on your tonal preferences.

I would have a hard time choosing between a pair of 410 and a 410 + 21012 combination though.

 

[rockstarbassist]

For my tastes, the 410 + 1210.

The 21012 + 1210 is going to have a heftier, thicker low end.
A lot of people really like that type of tone.

I prefer tight and punchy. To me, one 12" gives plenty of low end heft (with the Schroeders).

Buy based on your tonal preferences.

I would have a hard time choosing between a pair of 410 and a 410 + 21012 combination though.

I don't mind bigger, fuller low end, but with PA support, your subs are gonna push the thump no matter what. I've always liked having a bigger sound, and love dual 15's together with a smaller 110 or 210 cab, so maybe the 21012 is for me. But I'm getting to where I like more of a crisp, quicker, clearer response in my sound- and you're right, the 1210 has a lot of booty for bein' so small. So maybe a 410 is right up my alley.

With that choice, simple! 2x21012 + 2x410!

 

[DAcat]

Hey Schroeder fans-I'm thinking of getting a 1210 or 1212 or both and possibly powering it with a Yorkville XS 800H-8oo watts at 4 ohms...anyone tried them with a Schroeder cab yet?....someone must have by now...Peace...DAcat.

 

[rockstarbassist]

All I know is, I felt sorry as hell for the guy who had to pull his SVT-CL and 8x10 up those two flights of stairs last night in Austin!!!

It took me 4 trips (cab, rack, two basses, pedalboard and cable bag), and hardly got tired doing it.

I should've turned up on stage more also, as the soundguy was a call-in replacement, so I figured I'd get a little bit in my monitor, but that's ok. I messed with it a tad, but didn't want to mess up the PA mix inbetween songs and such. Still, I could hear it even if it wasn't as loud and authoritative as I'd of liked.

But the coolest thing was, I got to finally MIC my cab last night!!! I believe it was just an SM57, but damn, when it was just me playing I could hear it from the outside PA, and it sounded killer. 10 times better than going into a pansy direct box. As soon as I get a compressor, a great mic is next on the list. I've been wanting to get the full sound outta my Schro for some time now, and man this was great. We only play with 1 electric instrument (guitar), so on my side I'll usually be able to mic w/out bleeding over any. It sounded sooo good... I can't wait to get more!

 

[BurningSkies]

My Mesa400+/Schroeder 1212 rig is really paying off...we gigged 4 times between Thursday and Saturday. 2 of the shows were clubs (one small with a BIG PA and one medium sized with a decent pa) and two shows were outdoors (only vocals and guitar in the PA).

All four shows were a raging success. The 1212 beat out a Bergie 3x10 (?) easily on Friday night, and was plenty loud without distortion or headroom problems for both outdoor shows. There wasn't ANY time all weekend in any of the four settings that I found myself wishing for a bigger set up.


THE ONLY PROBLEM....

...is that I'm now fighting the urge to buy a second 1212. It's pretty obvious that I don't need one, but I guess it would be nice for those bigger outdoor shows...and one of our regular soundguys (who RAVES about my setup now) keeps saying "yeah, but think about your rig with TWO of those...it would be KILLER".

I'm weighing my options, as I'm saving to have a Benavente fanned fret 5 string built soon, but its sooooooo tempting. But then, the 1212 has proved itself to be up to the task, and we're at the end of the outdoor playing season here in upstate (another month and we may have snow if it ever drops below 90 degrees).

*sigh*

 

[Larry Kaye]

but I feel the "interim" step is not to carry two cabinets. If you're 1212 is not quite up to a limited number of gigs, get a 410 for the larger gigs. The difference in my case between my 1210 and 410 is what I would say is "substantial". Also the larger the venue I feel the more important quickness and response + clarity and punch become, especially if one is not right on top of one's amp. I've already found that you need to throw out the book and the old thinking and rules with these cabinets. Most of the other cabs that are as efficient and loud do not respond well below 50 or 60 HZ. The cabs that respond well to lower frequencies, like Acme's for instance, do not have high SPL ratings. Whatever the reason, be it design, speakers, witchcraft, or all of 'em, Jorg has come up with a single cabinet design that just plain and simple outperforms anything else of it's price and size.

If your soundman starts telling you "just think of what 2 1212's would sound like, I'd look into a 410 next, maybe the 21012. I love the 410. It is a schlep, no doubt, but most of the lighter cabs like the EPI UL410 are bigger and more awkward. Many with Neo speakers are very expensive and don't have the tone. Everything's in the taste of the beholder, yes? Again, with "only" 600 watts at hand, I have more than enough stage volume to suit literally any band that has any interest in retaining their sense of hearing.

LKaye

 

[dawhite33]

All I know is, I felt sorry as hell for the guy who had to pull his SVT-CL and 8x10 up those two flights of stairs last night in Austin!!!

Was that at Momo's? I can't even imagine someone trying to lug a full SVT rig up those stairs - insane! I'm looking forward to my next gig there with my new 1210. The PA has great bass, and I'm sure miking the Schroeder sounds killer.

 

[iriegnome]

Well, if anyone is listening - - I have now used my Mini-12 on top of my 1212 for 4 major festivals in the upper midwest here and I am totally blown away. They have tone and sound beyond any of the SWR's and Eden's I have used. This is my take on it all - Jorg has made a product that bassists can rely on for smal to hugh and they work for us, not fight us.

 

[Chef]

I second this entirely as both as 1210 and 410 owner...

but I feel the "interim" step is not to carry two cabinets. If you're 1212 is not quite up to a limited number of gigs, get a 410 for the larger gigs. The difference in my case between my 1210 and 410 is what I would say is "substantial". Also the larger the venue I feel the more important quickness and response + clarity and punch become, especially if one is not right on top of one's amp. I've already found that you need to throw out the book and the old thinking and rules with these cabinets. Most of the other cabs that are as efficient and loud do not respond well below 50 or 60 HZ. The cabs that respond well to lower frequencies, like Acme's for instance, do not have high SPL ratings. Whatever the reason, be it design, speakers, witchcraft, or all of 'em, Jorg has come up with a single cabinet design that just plain and simple outperforms anything else of it's price and size.

If your soundman starts telling you "just think of what 2 1212's would sound like, I'd look into a 410 next, maybe the 21012. I love the 410. It is a schlep, no doubt, but most of the lighter cabs like the EPI UL410 are bigger and more awkward. Many with Neo speakers are very expensive and don't have the tone. Everything's in the taste of the beholder, yes? Again, with "only" 600 watts at hand, I have more than enough stage volume to suit literally any band that has any interest in retaining their sense of hearing.

LKaye

 

[Kirk P Brosius]

Heym iriegnome,

I am using the 1210/iAmp800 combo with my Ken Smith with great results and I have a couple of questions.

Which Mini did you buy?
How did you decide between the two models?

I will use the Mini for the very small gigs and the 1210 and/or the Mini for the big ones.

Thanks for any advice!

Kirk

 

[BurningSkies]

Interesting....

The only thing I worry about with a 410 is the low end response, since Jorg's cabs are so 'tight' already. How does it compare in holding down the bottom end...keep in mind that as a reggae player, I push lots more low than most players.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Was that at Momo's? I can't even imagine someone trying to lug a full SVT rig up those stairs - insane! I'm looking forward to my next gig there with my new 1210. The PA has great bass, and I'm sure miking the Schroeder sounds killer.

Yeah it was, actually.

I really felt sorry for the guy, like I said, but he was like "Yeah, this is my rock 'n' roll rig" or something. I just smiled and said "Sweet!". His friggin' head weighed more than my cab, almost twice over!!! Nuts, if you ask me. The club isn't THAT big, and there's what, like 5 monitors on stage?

yeah I heard the PA sound was pretty sweet. I stand stage-Left, so if you play that side w/out a guitar amp, I recommend miking it with the SM57 they have on either side, and you'll get a killer sound.

 

[popinfresh]

Interesting....

The only thing I worry about with a 410 is the low end response, since Jorg's cabs are so 'tight' already. How does it compare in holding down the bottom end...keep in mind that as a reggae player, I push lots more low than most players.

In your case, i'd say a 21012 would be best. My 410 goes deep, and it handles the low B easily etc etc.. But I find it to be more quick and punchy, than thick booty filled goodness, ya know? I think a 12 would be good to have.Then again, your also losing a 12 by going 21012.. But talk with Jorg I suppose

 

[Larry Kaye]

have you ever found yourself lacking bottom in a venue with your 410? I admittedly haven't used the 410 for that long compared to the 1210, but at my gig this past Monday, when I cranked the bass boost on my Mike Lull M5V up to close to full, I was shaking meat balls and canoli off of the tables. Older people were complaining that their fillings and hearing aids were being shook right outta their teeth and ears

It was an outdoor job in an open tent, with seating room for my guess around 200 and standing room for another 150 or so. There was no echo whatsoever. Here's my "point". The 21012 does have a lower HZ rating and a higher SPL. Even though I have played 5 or 6 string fairly exclusively for the past 15 years now, I 've always felt that tightness of the B string, not just in terms of how it "feels" to your fingers, but in tone, be it punchiness or sounding like the other strings, etc. within reason, and having a cabinet and bass where all the strings sound similar and are as close to the same volume are the keys to live sound. With all the cabinets I've ever owned, I've never had one that's been lowere than a listed 39nz low end response at whatever + or - x db's the manufacturer listed (yes this needs to be more standardized, maybe?), and never had one above 101 SPL UNTIL NOW.

I personally feel that 40HZ and a high spl gives you more versatility and less rumbling, muddiness issues live than a 35Hz high efficiency cabinet, which up until now was really rare to find. The 21012 maybe indeed have a rounder and more booty sound at the same tone settings, but I feel you can use on board the bass, the amp/preamp, or a rack or a floor mounted graphic with the 410 to get that little extra bottom end roundness, wihout giving up the punch that the 410's are likely to have more of

Again it's just an opinion as I was going through this same decision making process a month ago. The 410 is the right decision for me as I would prefer to turn down the bass boost a little and turn up the amp to be heard more easily than to increase the bottom end so much it clouds up the sound, makes it rumble around a venue, or makes the tone a little more difficult to mic up.

Again just an opinion, but a very experienced one, especially in very often playing in extremely lousy sounding venues and what one needs to do to "get over it" in those situations.

Have a good one.

 

[KJung]

I personally feel that 40HZ and a high spl gives you more versatility and less rumbling, muddiness issues live than a 35Hz high efficiency cabinet, which up until now was really rare to find. The 21012 maybe indeed have a rounder and more booty sound at the same tone settings, but I feel you can use on board the bass, the amp/preamp, or a rack or a floor mounted graphic with the 410 to get that little extra bottom end roundness, wihout giving up the punch that the 410's are likely to have more of

A big +1 to this. I think there's a misperception out there that having a cab tuned to roll off below the B string fundamental is necessary for a good B string sound. I find just the opposite... a cab that rolls off a little higher results in a B string that sounds more like an extension of the E string versus a huge boom. You also get the advantage of more watts from your amp going to more usable frequencies (i.e., a disproportionate amount of wattage is needed to reproduce the lowest frequencies). A number of my bassist associates are still using their trusty Eden410XLT's and many have the best, punchiest B strings I've ever heard... and that cab 'rolls off' at around 50hz! I find the same thing with the 1210... it reproduces the B string sound (is it the first harmonic?) that really results in you hearing a low, defined note versus the big rumble.

 

[Steve S]

Interesting....

The only thing I worry about with a 410 is the low end response, since Jorg's cabs are so 'tight' already. How does it compare in holding down the bottom end...keep in mind that as a reggae player, I push lots more low than most players.

I used my 410 at an outdoor gig over the weekend and it sounded great. Nice lows and punchy highs. I was going through my Eden WT 550 with a passive Jazz reissue. I've never had this kind of sound whenever I played outdoors before. I also have the 1212 but found that I didn't need it with the 410.

 

[BurningSkies]

Cool.

I guess that means the 410 isn't out of the question for what I need. How about the 21012? Anyone have any real life experience with this versus a 410? For a bit about my set up, I use a Mesa 400+ with the settings currently:

Bass= 7 to 8 (well boosted) but no pull shift
Mid = 7 to 8 (a little cut)
Treble= 0 or 1 (flat or a *tiny* bit of boost)

Graphic EQ off.

I run my main power around 4 or 5 and these days I'm only using channel 2 set at 4 or 5 too. I tend to roll my volume off at the bass a bit and have my passive bass EQ rolled off all the way.

If I need more volume than this setup can take, I roll the bass back to 6-7 and can get louder. I would assume that I could go MUCH louder if I brought the bass boost down into the 4-5 range.

So Howzabout the 21012?!?