Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[John D Harris]

Cool.

I guess that means the 410 isn't out of the question for what I need. How about the 21012? Anyone have any real life experience with this versus a 410? For a bit about my set up, I use a Mesa 400+ with the settings currently:

Bass= 7 to 8 (well boosted) but no pull shift
Mid = 7 to 8 (a little cut)
Treble= 0 or 1 (flat or a *tiny* bit of boost)

Graphic EQ off.

I run my main power around 4 or 5 and these days I'm only using channel 2 set at 4 or 5 too. I tend to roll my volume off at the bass a bit and have my passive bass EQ rolled off all the way.

If I need more volume than this setup can take, I roll the bass back to 6-7 and can get louder. I would assume that I could go MUCH louder if I brought the bass boost down into the 4-5 range.

So Howzabout the 21012?!?

I'd say the 21012 has a more naturally 'Reggae' voice with its thicker, heftier low end.

As Larry K said, the 410 can get you (pretty much) there...allbeit with some EQing.

Depends on whether you want more of a chameleon type cabinet (with punch in spades) or an inherent bigger low end with not quite as much punch in the upper mid-bass.

I'd love to hear either option with the M/B 400+.

 

[seansbrew]

I can't give you a side by side comparison between the 21012 and the 4x10, but I can tell you my experience witht the 21012. I had the 1212,1210 and 21012 at the same time and opted to keep the 1212 1210. The 21012 is an awesome cab. The lows are very deep and rich and do not break up at high volumes. Compared to my Ampeg BXT 4x10 it was just as loud but with allot more bottom end. This cab would be well suited for funk, R and B, and Reggae.
Though I am sure you could use it for anything, the deep rich bass voicing of this cab is promenent. I would run my low frequency controls just about flat ( 30 hz to 80hz range), I rarely added the the lower frequencies because the lows seem to be built into the cabinet. The 21012 still has plenty of punch you can still dial in a nice midrange sound, but that does not seem to be the tendancy of this cab. With the cab I used an SWR sm-500 and an Ampeg SVT 4 pro, Both heads worked well with the cab. I opted for the two smaller cabs to save space. And overall they suited my needs better. When I paired the 1210 with the 21012, the balance was awesome. Definetly a cab for someone who desires a deep rich bass sound. Hope this helps.

 

[natrab]

I dunno, I do some dub reggae myself and I've always preferred 10s. While it does have to be high bass and low treble, the response needs to be extremely tight and less boomy. 10s provide this punchiness much better than 12s in my experience. When you go all lows with larger speakers, you can tend to get an undefined boomy sound. 10s control this better. The Schroeder 410s can handle anything you can throw at them, and will provide the necessary punch for a good reggae sound.

 

[DAcat]

I can't give you a side by side comparison between the 21012 and the 4x10, but I can tell you my experience witht the 21012. I had the 1212,1210 and 21012 at the same time and opted to keep the 1212 1210. The 21012 is an awesome cab. The lows are very deep and rich and do not break up at high volumes. Compared to my Ampeg BXT 4x10 it was just as loud but with allot more bottom end. This cab would be well suited for funk, R and B, and Reggae.
Though I am sure you could use it for anything, the deep rich bass voicing of this cab is promenent. I would run my low frequency controls just about flat ( 30 hz to 80hz range), I rarely added the the lower frequencies because the lows seem to be built into the cabinet. The 21012 still has plenty of punch you can still dial in a nice midrange sound, but that does not seem to be the tendancy of this cab. With the cab I used an SWR sm-500 and an Ampeg SVT 4 pro, Both heads worked well with the cab. I opted for the two smaller cabs to save space. And overall they suited my needs better. When I paired the 1210 with the 21012, the balance was awesome. Definetly a cab for someone who desires a deep rich bass sound. Hope this helps.

Seansbrew... Just curious if you feel there would be much difference in the sound of 2 1212s compared to 2 1210s compared to the 21012...peace...DAcat...

 

[popinfresh]

have you ever found yourself lacking bottom in a venue with your 410? I admittedly haven't used the 410 for that long compared to the 1210, but at my gig this past Monday, when I cranked the bass boost on my Mike Lull M5V up to close to full, I was shaking meat balls and canoli off of the tables. Older people were complaining that their fillings and hearing aids were being shook right outta their teeth and ears

It was an outdoor job in an open tent, with seating room for my guess around 200 and standing room for another 150 or so. There was no echo whatsoever. Here's my "point". The 21012 does have a lower HZ rating and a higher SPL. Even though I have played 5 or 6 string fairly exclusively for the past 15 years now, I 've always felt that tightness of the B string, not just in terms of how it "feels" to your fingers, but in tone, be it punchiness or sounding like the other strings, etc. within reason, and having a cabinet and bass where all the strings sound similar and are as close to the same volume are the keys to live sound. With all the cabinets I've ever owned, I've never had one that's been lowere than a listed 39nz low end response at whatever + or - x db's the manufacturer listed (yes this needs to be more standardized, maybe?), and never had one above 101 SPL UNTIL NOW.

I personally feel that 40HZ and a high spl gives you more versatility and less rumbling, muddiness issues live than a 35Hz high efficiency cabinet, which up until now was really rare to find. The 21012 maybe indeed have a rounder and more booty sound at the same tone settings, but I feel you can use on board the bass, the amp/preamp, or a rack or a floor mounted graphic with the 410 to get that little extra bottom end roundness, wihout giving up the punch that the 410's are likely to have more of

Again it's just an opinion as I was going through this same decision making process a month ago. The 410 is the right decision for me as I would prefer to turn down the bass boost a little and turn up the amp to be heard more easily than to increase the bottom end so much it clouds up the sound, makes it rumble around a venue, or makes the tone a little more difficult to mic up.

Again just an opinion, but a very experienced one, especially in very often playing in extremely lousy sounding venues and what one needs to do to "get over it" in those situations.

Have a good one.

I've never had lows lacking at all TBH. The reason I said a 21012 might suit him better was just the fact that he's a reggae player. I can deep DEEP lows out of the 410, but it's still got a punch/attack that you get with 10's. Which i'm not sure if he would, or would not be after (I don't know if he's after a more thick, booty filled rig then deep, yet punchy).

I don't even know if you were refering to BS though, so yeah. Heheh.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've never had lows lacking at all TBH. The reason I said a 21012 might suit him better was just the fact that he's a reggae player. I can deep DEEP lows out of the 410, but it's still got a punch/attack that you get with 10's. Which i'm not sure if he would, or would not be after (I don't know if he's after a more thick, booty filled rig then deep, yet punchy).

I don't even know if you were refering to BS though, so yeah. Heheh.

I have a 1212, and it's got more punch than my old 4x10 cab, so in my mind Jorg's 12's are tighter sounding than 10's...I haven't played any of his 10 cabs. I might see how this plays out for a bit, since I'm not really deperate for a new cab right now. Come next spring when we're playing more outside shows, it may be a bigger consideration.

Maybe I'll work on my friend for a bit and see if I can git him to get rid of his Phil Jones Piranha cabs.

 

[seansbrew]

Seansbrew... Just curious if you feel there would be much difference in the sound of 2 1212s compared to 2 1210s compared to the 21012...peace...DAcat...

I am not sure I can make that comparison. The 1212 cab sounds a little thicker and rounder as compared to the 1210. They are both very focused. The 1212 is very focused around the lows and low mids. The 1210 seems be focused in the low mids and midrange. With good eq adjustments I can make either of them sound like the other. When they are paired together (both fed the same eq)they really complement one another. the 21012 seems to be both of these cabs combined with just a little more deep bass. A combo of two 1212 cabs or two 1210 cabs would sound good beacuse they are easy to dial in. It all depends on what you need to hear in your cabs and what yuor application is. Jorg is very good at answering these questions. The description that he gives on his website regarding the sound of each cab seems to be right on the money. Give him a call or email him, he would be happy to help.

 

[MacheteJames]

If anyone in the New England area is interested, I am trying to convince Boston Guitar Works to carry Schroeder cabinets. They are in talks with Jorg right now, but they want to see how much demand is out there before they commit. If you want to see it happen, email [email protected].

 

[popinfresh]

BS - I just had another band prac and we decided to do some reggae etc for fun to warm up. I rolled back the treble and some mids, used the deep switch on the Trace and got a pretty fat, booty filled sound. Not quite what i'd think you'd get with a 12 or 15.. But very nice still!

 

[BurningSkies]

BS - I just had another band prac and we decided to do some reggae etc for fun to warm up. I rolled back the treble and some mids, used the deep switch on the Trace and got a pretty fat, booty filled sound. Not quite what i'd think you'd get with a 12 or 15.. But very nice still!

Had a bit of trouble with mine over the weekend...I think I need to spend some time with it this week to try and sort it out.

We played an outdoor gig on Saturday night, and I had the same set up as all four of last weekend's shows in terms of volume and the tone was within the same range, but I was getting some serious 'fartage' from the cab.

Last week it stayed clean down low just fine at a pretty loud volume, but this week it was all break up. When that happens I usually roll the low on my 400+ back, in this case into the 5-6 range, but it didn't clean up the sound. Our last song was the balad like "Turn your lights down low" and I rolled my bass' volume back a good chunk and it cleaned up.

The only thing I can think is that my volume on my bass could have been up beyond where I normally have it (I usually roll back to about half way so I can have more headroom if I need it).

I'm gonna spend time on monday night working it a bit and see if I was just unknowingly very loud (It didn't seem that way) or if there's something else going on...Starting to feel like while 50% of the time it's perfect, the other 50% is me asking too much from the 1212 in both my tone and maybe my volume. *sigh*

 

[John D Harris]

Had a bit of trouble with mine over the weekend...I think I need to spend some time with it this week to try and sort it out.

We played an outdoor gig on Saturday night, and I had the same set up as all four of last weekend's shows in terms of volume and the tone was within the same range, but I was getting some serious 'fartage' from the cab.

Last week it stayed clean down low just fine at a pretty loud volume, but this week it was all break up. When that happens I usually roll the low on my 400+ back, in this case into the 5-6 range, but it didn't clean up the sound. Our last song was the balad like "Turn your lights down low" and I rolled my bass' volume back a good chunk and it cleaned up.

The only thing I can think is that my volume on my bass could have been up beyond where I normally have it (I usually roll back to about half way so I can have more headroom if I need it).

I'm gonna spend time on monday night working it a bit and see if I was just unknowingly very loud (It didn't seem that way) or if there's something else going on...Starting to feel like while 50% of the time it's perfect, the other 50% is me asking too much from the 1212 in both my tone and maybe my volume. *sigh*

Maybe it was an issue with the AC power from the mains...?

 

[BurningSkies]

Maybe it was an issue with the AC power from the mains...?

That's one of my hopes...We keep getting these outdoor party gigs (this one and one of the ones last night were wedding parties) at public parks. You know, the kind that have old estate houses done over for functions. I'd not be very surprised if a lot of these places had very dirty power. I also haven't found a 'conditioner' that seemed to do too much.

I've not had a problem with the set up with my current settings, and at one of the ones we played last week, the concrete slab we played on (yes, I had rubber mats to insulate) actually was vibrating I was so loud all without any problems.

 

[Chef]

Active bass preamp battery gone bad?

 

[BurningSkies]

Active bass preamp battery gone bad?

Nope...it was my passive Dingwall.

It did take me a few moments though, it didn't sound like what happened when I had a 'bad' speaker in my 1212 a ways back. I even thought for a moment that maybe my amp was overdriving (it was warm and my amp was on for about 5 hours total), but I use 2 fans in the back and it was only in the mid seventies outside. The thing that got me a bit confused was that it didn't change when I rolled back the bass, and when I hit low B it wasn't any more pronounced than say A or even D. It was like it was happening in the mids (almost ampeg tone).

I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions yet and I'll spend some time this week playing the rig at volume to see what happens.


*edited to add* Hey, wait a minute...now that I think about it, the levels on our PA were running very hot too. All run off the same power. I guess this suggests the power WAS bad?

(I really am too used to playing @ clubs and bars with decent amenities)

 

[rockstarbassist]

Nope...it was my passive Dingwall.

It did take me a few moments though, it didn't sound like what happened when I had a 'bad' speaker in my 1212 a ways back. I even thought for a moment that maybe my amp was overdriving (it was warm and my amp was on for about 5 hours total), but I use 2 fans in the back and it was only in the mid seventies outside. The thing that got me a bit confused was that it didn't change when I rolled back the bass, and when I hit low B it wasn't any more pronounced than say A or even D. It was like it was happening in the mids (almost ampeg tone).

I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions yet and I'll spend some time this week playing the rig at volume to see what happens.


*edited to add* Hey, wait a minute...now that I think about it, the levels on our PA were running very hot too. All run off the same power. I guess this suggests the power WAS bad?

(I really am too used to playing @ clubs and bars with decent amenities)

Man that sounds crazy!! I just played last/Sat. night at an outdoor gig, up on a concrete slab about 6" off the main deck, all covered in pretty much, and I had my Peavey amp running about 60% and my Demeter at about 3:00 (which is where I usually set it) and actually had to turn down against our PA. I've maxed out my setup a couple of times, and even with my Spector's low B thumpin', I just roll back the volume for each pickup a tad bit, cut the bass a tad, and it's clear as a whistle... So I donno mang!! But that's kinda weird... I've yet to encounter the "farting" you get from most speakers at high volumes.

 

[chadds]

What is the Schroeder Moan?

 

[dcr]

Anybody here use the 1210 and/or 1212 with a Read preamp?

I'm finding that mine's just too mellow and lacking the definition that I really want when I use the Read. No problems with my old redface SWR Bass 350, but the Read is just too tame for me. I'm pretty much maxing the treble on the Read (or at least about 75-85%) and the attenuator on the Schro is wide open. Thinking about going to the Selenium tweeter to try and add some sparkle.

Comments and recommendations appreciated.

Thanks!


dcr

 

[seansbrew]

I am finding that the combination of Schroeder cabs with Hi-fi heads is a great combination. The Schroeder cabs really seem to tame these types of heads to create a nice balance. My SWR SM-500 has never sounded better. I have the 1212 and 1210 and I am in the process of trying out different heads with them. My Ampeg sounds ok thru these cabs, but not as good as my SWR. I am going to be adding a Pre/Power amp setup and so far the pre amp in the lead is an Eden Navigator. I have plugged a few eden heads into my Schroeders and the tone is awesome. Heads that I didn't like with my Shcroeders are: SVT 2, Aguilar 750, Fender ( anything), Ampeg svp, BBE bmax. Heads that sounded good are: SWR ( all ) Kustom, Eden ( all ), GK pre amp ( cant remember the model). Thats about all I have been able to try for now.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I am finding that the combination of Schroeder cabs with Hi-fi heads is a great combination. The Schroeder cabs really seem to tame these types of heads to create a nice balance. My SWR SM-500 has never sounded better. I have the 1212 and 1210 and I am in the process of trying out different heads with them. My Ampeg sounds ok thru these cabs, but not as good as my SWR. I am going to be adding a Pre/Power amp setup and so far the pre amp in the lead is an Eden Navigator. I have plugged a few eden heads into my Schroeders and the tone is awesome. Heads that I didn't like with my Shcroeders are: SVT 2, Aguilar 750, Fender ( anything), Ampeg svp, BBE bmax. Heads that sounded good are: SWR ( all ) Kustom, Eden ( all ), GK pre amp ( cant remember the model). Thats about all I have been able to try for now.

I plan on adding an Eden WT-550 to my Schro for small gigs/practice rigging. I've heard the combo is incredible. And if it's that good, well then I just may be adding a Navigator to my rack in the future!!

 

[John D Harris]

Anybody here use the 1210 and/or 1212 with a Read preamp?

I'm finding that mine's just too mellow and lacking the definition that I really want when I use the Read. No problems with my old redface SWR Bass 350, but the Read is just too tame for me. I'm pretty much maxing the treble on the Read (or at least about 75-85%) and the attenuator on the Schro is wide open. Thinking about going to the Selenium tweeter to try and add some sparkle.

Comments and recommendations appreciated.

Thanks!


dcr

I got to fiddle around with Biker4Him's Purity w/21012 + 1210 and I thought it sounded better with the gain relatively low and master cranked -- more articulate sound, but I'm not sure if that's what you're after or not.
Maybe you've already tried that though...

A JJ 12AX7 might help some.