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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)
- Thread starter SMASH
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Greetings from the North,
You lucky dog,thanks for relaying your experience. It's so much cooler to read what other players actually heard as opposed to just cold data. Gotta ask.....what kinda bass and type of strings were you using?
Rezdog
You lucky dog,thanks for relaying your experience. It's so much cooler to read what other players actually heard as opposed to just cold data. Gotta ask.....what kinda bass and type of strings were you using?
Rezdog
RunngDog said:
They are, and that's the tricky part. If I were to get 2 8 ohm cabs, they'd have to be custom built with different drivers, which is why I might not do it. I'm just a bit skeptical about the 1210... I don't know if it'd be loud enough, but the 21012 is just a bit heavier than I'd like it to be. Has anyone A/B'ed the 1212 with the 1210? I've heard that the 1210 is actually deeper and tighter, but I'm going for pure bass response, and I think that's where the 1212 would shine. The reason I don't want to get 2 4 ohm cabs is because I'd have to either get 2 more cabs or run my QSC at 350 watts per side as opposed to 600 with a 2 ohm load. Not a big deal though.
Rezdog said:
G&L L-25000 with kinda old d'Addario XL 130's through the body. Happy to be of help.
Seb
Petebass...Impedance LOWER than Re???? I believe that's impossible.
The schematic model of a loudspeaker would include a series resistance (Re) with represents the electrical resistance of the copper or aluminum magnet wire and some values of inductance and capacitance to take the physical construction of the voice coil, cone, surround, etc.
If the frequency dependant stuff is in series with Re and its reactance can't be a negative number (and would only be 0 (zero) at O Hz...aka DC when the Re is being measured) the impedance can never be less than Re.
Graphically, Re would be a vector on the (horizontal) X axis and Reactance would be on the (vertical) Y axis. Impedance is the hypotenuse of the trangle.
Or so I've convinced myself
If I'm forgetting something, please enlighten me...
The schematic model of a loudspeaker would include a series resistance (Re) with represents the electrical resistance of the copper or aluminum magnet wire and some values of inductance and capacitance to take the physical construction of the voice coil, cone, surround, etc.
If the frequency dependant stuff is in series with Re and its reactance can't be a negative number (and would only be 0 (zero) at O Hz...aka DC when the Re is being measured) the impedance can never be less than Re.
Graphically, Re would be a vector on the (horizontal) X axis and Reactance would be on the (vertical) Y axis. Impedance is the hypotenuse of the trangle.
Or so I've convinced myself
If I'm forgetting something, please enlighten me...
Received a 1210 from Jorg on Thursday. Everything went off with out any problem. Cab arrived with no damage packed very well. Jorg is a pleasure to deal with, he emailed me, called me, made sure I was informed with all the shipping info and is obviously, to me at least, customer friendly and service oriented.
I had only tonight in the evening to test it, our gig started at 9:30. So I set it up next to a Goliath III (8 ohms), powered by an iAMP 800. I used my Marcus Miller Jazz through the G3 first, as this is one of my regular rig cabs for this band. I turned the amp up quite hot, pre at about 2:00 and master at one. I 'm goofin' and thinking, 'Damn this sounds pretty good.' referring to the swr. Nice crisp popping sound, really lets the Jazz tone come through. Then I plug in the 1210.
My first reaction was, well.... I thought I would be bowled over and.... I wasn't. It felt like the punchiness, or bite wasn't there, like what I'd just heard from the G3. I did notice that the very bottom end was thicker, beefier; it had a solid quality that was more substantial than the 4x10. Still it seemed that it had a rounder more midrangy flavor to it. You could even say I was a little puzzled. I wasn't disappointed, just thinking I needed to dial it in. I adusted the tweeter control on both cabs tyring to get a sound I liked. I decided that I would take these two to the gig and play them together. Normally I use the G3 with an SOB 1x15, but I left that at home tonight. Towards the end of my little comparison, I started feeling more comfortable with the sound the Schroeder was giving me.
Anyway the club did not sound like my living room and I was not happy with the first sound quality. I did notice, however, that after some dialing 'out' (made the amp eq flat, and used the upper mid preset) the low end of Jorg's cab was giving me some growl, and presence that I hadn't had before. It became very obvious after a while that the bass was really standing out front and cutting through like it never had before, all over the fretboard and on every string, a clear, thick, muscular tone and the only difference was that I was using the 1210 instead of the SOB.
I have to admit that by the end of the night I was clearly digging the sound of the cab and what it did for my overall tone. My opinion had changed 180 degrees. I am very pleased by the results in the club and can't wait for tomorrow (today!) so I can do it again. I have 3 more gigs next weekend, so I imagine that I'll be able to really dial it in over the next week. I even had some of the folks at the club (musician friends/fans of the guitarist) tell me that it made a huge difference. When we finished, there were two dummers and a bassist from other bands we know standing around my rig checking the cab out. Jorg may get even busier now!
Anyway, I'll post more after all the gigs are over next week.
Sorry for the long ramble, very tired...must sleep.
I had only tonight in the evening to test it, our gig started at 9:30. So I set it up next to a Goliath III (8 ohms), powered by an iAMP 800. I used my Marcus Miller Jazz through the G3 first, as this is one of my regular rig cabs for this band. I turned the amp up quite hot, pre at about 2:00 and master at one. I 'm goofin' and thinking, 'Damn this sounds pretty good.' referring to the swr. Nice crisp popping sound, really lets the Jazz tone come through. Then I plug in the 1210.
My first reaction was, well.... I thought I would be bowled over and.... I wasn't. It felt like the punchiness, or bite wasn't there, like what I'd just heard from the G3. I did notice that the very bottom end was thicker, beefier; it had a solid quality that was more substantial than the 4x10. Still it seemed that it had a rounder more midrangy flavor to it. You could even say I was a little puzzled. I wasn't disappointed, just thinking I needed to dial it in. I adusted the tweeter control on both cabs tyring to get a sound I liked. I decided that I would take these two to the gig and play them together. Normally I use the G3 with an SOB 1x15, but I left that at home tonight. Towards the end of my little comparison, I started feeling more comfortable with the sound the Schroeder was giving me.
Anyway the club did not sound like my living room and I was not happy with the first sound quality. I did notice, however, that after some dialing 'out' (made the amp eq flat, and used the upper mid preset) the low end of Jorg's cab was giving me some growl, and presence that I hadn't had before. It became very obvious after a while that the bass was really standing out front and cutting through like it never had before, all over the fretboard and on every string, a clear, thick, muscular tone and the only difference was that I was using the 1210 instead of the SOB.
I have to admit that by the end of the night I was clearly digging the sound of the cab and what it did for my overall tone. My opinion had changed 180 degrees. I am very pleased by the results in the club and can't wait for tomorrow (today!) so I can do it again. I have 3 more gigs next weekend, so I imagine that I'll be able to really dial it in over the next week. I even had some of the folks at the club (musician friends/fans of the guitarist) tell me that it made a huge difference. When we finished, there were two dummers and a bassist from other bands we know standing around my rig checking the cab out. Jorg may get even busier now!
Anyway, I'll post more after all the gigs are over next week.
Sorry for the long ramble, very tired...must sleep.
Petebass said:
The power drops between the 4 Ohm and 8 Ohm cab because the impedance of the cabs is different. The output voltage of the amplifier will be the same (assuming identical settings and input signal, of course...). The 4 Ohm load will draw more current than the 8 Ohm one, which accounts for the difference in power. For all intents and purposes, the amplifier is operating the same when the output voltage is the same. The nature of the load determines the current and power output for a given voltage. Under linear operating conditions, the amount of current demanded by the load shouldn't effect the performance of the amp.
Blueszilla said:Received a 1210 from Jorg on Thursday. Everything went off with out any problem. Cab arrived with no damage packed very well. Jorg is a pleasure to deal with, he emailed me, called me, made sure I was informed with all the shipping info and is obviously, to me at least, customer friendly and service oriented.
I had only tonight in the evening to test it, our gig started at 9:30. So I set it up next to a Goliath III (8 ohms), powered by an iAMP 800. I used my Marcus Miller Jazz through the G3 first, as this is one of my regular rig cabs for this band. I turned the amp up quite hot, pre at about 2:00 and master at one. I 'm goofin' and thinking, 'Damn this sounds pretty good.' referring to the swr. Nice crisp popping sound, really lets the Jazz tone come through. Then I plug in the 1210.
My first reaction was, well.... I thought I would be bowled over and.... I wasn't. It felt like the punchiness, or bite wasn't there, like what I'd just heard from the G3. I did notice that the very bottom end was thicker, beefier; it had a solid quality that was more substantial than the 4x10. Still it seemed that it had a rounder more midrangy flavor to it. You could even say I was a little puzzled. I wasn't disappointed, just thinking I needed to dial it in. I adusted the tweeter control on both cabs tyring to get a sound I liked. I decided that I would take these two to the gig and play them together. Normally I use the G3 with an SOB 1x15, but I left that at home tonight. Towards the end of my little comparison, I started feeling more comfortable with the sound the Schroeder was giving me.
Anyway the club did not sound like my living room and I was not happy with the first sound quality. I did notice, however, that after some dialing 'out' (made the amp eq flat, and used the upper mid preset) the low end of Jorg's cab was giving me some growl, and presence that I hadn't had before. It became very obvious after a while that the bass was really standing out front and cutting through like it never had before, all over the fretboard and on every string, a clear, thick, muscular tone and the only difference was that I was using the 1210 instead of the SOB.
I have to admit that by the end of the night I was clearly digging the sound of the cab and what it did for my overall tone. My opinion had changed 180 degrees. I am very pleased by the results in the club and can't wait for tomorrow (today!) so I can do it again. I have 3 more gigs next weekend, so I imagine that I'll be able to really dial it in over the next week. I even had some of the folks at the club (musician friends/fans of the guitarist) tell me that it made a huge difference. When we finished, there were two dummers and a bassist from other bands we know standing around my rig checking the cab out. Jorg may get even busier now!
Anyway, I'll post more after all the gigs are over next week.
Sorry for the long ramble, very tired...must sleep.
Very cool Blueszilla, i took the plunge and should be getting mine in a month too.
The thick tone you describe sounds similar to aggies GS112's? That's one thing Jorg said it sounds similar too when i spoke to him.
I have a GS2x12 and had a GS1x12 so i really like that tone.
bassjamn said:
I've actually never heard an Aguilar speaker, much less played through one. I was thinking of buying a used one, seems like you can get one for less than $300. After tonight (more corroboration of all the positives of last night), I really am liking this little beast. Makes my jazz sound really good. So far so good. IMHO you'll be happy with the cab.
more results posting later....
I promised that I would post a review after our band did it's 1st indoor gig since getting the Schroeder 410.
The club we did had been renovated since the last time we played there and the acoustics (which had been pretty weird -- very lively in the higher frequencies and boomy in the lower freqs.) were better (fairly decent).
The club had it's own PA and soundman. I told him that I never used PA support and he insisted on getting a line out from my pre's DI. The stage was pretty cramped so I was maybe 1m from the cab while playing. I think I should have set the cab with the angled baffle angled up. I could hear myself, but not quite as well as I prefer. If I turned up enough to hear myself as well as I like, the audience would complain that I was drowning out the lead singer & the whole setup was already on the LOUD side of things, so I kept the volume down a bit on my SR5.
I plan on insisting on not going through the PA next time we play there.
The PA support meant that I wasn't just hearing my cab (though it was mostly my cab).
Overall, I got a confirmation of my impressions from our outdoor gig.
Efficient volume output, warmly articulate on the low end down to low 'B', very punchy upper lows and lower mids, nicely voiced midrange and treble (smooth and clear).
For those similarly suffering from OCD:
My SR5 bass has DR LowRiders on it. The 410's HF driver control was at 12 o'clock. I cut my SR5's bass control maybe 5 degrees below the center detent and boosted the bass control on the Dem 201S to about 1 o'clock. I cut the SR5's midrange maybe 5 degrees and boosted the Dem's midrange to about 4 o'clock. I cut the SR5's treble control about 10 degrees and boosted the Dem's treble to 1 o'clock. The presence contol on the Dem was at 7:30. The bright switch was 'in', the bass switch was in the 60Hz position (except for while doing "Smoke On the Water"), & the presence switch was 'in'. My Dem's volume was at 2 o'clock and the PLX1602 was bridged, gain max'd, clip limiter on, filters off.
1600W of clean power into a Schroeder 410 is a wonderful thing.
The club we did had been renovated since the last time we played there and the acoustics (which had been pretty weird -- very lively in the higher frequencies and boomy in the lower freqs.) were better (fairly decent).
The club had it's own PA and soundman. I told him that I never used PA support and he insisted on getting a line out from my pre's DI. The stage was pretty cramped so I was maybe 1m from the cab while playing. I think I should have set the cab with the angled baffle angled up. I could hear myself, but not quite as well as I prefer. If I turned up enough to hear myself as well as I like, the audience would complain that I was drowning out the lead singer & the whole setup was already on the LOUD side of things, so I kept the volume down a bit on my SR5.
I plan on insisting on not going through the PA next time we play there.
The PA support meant that I wasn't just hearing my cab (though it was mostly my cab).
Overall, I got a confirmation of my impressions from our outdoor gig.
Efficient volume output, warmly articulate on the low end down to low 'B', very punchy upper lows and lower mids, nicely voiced midrange and treble (smooth and clear).
For those similarly suffering from OCD:
My SR5 bass has DR LowRiders on it. The 410's HF driver control was at 12 o'clock. I cut my SR5's bass control maybe 5 degrees below the center detent and boosted the bass control on the Dem 201S to about 1 o'clock. I cut the SR5's midrange maybe 5 degrees and boosted the Dem's midrange to about 4 o'clock. I cut the SR5's treble control about 10 degrees and boosted the Dem's treble to 1 o'clock. The presence contol on the Dem was at 7:30. The bright switch was 'in', the bass switch was in the 60Hz position (except for while doing "Smoke On the Water"), & the presence switch was 'in'. My Dem's volume was at 2 o'clock and the PLX1602 was bridged, gain max'd, clip limiter on, filters off.
1600W of clean power into a Schroeder 410 is a wonderful thing.
I would think it's be better to always have the ports facing up. Then again, you may end up losing some of your sound in an outdoor gig that way.
Ericman197 said:
The sound comes out of the speakers. The ports are used for tuning the cabinet. If you actually block the ports, the cabinet tuning will change. Other than that, it shouldn't make any difference where on the cabinet the ports are located.
That's right. At the end of the day you're not helping anyone by placing your cab where it's blowing most of the sound through your legs. Aim it at your head and you'll not only hear yourself better, you'll stop blasting the crowd and soundguy. You can get purpose built metal stands for this. Or use one of the drummers tom cases.billys73 said:
Petebass said:
I agree with you that you should position the cab so you can hear it. However.....I disagree about putting it on a stand.
Most of the bass cabinets I have used really benefit from being "coupled" with the floor. I think that if you have the cab on the floor, the low end fills the stage nicely. In my experience, putting it on a stand, I can't get enough low end in a band situation.
To keep the low end and have it more at ear level I usually just put my cab up on the drum riser behind me.
I agree to an extent which is why I try to use 2 cabs where possible. They couple with each other and with the floor, but the rig stands high enough that the sounds makes it to my ears.billys73 said:
But if I'm only using one cab, I'd choose the lesser of the two evils and put it on a stand. The PA takes care of the FOH usually, and I'm not plastering the crowd up against the back wall.
Petebass said:
I hear you. Once you introduce the PA into the equation, you certainly have more options on how to set up your rig.
billys73 said:
But keep the design of the Schroeder cabs in mind. You have front firing woofers and side firing woofers. The side firing woofers are where the ports are. While I don't like the idea of having the ports on the side, I do like the idea of having the woofers at an angle. This allows you to place them in a way that allows them to face you without any stands. You would have the ports on the bottom so the speakers would face down and bounce up towards your ears, whereas the other speakers at knee level would fire foward.
Ericman197 said:
Keep in mind that bass frequencies are omni-directional.
So the only difference in having some drivers pointed at your ears is that you will get more sound pressure, and hear yourself better. Which is good, if you don't desire or need the cabinet to couple to the floor for additional bottom. I don't think reflected sound is all that relevent in hearing yourself on stage, except maybe in a bad way.
I am not a tech...so anyone can feel free to dispute me; but
again, it doesn't matter where the ports are located as long as they are not blocked.
It would be great to find out how these cabinets actually sound. To me it seems like a design that wasn't the schiznit when it was done the first time, and I don't see what's different this time around.
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