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Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

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#301
billys73 said:
It would be great to find out how these cabinets actually sound. To me it seems like a design that wasn't the schiznit when it was done the first time, and I don't see what's different this time around.
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Why do do you say that it wasn't such a great design the "first time"? I've only heard good things about this and the other variations on this design theme. Is there something else that we don't know?

By the way, I've been testing my 1210 since I got it Friday night and I like it quite a bit.
 
#302
Scooperman said:
Why do do you say that it wasn't such a great design the "first time"? I've only heard good things about this and the other variations on this design theme. Is there something else that we don't know?

By the way, I've been testing my 1210 since I got it Friday night and I like it quite a bit.
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Well if we're talking folded horns, their shortcomings are well documented. They tend to be efficient over a very narrow band (read 'peaky') and tend to not be very articulate. Plus you need a very large horn mouth to realize directional control. That being said, a number of designers have been able to make them (and variations of them) work for certain applications. By all accounts Jorg Schroeder is one of them....
:D
 
#303
billys73 said:
...

It would be great to find out how these cabinets actually sound. To me it seems like a design that wasn't the schiznit when it was done the first time, and I don't see what's different this time around.
Click to expand...

Regardless of whatever similarities exist to the original Tech cabs, I know that extensive research and testing have gone into the current Schroeder cabs.

Irregardless of that even, my ears are very happy with the sound I'm hearing out of these cabs and to me that's what really counts.
Specs and measurements are all well & good and have their place, but in the sonic realm, the eardrum is the final arbiter for me (plus perhaps a few other internal organs).

Add to the great sound they put out, the fact that they seem to throw out volume levels more efficiently than most cabs -- especially for their size and I have a hard time imagining myself being happier with a cab.

Everyone can split hairs about the physics and argue over how they might work this way or that, but until you've gave them a reasonable audition, it all can go just so far.

It is reasonable to be skeptical, but don't try beating anyone up until you've at least heard them.

I would be willing to bet that no laws of physics have been broken -- just possibly tweaked to a new degree.
I haven't heard the original Tech cabs, so I can't say if these are significantly better.
I just know I heard and lived with some very good cabs and this Schroeder 410 is my favorite so far. As always, YMMV.
 
#306
Mark Reccord said:
Jorg appears to consider it a variation of the folded horn (see page 7 or 8), which it is by all appearances.
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Mark;

That is not entirely correct. I only added the Schroeders to the "folded horn styled" cabinet designers. I would also like to mention that even if the Schroeders have a similarity with the older style tech soundsystem designs, that's where it exactly stops, just similarities. There are tremendous differences when it comes to components, construction and efficiency between these two cabinet makers. I would like to see someone ridiculing all the front fired cabinet makers and alleging who "copied" the design from whom? Marshall? Ampeg? ????.......(please fill in your favorite front fired cabinet maker), might be an interesting thread, nah, it would be boring.
As I've mentioned before, critique is good, and that's everyone's right, but please keep if fair and reasonable.
I gladly respond to any email directed to my in a timely manner.

thanks everyone

Jorg
 
#309
Again, as mentioned before, we are still in full preparation for the summer NAMM. After that, things will be completed according to priority. There are furthermore no plans to install a rear handle or imbedded wheels due to the fact that the large cabinets are just not big enough; pop out casters are being offered. Due to the limited production there is currently nothing in stock. New cabinets will be shipped in the 1st week of August.

Thanks everyone for their patience.

Sincerely,

Jorg
 
#310
JSCHRO7376 said:
Mark;

That is not entirely correct. I only added the Schroeders to the "folded horn styled" cabinet designers. I would also like to mention that even if the Schroeders have a similarity with the older style tech soundsystem designs, that's where it exactly stops, just similarities. There are tremendous differences when it comes to components, construction and efficiency between these two cabinet makers. I would like to see someone ridiculing all the front fired cabinet makers and alleging who "copied" the design from whom? Marshall? Ampeg? ????.......(please fill in your favorite front fired cabinet maker), might be an interesting thread, nah, it would be boring.
As I've mentioned before, critique is good, and that's everyone's right, but please keep if fair and reasonable.
I gladly respond to any email directed to my in a timely manner.

thanks everyone

Jorg
Click to expand...

I don't have any issue with your design and I certainly don't think you've copied anyone else's design. I'm fairly sure you don't think that I suggested that, but just to make sure, you know? :) I hope you don't think I was bashing you because that was not my intention at all.
I realize that your cabs aren't folded horns but the angled baffle is certainly a form of horn-loading. That was all I was getting at. I think it's an interesting design and I'd like to try one! I'm all for innovative design. In fact I'm working on the design of a pretty interesting hifi system.
 
#311
Mark;

This was not directed at you, and I appreciate your response. I just believe that nobody should criticise some product, let it be an amp, instrument, etc., unless they tried it out. I never implemented that the Schroeders are the "holy grail" of cabinets, quite opposite. I am just offering an alternative on a small production scale to some bassists who believe that they haven't found their sound yet, that's all, pure and simple.

thanks

Jorg
 
#312
JSCHRO7376 said:
Again, as mentioned before, we are still in full preparation for the summer NAMM. After that, things will be completed according to priority. There are furthermore no plans to install a rear handle or imbedded wheels due to the fact that the large cabinets are just not big enough; pop out casters are being offered. Due to the limited production there is currently nothing in stock. New cabinets will be shipped in the 1st week of August.

Thanks everyone for their patience.

Sincerely,

Jorg
Click to expand...
I agree. I rented an Ampeg SVT410HLF which is a good deal bigger than the biggest of these and I had to stoop way over into a very uncomfortable position to tilt and roll it. Its also worth noting that Im 5'7"-5'8" so a taller person (which is a lot of people) would be even more hunched over and more uncomfortable.
 
#313
One spec I'm confused about from the website:
it looks like the wattage ratings of the cabinets are simply the sum of the speakers.
e.g. the 1210 is 500 + 350 = 850.

But wait a minute. Given two bass drivers in one cab, wouldn't the maximum safe wattage be twice the smaller of the two?
i.e. if you feed 700 watts to a pair of drivers with the same impedance, ohm's law tells us that each driver sees exactly half the current (wired in parallel) or half the voltage (in series). Either way, when you feed those two drivers a total of 700 watts, the driver rated at 350 watts is at its max rating. At 850 total, each driver is getting 425 and you've exceeded the capacity of the 350-watt driver.

If the above reasoning is correct, I would expect the wattage ratings of the 1010, 1210, and 1212 to be 700, 700, and 1000 respectively.

Not that there's likely to be much sonic difference between 700 watts and 850 watts :-)

Jorg, care to tell me why I'm wrong?
 
#315
SMASH said:
Will anyone *seriously* let me come over and put 1600 or only a mere 1200 watts into any single cab they own? How about "only" the wattage from a Mesa 400+ or similar tube amp? I'll just slap and pop a few notes down low, then I'll even help you pick up the thousand or so pieces of your cabs and give you a ride to the speaker reconing depot.

No offense, but c'mon guys can we keep this within the realm of reality? It makes no sense to me that some of the same guys - I don't mean the above posts in this thread so much as those kinds of posts in general seen in most threads - that poo poo "stats" turn around and throw out completely unrealistic stats of their own. Your "1600 watt" amp is not putting out 1600 watts if you have the pre on 4 and the vol on 2. In fact I very seriously doubt a "1600 watt" amp puts out half that in true vol/power even when cranked given the common propensity for amp manufacturers (car, home, and music) to make up ratings but that's another thread. I respectfully suggest you don't believe everything you read.

...
Much thanks.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I hope to try on July 31st at a DFW bassists get together (there is supposed to be a 400+ there).

I suggest you ask Bob Lee if QSC's stats/specs are unrealistic.

I would actually prefer a 2800W amp because I'm a believer in having plenty of headroom.

Just for the record, the loudest I've run my rig with the 410 is SR5 volume max'd, Dem 201S volume at 2 o'clock, and PLX1602 gain max'd...it was freaking LOUD with no signs or sounds of stress.
Was that 1400 or 1600W into the cab?
No way. Just giving a (rather vague) reference point and clarifying what was meant in earlier posts.
 
#316
slinkp said:
One spec I'm confused about from the website:
it looks like the wattage ratings of the cabinets are simply the sum of the speakers.
e.g. the 1210 is 500 + 350 = 850.

But wait a minute. Given two bass drivers in one cab, wouldn't the maximum safe wattage be twice the smaller of the two?
i.e. if you feed 700 watts to a pair of drivers with the same impedance, ohm's law tells us that each driver sees exactly half the current (wired in parallel) or half the voltage (in series). Either way, when you feed those two drivers a total of 700 watts, the driver rated at 350 watts is at its max rating. At 850 total, each driver is getting 425 and you've exceeded the capacity of the 350-watt driver.

If the above reasoning is correct, I would expect the wattage ratings of the 1010, 1210, and 1212 to be 700, 700, and 1000 respectively.

Not that there's likely to be much sonic difference between 700 watts and 850 watts :-)

Jorg, care to tell me why I'm wrong?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same, and I do believe that you're right. However, I don't think the extra watts going to the 10" will cause a problem, but then again... it might.
 
#318
slinkp said:
One spec I'm confused about from the website:
it looks like the wattage ratings of the cabinets are simply the sum of the speakers.
e.g. the 1210 is 500 + 350 = 850.

But wait a minute. Given two bass drivers in one cab, wouldn't the maximum safe wattage be twice the smaller of the two?
i.e. if you feed 700 watts to a pair of drivers with the same impedance, ohm's law tells us that each driver sees exactly half the current (wired in parallel) or half the voltage (in series). Either way, when you feed those two drivers a total of 700 watts, the driver rated at 350 watts is at its max rating. At 850 total, each driver is getting 425 and you've exceeded the capacity of the 350-watt driver.

If the above reasoning is correct, I would expect the wattage ratings of the 1010, 1210, and 1212 to be 700, 700, and 1000 respectively.

Not that there's likely to be much sonic difference between 700 watts and 850 watts :-)

Jorg, care to tell me why I'm wrong?
Click to expand...
Well I'm one of the blokes who has been asking for specs. If ever there was a spec that you should use only as a rough guide, it's wattage ratings. At the end of the day they're just an indication of the speakers thermal rating, the point where the adhesives start to let go etc. In practice there are too many variables to make these wattage rating meaningful. I've reun the numbers on some 600w drivers that hit x-max (distortion) at a mere 120w. I've also used some older JBL speakers that are rated at 150w but have the ability to take much more. As as mantioned, the wattage delivery from the amp in normal playing conditions is not constant, so your 1200w anp may only be putting out 50w most of the gig.

So while technically you may have a point, I think that the difference in the Schroeder wattage ratings is negligible.
 
#320
In this long thread the schroeders have been compared and A/B'ed by their current owners with several other cabinet brands, and I believe that should give a lot of TBers already a pretty good idea relating to their power, wattage, sound and performance. Configurations, such as a 12/10s, 15/10s, 18/10s and 10/5s are nothing new, i.e. Peavey, Bergantino, GK, Euphonic Audio, ACME, Accu Groove...........and the line goes on and on.

:)
 
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