• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

serious opportunity- what to know legally

#41
I don't know much about the music business either but I've always heard people say to be wary, especially about any long term deals. Sign the wrong paper and someone can literally own you.

Are you suspicious that some band is being formed with a path to stardom and "your friend" has been tasked with finding a bass player for them, and is calling you asking for a percentage just to get an audition. What if you sign something and find out that they suck, or that you can't stand them. What if they don't like your playing or your look or your personality. Are you still obligated financially. Is "your Friend" the only person who has a say who the bass player is going to be, that seems unlikely too.

I would be wanting many more details before I signed anything. 20% life time agreement just to introduce you to the band, I think you know this sounds bogus and that's why you posted the thread. So say the guy that introduced Bill Wyman to the Rolling Stones got 20% life time. "You friend" doesn't seem to be taking any risk or really doing any work. It's likely he is just fishing and hoping for an easy payoff, and I would wonder if the band is paying him as well to find a bass player for them.

There are lots of red flags I am seeing here. I know you don't want to pass on a once in a lifetime opportunity, but scammers know this and that's part of their angle.
 
#42
20% in perpetuity just to make a connection is absolutely ********. I think managers typically get around 10, and that is for working for you constantly, and improving your career. This guy is doing what? Sending your phone number to this band? And he's going to get potentially 10s of 1000s of dollars for that? No.

I say, if you want to be EXTREMELY generous, you could write up a contract where if you get the gig, after you make your first $10k, he gets a one time $500-1000 payoff and that's it. I mean, if I refer someone to a band and they get the gig and then a few months or a year later I get a check for $500-1k, I'd be thrilled about it.

Bottom line is he isn't your manager, he isn't acting like he is (putting his own greed way ahead of your career goals), nor should he be. He's taking advantage of his perceived position as "gatekeeper" between this phantom band and you, and exploiting (or trying very hard at any rate) your eagerness to "hit the big time".

What is this guy's connection to this cross country band, anyway? If you sign your life away in blood is he going to email you an LA craigslist ad and say "here you go"? I think you need more details about the opportunity itself and his connection to it, and what exactly he would be doing for you before making any kind of agreement. If you have those details, you should share them with us so that we can guide you in the right direction (which I'm guessing we already are since everyone seems to basically be on the same page).
 
#44
hernameisrio said:
He is a "friend" in the sense of, the kind who can be notoriously impossible to get along with, who breaks plans, who gives people the silent treatment when there is too much going on in his life, all the while claiming, "I want to see you happy."
Click to expand...



#1. This clown is NOT a friend. An acquaintance sure, but certainly not a "friend".

#2. A referral fee, or "bird dog" fee is one thing, a 20% cut of everything you could potentially earn is preposterous.


Chances are that this "incredible opportunity" will never come to fruition.

Just my 2 cents, and I will only charge you 5% of any and all future earnings for posting this.
 
#47
I get that it's dickish to expect a "friend" to pay a percentage going forward. But, if you already have a strained relationship, and he's getting you a gig that you couldn't get yourself, it's a justified business expense and he's entitled to compensation as an agent. That's what they do--find people work in exchange for money. It really doesn't matter if you are the only one he's doing it for. Doing an endgame around him to cut him out is just as dickish if he's the only reason you are even in consideration. Who is to say he can even deliver?

That said, you shouldn't sign anything without a lawyer looking at it.

Consider this--he says that he gets a percentage of "anything you earn with the artist." What does that consist of? If you make a contact with another band and end up leaving this group and joining the other one, will your friend expect his percentage to continue since "You never would have met that band without my getting you the first one, right?"


Was 20% the actual number the guy stated, or was that just used as an example in the thread? I keep seeing people quote it as unreasonable, but I don't see where the guy actually said that.

True, or not, it's something that would cost you a great deal in lawyers and court fees sorting it out if real money is involved.

So, never sign anything without having a lawyer look at it, and don't even think of doing it without getting ALL of the terms on paper. You say you can't afford a lawyer. I'm telling you that you can't afford NOT having a lawyer.
 
#48
bassmonkee, I don't disagree with you. My only point in bringing up the weird personal friendship end of things is simply that it irritates me that this might be a factor in the way this guy decides to proceed with me. And by "irritates," I mean, "completely crushes my soul."
 
#49
This guy is not acting as your agent, he is acting as a headhunter for the band. Headhunters get paid a one-time fee BY THE EMPLOYER for finding the right person for the job.

If he demands to be paid a percentage of the money you make, I would just write on a piece of paper "I will pay (Insert name of d-bag here) 20% of any income I make from playing with band x." Then just pay him what ever you think is fair. The 'contract' will never hold up in a court so even if you make big money, you won't have to pay him later.

If you do pay him a percentage of income later, I would only pay AFTER you file your taxes for the year. If you get $50,000 in the first year, but only take home $25,000 after taxes and expenses, you should only have to pay him a percentage of the $25,000.
 
#50
hernameisrio said:
bassmonkee, I don't disagree with you. My only point in bringing up the weird personal friendship end of things is simply that it irritates me that this might be a factor in the way this guy decides to proceed with me. And by "irritates," I mean, "completely crushes my soul."
Click to expand...


I get it. But, as with all decisions, you have to weigh the good with the bad. There is a lot of potential for good here. Just don't let urgency and desire get in the way of clear thinking.

At the end of the day, if it pays off more than what you currently make, who cares if the person who put you in the position to get it also gets something? The why doesn't really matter.

And, don't do anything dumb like simply writing anything on a piece of paper and signing it. Especially if you plan on ignoring it.
 
#51
This reeks of pay to play , just on the artist level, not the venue. I would see if you can weasel some info on this band and enter talks directly with them , tell buddy that if he wants to manage you , he has to show some good faith and at least let you know who these guys are and maybe talk to some of their individual representation.
 
#52
Well, he hasn't even gotten back to me since I asked to see something in writing. At this point I'm gonna forge ahead with the audition, which seems to be sort of a formality from the way he talks...but then again I'm not about to trust anything this guy says until I see it for myself. If he comes through by the weekend, I'll see what happens and figure out all my options legally in the meantime.

After all this? No, we are not friends. And if we're gonna work together, I'm sure as hell gonna protect myself. If other people in this business wanna play dirty, all I can do is make sure I've done my homework. :shrug:
 
#53
I'm confused. Do you have an audition with this band? How well do they know your friend? After the audition if they like you couldn't you just get their phone numbers and work with them without any further contact with your friend?

You could always just give him $20. Say you thought he made a typo when he said 20% because it was thoroughly ridiculous and the $ key is right next to the % key, so it was the only logical conclusion you could draw.
 
#54
On the playing dirty front.

When you audition ask the band about the process. Talk about gear a bit. Talk about some new gear you want to buy *if it wasn't for the 20% deal making it more difficult*. They will be like "what?"

Play a bit dumb and say that the guy said that this was the standard deal and everyone had one.

They will likely laugh at you a bit but then mention you think that this kind of behavior will make it difficult for the band to succeed. They should turn on him at this point.
 
#55
I don't know Jake, that sounds a little complicated. As for the $20, there's an idea. :P I am too tired and stressed about other things to really give this much thought. I'm supposed to submit audio clips to the scumbag who's asking for $20, I mean, 20%. I'll go ahead and do that and then just wait and see. And get some effing sleep in the meantime....hopefully. :(
 
#57
Yeah, if you get the gig after auditioning then you really don't have to pay him squat since you never signed anything. It might be a d-bag move on your part to not even throw him a 'finder's fee' (so to speak), but his whole 20% thing was beyond ridiculous.
 
#58
At the audition, find out if the band has any contractual relationship with the "friend." If not, then after you're established in the band, it would be nice to send the "friend" a nice gift as a sort of finders fee and token of appreciation.
 
#59
I don't think your friend is a scumbag I think like you he has no experience in these matters I think he deserves "something" if this deal turns into a huge opportunity that you wouldn't have without him? get it worked out music opportunity's are not abundant ask the millions of bands trying to make it after years and years of going nowhere or you could cut your stress level to zero and say "no thanks".
 
#60
I'm a European Civil Law legal system legal scholar, specializing in law of contracts and damages.

You need to get professional help, stat. There are jurisdictions where, if you keep on talking with your 'friend' and join the band, the contract between you two will be seen to have been concluded (entered into) implicitly. Or, you might be liable for a lot of money based on just the negotiations alone.

Do NOT trust the legal advice in this thread. Esp. the advice saying such a contract would never be upheld, unless the advice was offered by a contracts lawyer working in your jurisdiction. Sorry, guys. **** happens in court. And even if you win, you need to pay your attorney as you go... Do you have pockets deep enough to pay thousands and thousands that you *might* recover?
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back