Short Scale Journey Didn't Last Long

[David Ferrare]

Despite my complaints. I feel that the MIM Mustang/PJ is the best Short Scale out there. You can upgrade it with Jazz/Precision replacement parts and its really good quality. It's a great price as well. You can prob find a used one for about $450.00.

P.S. The added bonus is that the cavity is big enough that you can add Active Electronics including the battery!

 

[TJL]

I have had plenty of short scale basses over the years, but have found them to have intonation issues and they just plain don't have the resonance of a 34" scale. When I say intonation issues, I mean that slight movements of my hand or the pressure on the strings can cause the bass to go sharp. It is a hassle I don't need, especially in the studio.
Neck dive is less of a scale issue than a design issue. The body and upper horn in relation to where the neck sits is the key to getting it right, or getting it "horribly" wrong. This is something you found out in your quest. I am not willing to compromise tone for comfort, so I will either push through the pain, or just pull up a chair. I take my cues from Anthony Jackson, who has never stood on a gig as far as I can remember. While I have had a few Alembic short scales that were incredibly good, I still prefer the sound of a long scale, and no longer pursue anything under a 34" scale.

 

[mmbass21]

Acinonyx is the best short scale bass I've ever played and before you write off short scales you should definitely try one. They just came out with the first run so not a lot in the wild but it's simply blown me away with how good it is.

 

[jdcraignh]

Neck dive? What neck dive?
(I've gotten fat!)
View attachment 3989968

Whoa, you must be 10' tall!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

What basses are those?

Alien Audio 30” Lunar and a Matt Pulcinella Guitars Level 5JJ

 

[David Ferrare]

Acinonyx is the best short scale bass I've ever played and before you write off short scales you should definitely try one. They just came out with the first run so not a lot in the wild but it's simply blown me away with how good it is.

WOW just looked. Its really nice!!!

 

[Pete Clark]

Try an original Danelectro Hodad - 34” scale, no neck dive and soooo light. Great sound from the the 3 lipsticks too.

 

[MrBohjangles]

Everyone here is probably a better bass player than me, so take my 2 cents for what they are worth... very little.

As others have said, its whatever works best for you. If you don't like short scales personally, that's cool. That's why Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors. But disparaging them as somehow inferior is ridiculous. They are just different. I have a few 34" (Fender Jazz, Peavey Fury, Gibson IV), a hot-rodded 32" (former Ibanez - see pic), and a few 30" (Gretsch Jr. Jet 2202, Eastwood Classic IV). I like them all. Each brings something different to the table. Throw in different combinations of strings, amps, etc. and it's a wide range of options to work with. I say Vive La Différence.

If we are talking strictly about playability, the 32" I hot-rodded seems about a perfect fit for me personally. It has a thinner neck and the smaller scale is a good fit for my old body with shorter arms and fingers. This one did have some neck dive originally, but moving the strap lock to the neck plate solved that issue for me. Cheers!

 

[Janderman]

I bought a Fender Mustang PJ. It was customized with Seymour Duncan Quaterpounders, a Gotoh bridge AND Hipshot lightweight tuners! No neckdiving and the Mustang has a beautiful small neck. A joy to play, along with my Acinonyx.

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

gggg

 

[TimB1226]

Back in the 70’s I had 2 EB3s. Extremely playable Basses. Yes, it was an adjustment to go to a 34” scale, but I’d find it doubtful that going back to a short scale would be an issue fingering wise.

Quick question, do you feel cramped playing a guitar? If not, it’s not a 30” scale bass that’s the problem.

I'm mainly a guitar player, but have had basses for a long time, including an EB3 in the late 1970s (partly because it matched my SG). I loved it, but found that when I played a short scale bass, I sounded like a guitar player playing the bass. (The temptation to try to play like Jack Bruce on "Wheels of Fire" surely didn't help.) I went to longer scales to force my fingers (and brain) into bass mode. But I suspect this motivation for longer scales may be idiosyncratic to me.

 

[artzeal]

Whatever some other manufacturers' "short comings": at least Ibanez has put in the effort to make excellent Short Scale instruments.

The Ibanez Talman 30 and AGB200 hollow body are very well thought out and implemented instruments: They feel and sound great. I'm a big, tall guy, so a bass's size and weight are not considerations, and as much as I enjoy my 34" basses and 27" baritone guitar: These Ibanezes have a wonderful timbral quality that is not easily achieved, if at all on a longer scale instrument: They have a fundamental and lower mid depth that is unique, and a smoother transition through frequency registers and string to string than a longer scale. My concern before trying one was that the lower fundamentals might be weak: but in fact, the bass and lower order harmonics have plenty of heft to them and punch through the mix beautifully. The Talman is a punchier PJ bass type instrument. The AGB200 has a smooth semi acoustic envelope to it without ever lacking note clarity.

It is crucial, however, to get optimal strings: Lower tension flats I find very satisfactory. Higher tension strings can be too bright and middy, and lose too much of the bass and low mid power to higher harmonics.

I would never have bought either of these if they were some lackluster mid-rangey instrument: They have a satisfying low end solidity within the traditional range of the bass, and I prefer their distinctive tonality with some types of music more than a longer scale bass.

I also play fretless (34" scale) for its unique qualities almost as much as fretted .

Some do it all on one instrument. Some of us have a bunch for their unique characteristics. But rather than NOT play bass because one has small hands and long scale basses are too too cumbersome: check out one of these Ibanezes and other short scale basses.

 

[MarMar]

Honestly, I think it may just be that you need to find the right short scale bass that suits you. Here are 3 basses of different scale lengths. I just traded the Coronado (30" scale), so I obviously don't play it anymore, but I play the 32" scale D Huff bass *all the time*. For reference, it weighs about the same as my Precision, but plays easierView attachment 3993787 .

Did your Squier II P bass come with the thumb rest or did you add that? I recently got one in black with the maple neck and fretboard and I love mine.

 

[johnk_10]

i've been playing bass since 1966. i started on a 34" scale St. George. it was heavy (all mahogany) had super high action (neck was bowed) but that didn't stop me at 13 years old. when i got my first p bass (brand new in 1969) i was in heaven. I have 40 basses now (18/34" & 22/30"). lightweight basses have always been my preference. a year and a half ago i made the switch to playing short scales. i just find them more comfortable to play (with my left hand), are usually a bit lighter than the long scales (although i have quite a few very light long scales) and i like their tone just as much, maybe more. 90% of them don't have neck dive, none have dead spots, and overall sound more punchy than the long scales to me.
here's my current list of short scales:
1. 1968 Gretsch 6073
2. 2011 Gretsch G6073B
3. 2020 Gretsch 2220
4. 2019 Fender JMJ Mustang Bass
5. 2019 Hagstrom Viking
6. 1985 Alembic Distillate
7. 2019 Eastwood Newport (modded)
8. 2019 Guild Starfire Bass II RI
9. 1968 Hofner 500/1
10. 2019 Hofner Ignition 500/2
11. 2019 Hofner HCT 500/1 Dark Burst
12. 2020 Hofner HCT 500/1 light burst
13. 2020 Hofner HCT 500/2 light burst
14. 1969 Gibson EB1
15. 2007 Gibson SG Bass
16. 1973 Gibson EBO bass
17. 2020 Gibson LP Jr. DC Tribute bass (gloss cherry)
18. 2020 Gibson LP Jr. DC Tribute Bass (TV yellow)
19. 2020 Eastwood Sidejack Pro (sunburst)
20. 1969 Ovation Typhoon
21. 2020 Custom Telecaster bass
22. 2020 Squier Bronco Bass

 

[G L Raymond]

I have a customized 1st generation Gibson EB 0 with Fender Jazz pickups. Awesome original and unique sound. I have it wired 2 channel to preserve the pickup sounds, 2 preamps. I'll never sell it but the last few years have been playing full scale Fender Jazz basses because I prefer fretless and intonation is easier with a longer neck. Also 5 string and my Gibson is a 4 ofcourse. Neck dive was never a big problem and although the Fenders weigh more the Gibson's can get heavy too on long gigs.
If I was playing 4 string fretted I could stick with the Gibson as fast, intricate bass solos are easier to play.

 

[UberMykl]

Sharing this to see if anyone else had a journey similar to my "love the one you're with" story.

In my head, I wanted a short-scale for long gigs. Never had one. Easy to play, light weight; what's not to love, right? Went to the music store to pick up a repair and, concerned about neck dive, decided to try on each short-scale bass with a strap. Results:

• 2 Gibson SG basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 Gibson LP2-style basses - horrible neck dive
• Epiphone Allen Woody and Violin basses - good balance, but the bodies are thicker than I'm used to, so it would take some re-learning for my right arm/hand/wrist
• 2 Fender Mustang PJ basses - horrible neck dive
• 2 American Fender Mustang basses - neck goes to about parallel with the floor. I guess I could live with that. But as I'm jamming on the first 7 frets, I notice my left elbow touching my ribs. Never felt "cramped" before while playing bass standing up. This would require some re-learning for my left arm, plus the re-learning of the shorter scale with my left hand. I wouldn't call it annoying, but...

My conclusion was, I'm simply not going to find anything that feels as ergonomically comfortable as my current standard-scale basses. And I think I'm very happy with that and just saved myself some dough. Both my current basses are pretty light, but in the last hour of 4-hour gigs, they begged the question, could I go even lighter? I found my answer - yes, but only with tradeoffs that I'm too stubborn to make.

Anyone else follow this path when considering (or trying/buying) shorties?

Purchased a 2020 Music Man Stingray 30" short scale in starry night finish and absolutely love it! No neck dive! Perfect ergonomics! Roasted maple neck is out of this world! It was a bit pricey but they also make a Sterling model Stingray that is very similar and sports a price tag of about $549.00.

 

[amper]

I don't have any problems with neck dive on my short scale (30.75") Warwick Corvette Proline, because the upper horn places the strap attachment point much closer to the center of gravity than you will ever get with a Mustang or SG bass.

The only difference between my short-scale Corvette Proline and a long-scale Corvette Proline is the length of the neck, so the short-scale version, if anything, balances more toward the body.

Mine is a Custom Shop instrument, but the RockBass version is a perfectly competent instrument. I suggest giving one a try.

 

[Stephen Shapiro]

I've only noticed neck dive on a handful of shorties. I really loved the Hofner CT Club Bass, except for the imprecise intonation of the bridge. I currently have a MIJ Mustang and a Lakland Skyline Hollowbody 30 while I look out for a used Serek. Never noticed neck dive on either. Doesn't mean they don't have it, just means it was never bad enough that I took notice. I prefer shorties because I switch between guitar and bass a lot. I also like how they sit in a crowded mix.

 

[amper]

I am only about 5'4" and female, but all of these basses made me feel cramped. What I have not seen mentioned here is arm length. I do have longer arms and I think that, and also a history of playing upright bass, are two reasons I prefer a standard scale bass.

I don't really understand people who say a short-scale bass feels "cramped". Rickenbacker 325 series short-scale guitars (as famously played by John Lennon) have a 20.75" scale length, and even though I am over 6' 1" tall and have larger than average hands for a woman, I don't have any trouble with feeling cramped. Nor do I feel cramped on my 22.72" scale Squier*, my 24.75" scale Rickenbacker, or my 25.5" scale Yamaha guitars.

So, I certainly don't feel "cramped" on my 30.75" scale Warwick bass. If anything, my Warwick's scale is too long, because I keep it strung with cello strings and tuned in fifths, so the stretches between notes on adjacent strings are even wider than they would be on a 4/4 scale cello (~27 3/8"), or than they would be if I switched back to fourths tuning. There's no way I can span from the 1st position to the 7th at 30.75" scale.

* actually, the Squier is also tuned in fifths, in octave mandolin tuning.

 

[chippawajoe]

Thanks, everyone. I had no idea there would be 88 replies and counting, especially since I read the board weekly but post rarely. It is fun and interesting to see the varying interpretations of my message. Not enough time to respond to everything. I appreciate your suggestions. I will continue to try some basses as I encounter them.

I went through about six pages of responses -- all of them interesting -- but found no one who recommended what I finally settled on in my search for the perfect short scale. I'd owned a '59 P bass for 50-plus years, and found the weight and length just a bit much for my diminutive figure so started with a Epi viola bass (too wide but great sound and weight); then an Epi EB 0, major neck dive and (call me crazy) but on a darkened stage I found myself occasionally losing my place on the fretboard, then went to a couple of Squier Jag vintage SS; I kept one Jag and traded the other on a Gretsch Junior Jet 1...it's the right weight, sounds good with flats, perfect balance, just a couple mm wider nut than the Squier but OK, and a cool retro look with the walnut finish that matches nicely with the red Telly our guitar player frequently uses....joe

 

[Corrington]

I’ve never really liked 34” or 35” scale basses. I have smaller hands and the finger spread required to play them is very uncomfortable for me. Not to mention, some of them (like the Fender Classic Vibe Jazz bass) are too damn heavy. I have an Invalid Link Removed, but I don’t like it. It feels too much like a cartoon bass. The neck is too narrow and thin at the nut.

I also have an Invalid Link Removed. I love this bass. If feels great. It’s light; heavier than the GSRM20, lighter than a Jazz. The neck is thicker and wider than the short-scale bass, much closer to a Jazz bass. The active electronics sound good and are hum-free. The string tension is perfect. When I dig in, the strings bounce back (aka, not too flabby). I will say the fingerboard was too square and the fret work disappointing. So, I pulled out some files and a screwdriver and rounded over the edges of the fingerboard and then used my StewMac Fret End Dressing File to round the edges of the frets. Now, the Mezzo plays like a dream. Just for fun, I’m in the process of replacing the Ibanez active electronics with Invalid Link Removedand Invalid Link Removed.

I recently acquired a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. I like the bass a lot, but the neck dive is annoying. I plan to replace the machine heads with something much lighter (e.g., Gotoh GB350s) and replace the bridge with something much heavier (e.g., Fender HiMass Bridge). Hopefully, these changes will improve the balance. I have to say, the rounded fingerboard and high quality fretwork on the SX were wonderfully surprising, especially at this price point. The SX neck felt great, much better than both of the Ibanezs and many Jazz necks I've played.