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Smoking bans in US

#61
This is one of those issues I can see value in the arguments both sides make. Personal freedom vs exploding health care costs/insurance rates, etc. Both have merit.

What I don't understand is how someone who smokes can make an eloquent and reasonable argument about someone else removing their personal freedom, yet not understand that smoking in an enclosed room or crowded sidewalk is them removing my personal freedom not to inhale smoke.
I'm talking about places I have to be. Like the sidewalk, work, family Xmas, etc.

Obviously, not all smokers are inconsiderate btw. I'm not saying they are. Just that the ones that aren't are militant.

I also don't understand why a bar can't choose to allow smoking in their place. People can choose to be there or not.
 
#63
First I'll just cover the facts before I go on an opinionated rant:
1. Smoking in bars/restaurants is banned in California. Even sections at the local casinos try to be smoke-free.
2. There are cities in San Diego county that ban smoking in public (Carlsbad, and I think El Cajon).
3. There are beaches that you cannot smoke nor drink alcohol in San Diego.

Bars sometimes have separate air-conditioned rooms for smokers, if not then smokers just huddle outside and annoy patrons entering the bar. Some folks switched to vaping, which is equally annoying. Perhaps try chewing tobacco. No smoke, just be disgusting by spitting.

Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't smoke in public until you actually see other folks smoking in public.

Just last week some lady lit up a cigarette in a restaurant, it was for the most part empty. The bartender and I were kinda shocked because it's been so long since smoking was allowed indoors. The lady was a bit a drunk so she wasn't really thinking about her habit that I assume she normally does at home.

4. I do smoke.
5. I also eat/drink sugar.

I'm not bothered about the ban. I usually try to smoke away from folks anyways.

Nor am I bothered about the amount of sugar I eat. I am, however, bothered that Twinkies no longer taste like it's going to kill me (tasty), and now it's just tastes like nasty bread with weak cream-filling. If I want to eat Twinkies, I'm certainly not doing it for my health.
 
#64
Here in California, it is illegal to smoke in bars, 20 feet from any door, some town squares and some complexes don't even allow smoking in your own apartment. The vitriol against smokers here is high and you will get dirty looks from lot's of people. You may get some that yell at you directly.
 
#65
blue4 said:
I also don't understand why a bar can't choose to allow smoking in their place. People can choose to be there or not.
Click to expand...

When Eugene banned smoking in bars etc, one of the reasons given was to protect the non-smoking employees of bars & other businesses from being forced to breathe secondhand smoke all day long. They don't have the same choice to be there as customers.
 
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#67
Man, this thread got me thinking... there is a gun and ammo store in the next town over and I went in there once and it was just a wall of smoke in there. Just awful. I would drive 50 miles out of my way to never go back in there. There is a gas station there where it's the same thing. I forget and wind up there every couple of years. I am old enough to remember people smoking on planes, smoking everywhere. At my first job as a bellhop at a beach resort, the front desk clerks would have cigarettes burning while they checked in guests. People would be sitting around the lobby, smoking. I smoked off and on, but the one year that I was smoking HARD, I took a trip to Japan, where there are designated smoking areas and it just became burdensome to look around and have to trudge over towards the group of people way over on the side who all looked like they wanted to quit smoking. The smoking lounges in the airports over there just looked like big glass windows of gray fog.
 
#68
BAG said:
Basically, if you only eat foods that are never advertised on TV there's a good chance that you'll manage to eradicate more the 80% of sugar from your diet.
Click to expand...

I've seen people go from certain death to complete health just by cutting out the processed jazz. I know the sugar thing is real... I am a total carbo-head. Stress-eating cookies. I switched to stevia in my tea last night to help get a handle on this.
 
#70
5below said:
Come to beautiful Kentucky, a tobacco state. Outside of Louisville, you can still pretty much smoke as much as and wherever you like. And it seems 80% of the people do...
Click to expand...
I've stopped over at Cincinnati Airport, which is actually in Kentucky, and they had a smoking corner. They also serve Cincinnati chili burgers :)
 
#72
Yango said:
Yeah, after they discovered what a horribly addictive and poisonous substance tobacco is—a fact that the tobacco corporations knew and exploited... and then vigorously denied and fought for decades.
Click to expand...

And sugar is following in tobaccos footsteps. Almost identically.

My wife is a home birth midwife, and just found this out the other day when one of her client's mothers snuck a newborn some Similac, because she believed she was doing the infant something good. Check out the ingredients in Similac... which was fed to this kid the day he was born. Sorry, but anyone who does even a little research knows that this should be considered a criminal act:

Corn Maltodextrin (35%), Casein Hydrolysate [Derived from Milk] (18%), Sugar (15%), High Oleic Safflower Oil (10%), Medium-Chain Triglycerides (10%), Soy Oil (8%). Less than 2% of: C. Cohnii Oil, M. Alpina Oil, Calcium Phosphate, DATEM, Potassium Citrate, Xanthan Gum, Magnesium Chloride, Monoglycerides, Ascorbic Acid, Salt, L-Cystine Dihydrochloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, L-Tyrosine, L-Tryptophan, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Taurine, m-Inositol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, dl-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Zinc Sulfate, L-Carnitine, Niacinamide, Mixed Tocopherols, Calcium Pantothenate, Cupric Sulfate, Vitamin A Palmitate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D3, and Cyanocobalamin.
Unflavored Ready to Feed
  • Similac Expert Care Alimentum Ready to Feed / 2-fl-oz (59-mL) bottle / 48 ct
And yes... the baby refused breast milk after getting the Similac.
 
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#73
Here in Lincoln you can't smoke in any public building. When they were putting the law in all the bars and restaurants were complaining that they'd have to shut their doors as nobody would go to them anymore.
In fact the exact opposite has occurred. The very many bars in the city do more business than before and there are more restaurants that are doing good business than ever. The last I saw Lincoln had about 900 restaurants.

There is an area in the center of town that's euphemistically called the "Beermuda Triangle" that's within walking distance of the University. It is home to a myriad of bars and restaurants and has been so for at least the 40+ years I've lived here. One thing the smoking ban inside has done is turn the streets into a gigantic ashtray with all the people standing around the sidewalk smoking.
 
#74
Hot Rats said:
Here in California, it is illegal to smoke in bars, 20 feet from any door, some town squares and some complexes don't even allow smoking in your own apartment. The vitriol against smokers here is high and you will get dirty looks from lot's of people. You may get some that yell at you directly.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, it's not your apartment. The complex owns it.
 
Last edited:
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#75
Joe Nerve said:
And sugar is following in tobaccos footsteps. Almost identically.

My wife is a home birth midwife, and just found this out the other day when one of her client's mothers snuck a newborn some Similac, because she believed she was doing the infant something good. Check out the ingredients in Similac... which was fed to this kid the day he was born. Sorry, but anyone who does even a little research knows that this should be considered a criminal act:

Corn Maltodextrin (35%), Casein Hydrolysate [Derived from Milk] (18%), Sugar (15%), High Oleic Safflower Oil (10%), Medium-Chain Triglycerides (10%), Soy Oil (8%). Less than 2% of: C. Cohnii Oil, M. Alpina Oil, Calcium Phosphate, DATEM, Potassium Citrate, Xanthan Gum, Magnesium Chloride, Monoglycerides, Ascorbic Acid, Salt, L-Cystine Dihydrochloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, L-Tyrosine, L-Tryptophan, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Taurine, m-Inositol, Ascorbyl Palmitate, dl-Alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate, Zinc Sulfate, L-Carnitine, Niacinamide, Mixed Tocopherols, Calcium Pantothenate, Cupric Sulfate, Vitamin A Palmitate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D3, and Cyanocobalamin.
Unflavored Ready to Feed
  • Similac Expert Care Alimentum Ready to Feed / 2-fl-oz (59-mL) bottle / 48 ct
And yes... the baby refused breast milk after getting the Similac.
Click to expand...

Wow. What was the new Mom's excuse/reaction?
 
#77
Similar to breast milk, most milk-based infant formulas contain a carbohydrate called lactose, which is the sugar found in milk. In some formulas, corn syrup solids, maltodextrin, or sucrose are used to replace some or all of the lactose to maintain a carbohydrate level, similar to human milk. Corn syrup solids are NOT the same as high-fructose corn syrup.

Lactose, corn syrup, corn syrup solids, maltodextrin, and sucrose are safe ingredients and some of the carbohydrates that may be used to provide calories for energy needed by term infants. All of these carbohydrates have been shown in clinical studies and many years of consumer use to be safe, and support normal growth and development in infants. International Formula Council* (IFC) members select infant formula ingredients for their ability to meet nutritional targets and assure product quality.

Infant formulas are highly regulated and must meet rigorous safety and quality standards set by national and international regulatory authorities, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Health Canada, the European Union and other regulatory agencies.

According to 21 CFR 107.10, the labels on infant formula packaging must declare total carbohydrates. Individual carbohydrates are not required to be listed on the nutrient panel for infant formulas, but are provided on the product label’s ingredient list.

Parents and health professionals can be assured infant formula is safe and nutritious.



Source: Why Doesn't Baby Formula List Sugar Content?
Follow us: Link Removed | nbcchicago on Facebook
 
#78
Alkali Ike said:
Similar to breast milk, most milk-based infant formulas contain a carbohydrate called lactose, which is the sugar found in milk. In some formulas, corn syrup solids, maltodextrin, or sucrose are used to replace some or all of the lactose to maintain a carbohydrate level, similar to human milk. Corn syrup solids are NOT the same as high-fructose corn syrup.

Lactose, corn syrup, corn syrup solids, maltodextrin, and sucrose are safe ingredients and some of the carbohydrates that may be used to provide calories for energy needed by term infants. All of these carbohydrates have been shown in clinical studies and many years of consumer use to be safe, and support normal growth and development in infants. International Formula Council* (IFC) members select infant formula ingredients for their ability to meet nutritional targets and assure product quality.

Infant formulas are highly regulated and must meet rigorous safety and quality standards set by national and international regulatory authorities, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Health Canada, the European Union and other regulatory agencies.

According to 21 CFR 107.10, the labels on infant formula packaging must declare total carbohydrates. Individual carbohydrates are not required to be listed on the nutrient panel for infant formulas, but are provided on the product label’s ingredient list.

Parents and health professionals can be assured infant formula is safe and nutritious.



Source: Why Doesn't Baby Formula List Sugar Content?
Follow us: Link Removed | nbcchicago on Facebook
Click to expand...

It's sugar and chemicals put together by man, who still thinks he's smarter than nature. I'm certain you'll find tons of information regarding how safe it is for infant consumption. And little (though there's still plenty) that says it isn't. There's lots invested in this and it goes way deeper than most people realize, or want to believe. Trust me when I tell you it's much better to give a baby breast milk, than formula. That clip you quoted also says nothing of hydrogenated oils, GMOs, and all the other things added that scientists are just beginning to discover don't work quite the way they believed they did, once they're taken out of the foods they originally came from. The vitamin C in a pill works entirely different within our bodies than the vitamin C in an orange. As does the sugar, and everything else.
 
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#79
David Jayne said:
It's different because it KILLS people other than its intended victim.
Click to expand...
An amazing number of people conveniently leave out this critical fact.

If you sit right next to me and eat an insane amount of fast food/junk food, none of it will enter my system. However, if you smoke right next to me....
 
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