as far as I remember, this forum is not about studio work. Its about live gigs, and the OP has perfectly working equipment that he wants to use. Lets the musicians be the artists and the weapon choosers, and let the soundmen amplify those weapons of choice.
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sound guy ignoring direct out on amp
- Thread starter remainthesame
- Start date
as far as I remember, this forum is not about studio work. Its about live gigs, and the OP has perfectly working equipment that he wants to use. Lets the musicians be the artists and the weapon choosers, and let the soundmen amplify those weapons of choice.
Chef
In Memoriam
Personally, I've never, ever met a soundguy who wouldn't do what I asked, when asked nicely.
Also, it generally makes very little difference to me if they take DI out of my amp, or, mic speakers.
I do carry the DI of my choice for if they don't like either of those, but I can't recall last time that happened.
Also, it generally makes very little difference to me if they take DI out of my amp, or, mic speakers.
I do carry the DI of my choice for if they don't like either of those, but I can't recall last time that happened.
- Oct 18, 2012
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- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
Both 1001RBII heads that I had were made in the early 2000's. Both were noisy when using the direct out. The problem wasn't isolated to one venue. There was noise every time I used the direct out.
My opinion is that you control the signal from bass to amp, after that it's the soundmans option to decide how it gets hooked up to the mixer, if it's becoming a consistent problem then maybe a new tuner with a mute on it is in order so your tuning up won't go through the PA. If a PA guy has to setup and mix 6 bands in one night then running all bass players through the same DI will make his job a lot easier and less problematic.
a surgeon's job would also be easier if he could hack away throughr everything, but he doesnt because it's better for the patient... just because its easier, doesnt mean he should. He is getting paid to work hard, not to work easy
I don't think anyone could have predicted the direction this thread would take...
This has been my experience on both sides of the desk. Every once in a blue moon there's been a musician (rarely the bass player) who's been a dick to me as a soundman or a soundman who's been a dick to me as a musician but these instances are very rare. Most of the time everyone's working towards the goal of having a good show.
You can gain a lot of perspective by spending time on both sides of the desk.
a surgeon's job would also be easier if he could hack away throughr everything, but he doesnt because it's better for the patient... just because its easier, doesnt mean he should. He is getting paid to work hard, not to work easy
Now we're comparing DI's with surgery, Talkbass you so crazy.
A soundguy is paid to get the best sound and to avoid potential problems and any downtime. Maybe the amp would have sounded better but also maybe the amp could have shorted out mid set and been muddy during the time that it was functioning, now multiply that by every band the soundguy has to mix = problems that could have been avoided by just using the DI. I've never run into this problem in all my years of gigging so I don't even know why I posted in this thread, ugh damn you internet you win again.
- Apr 1, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
And off my gig, if it were my band. You think I lug a pedalboard so it sounds better for me alone??!
Chef
In Memoriam
that can happen with any instrument though. you should have your sound figured out before you get on stage.
Chef
In Memoriam
Changing your sound throughout the night
---can be on purpose---
I change the eq, at my bass, often during a show.
Not a lot, but, different songs call for different feels.
---can be on purpose---
I change the eq, at my bass, often during a show.
Not a lot, but, different songs call for different feels.
+1
Whats the point of all the tone/effects capabilities of your rig if they are not heard? I get that a DI box and IEM works for some guys, but I am not one of them.
Yeah, I get it with the pedal board thing. My personal taste has always been clean. Although I am kind Jonesing for an envelope filter.......
It's interesting seeing the other viewpoint. I always just give the sound guy a dry bass signal, and set my amp for stage monitor. (Way too much highend for FOH IMO.) It's worked well for me.
Holy cheez whiz.
For the record, I have never been taken off a gig. By anyone, for any reason. I am a nice dude, people like me, and I do a good job.
And again, most of what I have been saying is to bring another perspective to the table.
Now, to address this. If a bassist comes in with a pedalboard, you gotta take a look and have a conversation. MOST DON'T. And if they do, it's nothing too crazy - a tuner, a comp, an eq, that kind of thing. Nothing that would cause a problem representing their stage tone out front with what I run. Now. If someone comes in with a bunch of drive pedals or modulation effects, or anything else that complicates representation, you need to do something different. In that situation, I prefer to mic.
I never said I ignore what a player is doing. I never said I don't listen to what a bassist wants. I said if I can do the job with what I got and save a couple of minutes, in time intensive situations, that is my preference.
I never said I don't like bass. I love the bass. Been playing 20 years. Love to get a great sound for bassists. Hell, I love to get a great sound for everyone in a band. I just understand that not all things are equal or fair in a live sound environment.
And I never said there is only one way to rock. That was Sammy Hagar.
I will say this, in an original band I was in once, we always provided a stage plot for the sound man, and when he saw my rig, the effects, etc., he made some great suggestions on the spot. We mic'd my cab, ran a direct out of my head, and a direct line from my bass. He mixed the three at the board and HOLY SMOKES did it sound great. Not all soundmen are your enemy, and he knew what needed to be done simply by looking at the plot, and knew his gear well enough to be able to do this and not blow time up. It was a team effort, and I knew this guy had my back because of how hard he was working to get the best representation of our band out front.
So how many of us hand the soundman a stage plot for our bands? I've found it can often answer a lot of nebulous questions for them, and sometimes gives them really great ideas if they're truly skilled.
So how many of us hand the soundman a stage plot for our bands? I've found it can often answer a lot of nebulous questions for them, and sometimes gives them really great ideas if they're truly skilled.
Not necessarily to argue one point or another, but here's an example of a real-world gigging situation from this past weekend that may point out why/how certain things do (or don't) get done regarding the bass & P.A. interface.
The event was an induction concert for my state's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. There were 10 bands on the bill who each got a 30-minute set (including changeover), and those windows were tightly enforced. There was professional P.A., lights and staging and a full backline including drum kit, bass rig, and a collection of Fender combo amps for the guitars, plus a keyboard and a Hammond B3 w/Leslie. All bands were required to use the backline gear -- no swap-ins for anyone including the headliner. Bassists each brought their own axe and the representation among the various bands was overwhelmingly Fender passive 4-strings (P's and J's), with a couple of odd ducks thrown in.
Monitors were wedges on the frontline and at the keyboard stations, plus one for the drums. There was no wedge whatsoever for the bassist unless he was able to carve out a spot for himself on the frontline.
Each band was given a 15-minute soundcheck window (again tightly enforced) the morning of the event. Soundcheck consisted of line checks, roughing in monitor mix, and running ONE song. Then you were outta there and the next band was on. Almost every band on the bill was in excess of 5 pieces and several (including mine) numbered 8 or more with horn sections and multiple singers... so suffice to say the sound guy had his work cut out for him throughout.
The backline bass rig was a new 1001rb, run direct via the onboard DI, and an Eden 4x10 cabinet. No outboard DI box and no mic on the cab.
The event came off fine. We played our azzes off, stole the show and were told by numerous people we should have been the headliner. Stage sound was pretty decent although without a wedge of my own I had to strain to hear the vocals and drums a bit more than I would have liked. I'll have to hear the DVD to know how my bass translated to the FOH but one muso friend who was in the house told me my 78 P-Bass sounded good in the mix -- "warm and fat" in his terminology.
Again, draw your own conclusions from all of this but unless we are all at headliner level playing huge venues every night with a pro sound tech on our payroll, sometimes we have to take what we can get, do everything on our end to make our sound as good as it can be and trust the guy/gal on the other end not to mess it up.
The event was an induction concert for my state's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. There were 10 bands on the bill who each got a 30-minute set (including changeover), and those windows were tightly enforced. There was professional P.A., lights and staging and a full backline including drum kit, bass rig, and a collection of Fender combo amps for the guitars, plus a keyboard and a Hammond B3 w/Leslie. All bands were required to use the backline gear -- no swap-ins for anyone including the headliner. Bassists each brought their own axe and the representation among the various bands was overwhelmingly Fender passive 4-strings (P's and J's), with a couple of odd ducks thrown in.
Monitors were wedges on the frontline and at the keyboard stations, plus one for the drums. There was no wedge whatsoever for the bassist unless he was able to carve out a spot for himself on the frontline.
Each band was given a 15-minute soundcheck window (again tightly enforced) the morning of the event. Soundcheck consisted of line checks, roughing in monitor mix, and running ONE song. Then you were outta there and the next band was on. Almost every band on the bill was in excess of 5 pieces and several (including mine) numbered 8 or more with horn sections and multiple singers... so suffice to say the sound guy had his work cut out for him throughout.
The backline bass rig was a new 1001rb, run direct via the onboard DI, and an Eden 4x10 cabinet. No outboard DI box and no mic on the cab.
The event came off fine. We played our azzes off, stole the show and were told by numerous people we should have been the headliner. Stage sound was pretty decent although without a wedge of my own I had to strain to hear the vocals and drums a bit more than I would have liked. I'll have to hear the DVD to know how my bass translated to the FOH but one muso friend who was in the house told me my 78 P-Bass sounded good in the mix -- "warm and fat" in his terminology.
Again, draw your own conclusions from all of this but unless we are all at headliner level playing huge venues every night with a pro sound tech on our payroll, sometimes we have to take what we can get, do everything on our end to make our sound as good as it can be and trust the guy/gal on the other end not to mess it up.
+1
I have the same thought process. The idea that you can fight with some arrogant sound guy is pointless. When you do that they turn you down in the mix and / or turn up the "suck" knob on your channel. It's far better to learn how to work with someone no matter how ignorant or arrogant they are.
The bass player is not the only person on stage that has to put up with this stuff. Keyboard guys, drummers and guitarists also have to deal with this crap. I have seen drummers complain and act like babies because they have to use a plexiglass sound screen or the guitarist doesn't want the sound guy to use a limiter or compressor on him because he is already using a compressor. But in the FOH it sounds like crap when he steps TS808 Tube Screamer.
Once again. I keep saying that once that signal leaves your amp and feeds into the board and then into the FOH system you tone is usually not the same. You have no control over that. Your tone may be problematic for the room which effects the mix. Everyone has to get over themselves and just just play the best you can.
I think we would.
Funny thing is IRL bass players like me just fine. They know I am a bassist. I get good tone for them, and get them nice in the mix out front. No one get's buried. It's never a clank fest, or just a bunch of sub. I don't work in fartville. It's bass happy time. I do my best to represent their stage sound out front within the limitations I am given.
Just getting beat up here. Hahahaha.
