source audio c4

[In3d1ble]

Hi guys, I've got an issue with Preset mode in DMC Micro Pro connected to C4 Synth. Everything works fine in Device mode and I am able to scroll through all the presets on C4 but today I wanted to name some presets and use the Preset mode and when I start scrolling DMC micro Pro eventually freezes and needs to be restarted to work again.
I am sure I'm just setting something incorrectly.

Anyone experienced this or knows/might know what could be the problem?

 

[voodoobassist]

In this case, you didn't use a usb host isn't it?
I mean, it is the ipad that does so right?

Correct. USB on the C4 to camera dongle on the ipad or phone.

 

[Kamelion]

Speaking of the C4 and its distortion capabilities, can it produce something like a Rat? I've been fiddling about and can't quite nail it. Anyone have any luck with that?

 

[Ibanezer83]

I think so. I had sold my Doom before I got the UltraWave. However, the octave fuzz voice of the Okto Nøjs was very close to it (had those side by side) and I made a couple of Ultrawave patches which attempted to replicate that sound using the ON as a direct comparison.

So I was wondering if you uploaded that patch and if it would work with C4. I'm hoping to get a Okto Nois eventually but it would be fun to see what you came up with.

Also, I know you've made quite a few C4 patches; any chance that you've made one for an MXR envelope filter? I am unsure what shaping is used to get the distinct tone of one Envelope filter vs Another but I have downloaded several of yours and other Envelope filters and none are getting the specific sound of the MXR.. anyone else please feel free to suggest a patch that sounds just like / is the MXR EF. Thanks!

 

[Quatschmacher]

So I was wondering if you uploaded that patch and if it would work with C4. I'm hoping to get a Okto Nois eventually but it would be fun to see what you came up with.

Also, I know you've made quite a few C4 patches; any chance that you've made one for an MXR envelope filter? I am unsure what shaping is used to get the distinct tone of one Envelope filter vs Another but I have downloaded several of yours and other Envelope filters and none are getting the specific sound of the MXR.. anyone else please feel free to suggest a patch that sounds just like / is the MXR EF. Thanks!

Yes, I uploaded those at the time. Use the search function in Neuro for “Okto” and filter by my name.

I’ve also done MXR BEF patches, search for “purple vice”.

They’ll all work on C4.

 

[Ibanezer83]

Yes, I uploaded those at the time. Use the search function in Neuro for “Okto” and filter by my name.

I’ve also done MXR BEF patches, search for “purple vice”.

They’ll all work on C4.

Outstanding! I had a feeling that if anyone had done it'd be you. I assume the cntrl knobs are the Q and Decay?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Outstanding! I had a feeling that if anyone had done it'd be you. I assume the cntrl knobs are the Q and Decay?

Can’t remember the assignments but pretty sure I tried to make it like the original (“decay” on the BEF is actually the resting frequency so I assigned cutoff here).

 

[yakmastermax]

I just got my C4 Synth and I've been having a blast. I tried a bunch of presets, and I found several that I'm ready to start working on a tweaking. A couple of things.

Most of the presets are not polyphonic. When I try to play chords, or when I don't make sure to absolutely mute any and all notes except one in particular, the result is muddy and sounds bad. I would like to avoid "adjusting my technique". A real key synth can play chords, and can slowly layer notes into chords. I want this capability. I know the C4 can do polyphonic. Is it just a matter of flipping a switch in the editor to polyphonic mode, or is it more complex than that? Can anyone point me to said switch? I found a couple of patches that work well polyphonic with chords.

Also, non of the patches I've found can keep up with rapid notes in quick succession. It is almost as if after hitting a first note, the subsequent notes get stuck in the filter of the first note, and so they don't sound right. How can I fix this in the editor? I would like each note to start the filters from the beginning, and to do so quickly. I have already found it VERY limiting how slowly I have to play to make sure that the notes get the sound of the synth.

Overall I'm really excited and stoked! It sounds great.

 

[Quatschmacher]

I would like to avoid "adjusting my technique". A real key synth can play chords, and can slowly layer notes into chords.

I’m afraid some adjustment of technique will be necessary - one needs to learn to “play the pedal” as one would learn a new instrument. This can be a positive thing; playing with (mono) synth pedals really forced me to pay attention to my right-hand technique, both in terms of muting and correctly alternating fingers/raking.

The C4 is primarily a monophonic synth. There are some polyphonic capabilities. The polyphonic note recognition is not as good as the mono pitch detection. You can use the harmoniser to get polyphonic output from a monophonic input, which will get you lower latency.

As for learning the settings, I’d recommend watching Zach Rizer’s (@Proton Lenny ) YouTube tutorial on the C4.

 

[sunbeast]

I just got my C4 Synth and I've been having a blast. I tried a bunch of presets, and I found several that I'm ready to start working on a tweaking. A couple of things.

Most of the presets are not polyphonic. When I try to play chords, or when I don't make sure to absolutely mute any and all notes except one in particular, the result is muddy and sounds bad. I would like to avoid "adjusting my technique". A real key synth can play chords, and can slowly layer notes into chords. I want this capability. I know the C4 can do polyphonic. Is it just a matter of flipping a switch in the editor to polyphonic mode, or is it more complex than that? Can anyone point me to said switch? I found a couple of patches that work well polyphonic with chords.

Also, non of the patches I've found can keep up with rapid notes in quick succession. It is almost as if after hitting a first note, the subsequent notes get stuck in the filter of the first note, and so they don't sound right. How can I fix this in the editor? I would like each note to start the filters from the beginning, and to do so quickly. I have already found it VERY limiting how slowly I have to play to make sure that the notes get the sound of the synth.

Overall I'm really excited and stoked! It sounds great.

Most of the synth voices in the C4 are monophonic- the only polyphonic voice is when you choose "Polyphonic Pitch" as any of the 4 voices, or when using your clean bass into the distortion/filter blocks. The C4 was designed to emulate a simple (but very tweakable) analog subtractive-synth signal chain, and a majority of those types of units (including most Moog synths) have historically been monophonic at least until the last decade or so.

Unlike a modern digital polyphonic synth where every key simply triggers an internal sound/pitch attached to that key (no pitch tracking required), the C4 has to recognize your instrument's pitch first then trigger an internal sound at the pitch you played at- that recognition part isn't instantaneous, the accuracy of tracking isn't perfect, and polyphonic pitch recognition is even slower and less accurate (more audible latency between playing and triggering and higher likelihood of triggering notes incorrectly). Source Audio chose to favor monophonic sounds and faster/more-accurate tracking for their synth. It still requires being careful with your input signal for ideal tracking, as a signal with alot of harmonic content or unclean playing is likely to confuse the pitch recognition algorithm (something that will happen with EVERY digital pitch-tracking synth pedal). I can't really think of too many guitar synth pedals that take well to just playing normally without "adjusting your technique" to some degree- that's just the nature of the technology.

If you really need reliably tracked polyphonic synth your best bet by far is a keyboard synth (even the cheapest Behringer or Casio will trigger faster and more accurately than the best pitch-tracking synth pedal or software out there), but if you need a pedal that makes polyphonic sounds from your bass then your best bet is probably one of the newer Boss synth units, but it will come at the expense of alot of the tones and tweakability of the C4. Alternatively you can also set up patches in the C4 to play chords using the 4 voices configured to different intervals, and there is even a key-harmonization feature so that your chord voices will remain in the key you choose as you move through notes.

 

[yakmastermax]

Hmm so the patch titled Simple Bit Crusher tracks polyphonically very nicely on my bass. I like it a lot. It sounds good and responds basically as fast as I can play.

There is another patch titled House Bass Stab that also sounds great, but it imposes a sort of speed limit on my playing, and of course it would be awesome to allow it to track polyphonically like the Simple Bit Crusher.

Any suggestions on where to start tweaking the House Bass Stab to get it to work how I would like?

Similarly the Madness By Muse patch sounds awesome, but also won't track more than one note at a time.

Thanks guys!

 

[sunbeast]

Hmm so the patch titled Simple Bit Crusher tracks polyphonically very nicely on my bass. I like it a lot. It sounds good and responds basically as fast as I can play.

There is another patch titled House Bass Stab that also sounds great, but it imposes a sort of speed limit on my playing, and of course it would be awesome to allow it to track polyphonically like the Simple Bit Crusher.

Any suggestions on where to start tweaking the House Bass Stab to get it to work how I would like?

Similarly the Madness By Muse patch sounds awesome, but also won't track more than one note at a time.

Thanks guys!

The Bit Crusher is likely not using any synthesized voices- it is using your clean bass as the voice and running it through the bitcrusher option in the distortion section and probably one of the filter options as well. Any patch you make using your dry bass into just distortion and/or filter should similarly "track" as fast as you play and polyphonically as it isn't actually tracking/synthesizing your notes.

As far as cleaning up the speed of tracking synthesized voices, what needs to be done will depend on your playing, your bass, and anything else you have engaged before the C4. Make sure to set the input gain and sensitivity as described in the manual, generally try to feed the pedal a fairly fundamental-rich signal (favor the neck pickup and roll off extra treble/mids before the input of the pedal- palm muting works great to tighten the input signal), and play cleanly without excessive sustain between notes (staccato playing will tend to track better than sustained notes). Also experiment with the "Pitch Detector Control" options in the Neuro app to optimize to your instrument.

Nearly all the settings in each preset are going to be preset-dependent (even the input gain is saved in each community preset and will need to be configured to your bass and resaved every time you save a preset), so if you find that some patches track better than others you can look at their settings in the app and experiment with matching those settings to other patches.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Hmm so the patch titled Simple Bit Crusher tracks polyphonically very nicely on my bass. I like it a lot. It sounds good and responds basically as fast as I can play.

If this is a patch which doesn’t use any of the synth oscillators, then it will play instantaneously. The sample rate reducer is just one of the distortion engines and so doesn’t rely on pitch detection.

 

[rsmith601]

The Bit Crusher is likely not using any synthesized voices- it is using your clean bass as the voice and running it through the bitcrusher option in the distortion section and probably one of the filter options as well. Any patch you make using your dry bass into just distortion and/or filter should similarly "track" as fast as you play and polyphonically as it isn't actually tracking/synthesizing your notes.

As far as cleaning up the speed of tracking synthesized voices, what needs to be done will depend on your playing, your bass, and anything else you have engaged before the C4. Make sure to set the input gain and sensitivity as described in the manual, generally try to feed the pedal a fairly fundamental-rich signal (favor the neck pickup and roll off extra treble/mids before the input of the pedal- palm muting works great to tighten the input signal), and play cleanly without excessive sustain between notes (staccato playing will tend to track better than sustained notes). Also experiment with the "Pitch Detector Control" options in the Neuro app to optimize to your instrument.

Nearly all the settings in each preset are going to be preset-dependent (even the input gain is saved in each community preset and will need to be configured to your bass and resaved every time you save a preset), so if you find that some patches track better than others you can look at their settings in the app and experiment with matching those settings to other patches.

Wow. Great responses from you and @Quatschmacher !!

Thank you.

 

[bassbrad]

Welcome @yakmastermax to the wonderful world of the C4 Synth pedal. You are in the getting to know you phase with the pedal and understanding what the pedal can and cannot do and how it processes you signal to get a resulting sound. There are various processing blocks some of them can handle polyphonic input source with nuanced playing while others require single notes and precision for best results. There are Four Voice Control Blocks if one of the oscillator or synth voices* is selected you will need to play precise single notes for best performance. *Synth voices are SAW, SINE, SQUARE or MONO PITCH.

There is a lot to learn about the C4 Synth (and almost every other SA pedal) so be patient and explore the manual, videos and feel free to ask questions. This pedal was designed by a brilliant group of musicians and engineers with lots of complexity so for mere mortals, speaking for myself, it takes a great bit to grok but it is very well worth it for the sounds.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Have a question for the c4 users. Might sound a bit weird … I’m trying to consolidate as much as I can on my pedalboard to have as much of what I want on a small practical pedalboard. There’s a certain tone I’m getting involving a Morley aby switcher splitting my signal to a pedal pre that does not merge back into my main signal. Basically a 2 channel setup like if I was doing aby with 2 amps. Just recently got my c4 and was messing around with it today and looking at that second output I’m not currently using and thinking about how programmable it is.. I’m curious if there is a way to make presets controlling when the outputs are each on in order to customize presets to use it like an aby splitter. For example

1 output 1 used like normal for majority of c4 sounds but with output 2 muted so it’s connected but not sending anything

2 output 1 muted but output 2 on

3 both on with both outputs dry

4 both on with the c4 effect only applied to output 1 and output 2 on sending a dry signal out. So I could use the c4 sounds on my main signal chain to my amp but could send a dry signal out of output 2

Then I could just switch sounds via midi

 

[Quatschmacher]

Have a question for the c4 users. Might sound a bit weird … I’m trying to consolidate as much as I can on my pedalboard to have as much of what I want on a small practical pedalboard. There’s a certain tone I’m getting involving a Morley aby switcher splitting my signal to a pedal pre that does not merge back into my main signal. Basically a 2 channel setup like if I was doing aby with 2 amps. Just recently got my c4 and was messing around with it today and looking at that second output I’m not currently using and thinking about how programmable it is.. I’m curious if there is a way to make presets controlling when the outputs are each on in order to customize presets to use it like an aby splitter. For example

1 output 1 used like normal for majority of c4 sounds but with output 2 muted so it’s connected but not sending anything

2 output 1 muted but output 2 on

3 both on with both outputs dry

4 both on with the c4 effect only applied to output 1 and output 2 on sending a dry signal out. So I could use the c4 sounds on my main signal chain to my amp but could send a dry signal out of output 2

Then I could just switch sounds via midi

This is all possible. What exactly would you be doing in number 2? Would output 2 be sending dry only or would it be sending a C4 sound?

If using something like a Morningstar controller, you should even be able to program it such that it doesn’t require an extra preset for each scenario, providing you set up the C4’s MIDI map. Output on/off and routing can be done via CCs.

 

[Nephilymbass]

This is all possible. What exactly would you be doing in number 2? Would output 2 be sending dry only or would it be sending a C4 sound?

If using something like a Morningstar controller, you should even be able to program it such that it doesn’t require an extra preset for each scenario, providing you set up the C4’s MIDI map. Output on/off and routing can be done via CCs.

Output 2 would always be either dry or muted, never passing the c4 sound out. Output 1 would be c4 sound, dry, or muted.


I’m basically using a clean and dirty amp setup but for the dirty amp I’m actually using a pedal pre/Di instead of a another amp. The real amp I use (Mesa subway) has an aux in which I use to combine them after the real amps pre amp section which is how I’m able to monitor the dirty di while keeping the xlr outs for each isolated.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Output 2 would always be either dry or muted, never passing the c4 sound out. Output 1 would be c4 sound, dry, or muted.

I’m basically using a clean and dirty amp setup but for the dirty amp I’m actually using a pedal pre/Di instead of a another amp. The real amp I use (Mesa subway) has an aux in which I use to combine them after the real amps pre amp section which is how I’m able to monitor the dirty di while keeping the xlr outs for each isolated.

OK. That should all be possible then. What controller are you using?

 

[Nephilymbass]

OK. That should all be possible then. What controller are you using?

Haven’t gotten one yet. I just recently got the c4 and none of my other pedals are midi So I’m just now looking into those. Looks like the dmc micro or micro pro might do the trick. But I’m curious what other midi controllers are compatible. I don’t think I’d mount any that are bigger than the micro on my board because of space issues but if something like the tech 21 midi moose which I seem to be able to find plenty of for sale used at a good price is compatable so Id have more footwitches to select presets without scrolling that might work better for my use. Im definitely not planning on using a hundred something presets but quickly being able to jump around between a few would be nice. I’m thinking if I got one shaped like the midi moose I could just keep a 1/4” piece of foam in my pedaltrain mini case and stack the midi controller on top of my pedals protecting them with the foam between for transport and then just have it on the floor when playing.