source audio c4

[Quatschmacher]

The oscillators on the FI and the C4 should be similar. Bob Chidlaw totally knows his stuff on our side. Just look at his resume. On the FI side, the guy worked on the DI. And the FI is now multiple firmware revisions into the game. These 2 are the best out there. The polyphonic stuff creates bad osc waveforms on single notes.

Indeed the oscillators are incredibly similar, as the files I posted show. I wasn’t disputing that at all. If anything, the C4 has a shade more top end fizz, giving the filter(s) plenty to work with.

In case it weren’t clear, the patch I reconstructed here was from something I made on a Novation Bass Station plug-in (not the FI).

My comment about it being like other patches I’ve posted was referring to other C4 patches I’ve made.

My comment about filter sustain is nothing new. As you rightly point out, the FI is several firmware revisions down the line and itself, until v3, also notably had no filter sustain control; I pestered Andras to add it for ages and he finally gave in (and this was before I did any work for him). I’m hoping for a similar outcome here , as it’ll make this already amazing device even more awesome.

 

[Quatschmacher]

With the filter removed, I no longer hear a difference of any significance. Maybe, maybe the C4 square wave is ever so slightly brighter. But not like I thought before with the FI filter in place.

Yep, as @rsmith601 points out, they are so very similar. These guys know their stuff and I’m grateful to them. We’re so lucky to get to play with such great devices.

 

[Quatschmacher]

These 2 are the best out there.

Absolutely without question!

 

[rsmith601]

We have done 5 generations of digital envelope filters. No one is even close in the pedal world.

Its crazy that some folks complain that there are harmonics in an unfiltered square wave.

A square wave oscillator in a synth should generate a good square wave. That is the point. I have showed the wave form from a scope of the C4.

 

[Ferniff]

Anyone paired the C4 with the Empress Zoia. I'm crazy for my Zoia but it lacks the synth sounds I want so I'm thinking of getting the C4. I also have way too much time to kill during quarantine.

 

[Ferniff]

I'd have to agree here... would be KILLER to try out Mike's ACTUAL patches.

5sg.

He's been doing some lessons and Q&A on Instagram on Thursdays for a little bit. We could try asking him next week.

 

[Real Soon]

Anyone paired the C4 with the Empress Zoia. I'm crazy for my Zoia but it lacks the synth sounds I want so I'm thinking of getting the C4. I also have way too much time to kill during quarantine.

If you can handle the Zoia, from what I've seen of it (principally @monsterthompson putting it to work), you can handle the C4's interface readily. And if you've got some MIDI infrastructure set up already, inviting the C4 into the mix is a can't-lose, IMO. To what degree they'll synergize depends on how you like using the Zoia, but you'll have the ability to feed it raw oscillator signals, envelope sweeps (incl some RAUNCHY resonant peaks), multi-octave sounds, LFO'd stuff, and more. And with the MIDI setup, tempo sync should be well within reach too.

I'd go for a Zoia myself, but have a car to pay off haha

 

[monsterthompson]

I haven’t paired the C4 with it.
Right now, I’m taking a break from running a synth through the Zoia and MIDI controlling the Zoia with Ableton Live. Earlier I made a sequencer that followed the incoming clock and modulated a LPF. I couldn’t quite get figure out what I was missing to get it to reset when I pushed play in Ableton but I think I might have that figured out now.

I just built a delay patch with tails. It wasn’t intuitive but as soon as I saw the explanation on how to build it it all made sense. I’m just working out “proof of concept” ideas this weekend.

It’s a handy pedal. Not the most intuitive, and not necessarily the best sounding or most inspirational, but handy.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Its crazy that some folks complain that there are harmonics in an unfiltered square wave.

Probably a lot of pedal users are new to synthesis so aren’t aware of the building blocks and how those waveforms ought to sound. I enjoyed the video you did on the C4 vs poly - definitely confirmed what I was hearing and why I steered clear of that particular other pedal.

We have done 5 generations of digital envelope filters. No one is even close in the pedal world.

Indeed, these machines are the business.

Having said that, a couple to watch that caught my attention were the Mr Black Fwonkbeta, Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe and the filter in the Meris Enzo - these are some very good digital filters.

 

[Ryan L.]

Mine should be delivered tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, and because I’m much too lazy to do a search, where is everyone finding the C4 to work best in their chain? It’ll likely be the only pedal on when it gets used, so it probably doesn’t matter in that case?

 

[Ferniff]

If you can handle the Zoia, from what I've seen of it (principally @monsterthompson putting it to work), you can handle the C4's interface readily. And if you've got some MIDI infrastructure set up already, inviting the C4 into the mix is a can't-lose, IMO. To what degree they'll synergize depends on how you like using the Zoia, but you'll have the ability to feed it raw oscillator signals, envelope sweeps (incl some RAUNCHY resonant peaks), multi-octave sounds, LFO'd stuff, and more. And with the MIDI setup, tempo sync should be well within reach too.

I'd go for a Zoia myself, but have a car to pay off haha

I enjoy the Zoia because of it's Modular Synth design, so I think I would appreacite that aspect of the C4 as well. I currently have a custom made pickguard for my bass with a midi controller that interacts with the Zoia but I think I'd have to get something so I can use it to interact with the C4 as well.

 

[Ferniff]

So the C4 has two inputs and two outputs. My bass allows me to split the pickups so am I able to process each pickup with it's own synth sound?

 

[AlexanderB]

Probably a lot of pedal users are new to synthesis so aren’t aware of the building blocks and how those waveforms ought to sound. I enjoyed the video you did on the C4 vs poly - definitely confirmed what I was hearing and why I steered clear of that particular other pedal.


Indeed, these machines are the business.

Having said that, a couple to watch that caught my attention were the Mr Black Fwonkbeta, Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe and the filter in the Meris Enzo - these are some very good digital filters.

I wonder if my comment about a "dirty" sound was perceived as negative? That was a least not the attention. As you (and SA) say, more harmonics, more transient and "front end" on the note to work with...

 

[Goatrope]

Mine should be delivered tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, and because I’m much too lazy to do a search, where is everyone finding the C4 to work best in their chain? It’ll likely be the only pedal on when it gets used, so it probably doesn’t matter in that case?

For me? First, before any compression. Otherwise, on its own. Seems to do best when I can control the attack dynamics with the fingers.

 

[fivestringgecko]

Mine should be delivered tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, and because I’m much too lazy to do a search, where is everyone finding the C4 to work best in their chain? It’ll likely be the only pedal on when it gets used, so it probably doesn’t matter in that case?

For me? First, before any compression. Otherwise, on its own. Seems to do best when I can control the attack dynamics with the fingers.

Normally I'd run mine very first in the chain as well, but I've been experimenting with bass > comp > C4 lately and haven't had an issue. Comp first allows me to still keep a fair amount of dynamics (by running just light compression) while also balancing levels between basses before the C4 since it doesn't have an overall input control. You can control input per patch, but I'd rather not have to edit each individual patch every time I switch basses. Compressor first is doing the trick so far.

5sg.

 

[rsmith601]

Probably a lot of pedal users are new to synthesis so aren’t aware of the building blocks and how those waveforms ought to sound. I enjoyed the video you did on the C4 vs poly - definitely confirmed what I was hearing and why I steered clear of that particular other pedal.


Indeed, these machines are the business.

Having said that, a couple to watch that caught my attention were the Mr Black Fwonkbeta, Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe and the filter in the Meris Enzo - these are some very good digital filters.

Filters built with the Spin DSP chip will never match what can be done SigmaDSP or SHARC. Its like comparing a 5.0L DHOC fuel injected V8 with that from a VW Bug (the Bugs were great for what they were, but they only won races in fictional films). Not to mention the hard limit of low 90s dB SNR given the integrated DACs and ADCs.

 

[rsmith601]

I wonder if my comment about a "dirty" sound was perceived as negative? That was a least not the attention. As you (and SA) say, more harmonics, more transient and "front end" on the note to work with...

A square wave without harmonics (aka dirt?) is a sin wave! I don't mind being told our square waves sound too much like square waves!!

 

[AlexanderB]

A square wave without harmonics (aka dirt?) is a sin wave! I don't mind being told our square waves sound too much like square waves!!

I listened to the square wave in FI compared to C4 (provided by @Quatschmacher ), and the square wave from FI is slightly "smoother", also when run without filters.

 

[rsmith601]

I listened to the square wave in FI compared to C4 (provided by @Quatschmacher ), and the square wave from FI is slightly "smoother", also when run without filters.

I have not looked at the square wave of an FI on a scope. I have seen the C4, and it is what it should be: square!!
When I saw someone say they preferred the filtered square wave on the FI to the C4, I was absolutely dumfounded. We are designing modular synths.

 

[AlexanderB]

I have not looked at the square wave of an FI on a scope. I have seen the C4, and it is what it should be: square!!
When I saw someone say they preferred the filtered square wave on the FI to the C4, I was absolutely dumfounded. We are designing modular synths.

To be 100% clear (feel free to check my earlier posts!); I have not expressed any preference with regards to smoother vs dirtier wave forms! (Maybe someone else has?)

My initial question was related to how I perceived a difference in "slam" or "texture" of the deep, synthy sounds. In demos, the C4 seemed to have the upper hand. While there can be plenty of deep bass, I think the presets in FI are less "in your face".

Without using these on stage or for recording, I cannot say which would work best for me. What I hear from the demos, the C4 might be the (slightly) better option.