Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[BurningSkies]

The software may do a pedal read as part of the save process. We don’t know. Hopefully, it’s not a bad pedal. Cables are cheap.

I'm hoping that down the line they actually do an update to this one and make it more MIDI friendly like the C4 or the Collider. I bought it used, but in good shape and it appears to be functioning in all other areas as it should. Also, saving to the pedal seems to be the one thing that doesn't crash the editor & saves successfully.

 

[bassbrad]

I'm wondering if it is something to do with using AS-USB-computer while the AS is also connected to the hub.

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This would be my guess, too many connections may be confusing the poor creature. Some devices just want simple sex.

 

[iTzPrime]

Does any of the pedals have auto gain matching? Meaning no matter which presets you use, the volume that is coming out, is always the same as the input volume? I know the aftershock doesn't have it, and that means it is a dealbreaker for me. Most DAW plugins already have it, and it would help a lot.

 

[BurningSkies]

Does any of the pedals have auto gain matching? Meaning no matter which presets you use, the volume that is coming out, is always the same as the input volume? I know the aftershock doesn't have it, and that means it is a dealbreaker for me. Most DAW plugins already have it, and it would help a lot.

Not as far as I can tell. Would make it a lot easier, but at least having the ability to dial in a level and save is workable for me.

 

[GMC]

Does any of the pedals have auto gain matching? Meaning no matter which presets you use, the volume that is coming out, is always the same as the input volume? I know the aftershock doesn't have it, and that means it is a dealbreaker for me. Most DAW plugins already have it, and it would help a lot.

I don't know of any commercially made pedals that currently offer that feature. I have some top brand digital pedals on my board (Eventide, Strymon, Source Audio, Electro Harmonics, Boss) and none of them offer this as a feature.

 

[Adamixoye]

Perceived volume is a really tricky thing, and context (e.g., your mix) matters a lot anyway. I don't really see how that feature could be reasonably implemented.

 

[Chace90]

Does any of the pedals have auto gain matching? Meaning no matter which presets you use, the volume that is coming out, is always the same as the input volume? I know the aftershock doesn't have it, and that means it is a dealbreaker for me. Most DAW plugins already have it, and it would help a lot.

Only pedal I can think of that sort of does this is the gain circuit on the Neunaber Neuron. On that one, when you turn up the gain, the digital circuit is programmed to lower the volume to compensate a bit.

Gain structure is a very tricky thing, and as soon as you start adding distortion to a signal it really changes how the human ear perceives it. I can understand in a studio setting why that feature exists, but for a live environment with pedals I think it would be limiting. There are just too many variables. IMO this comes down to learning how to use any given pedal properly.

 

[Chace90]

Perceived volume is a really tricky thing, and context (e.g., your mix) matters a lot anyway. I don't really see how that feature could be reasonably implemented.

You said it much better than me.

 

[BurningSkies]

Perceived volume is a really tricky thing, and context (e.g., your mix) matters a lot anyway. I don't really see how that feature could be reasonably implemented.

Seems processor heavy at best. Also, does it amount to a compression scheme or is it something that rides the output volume, etc.

 

[DJCalamari]

I had the same problem, but then I realized I needed a little extra gain to compensate and cut through the mix when playing with the band. Now I run a compressor to use as a limiter so I don't have to worry about it.

 

[yberwaffe]

Does any of the pedals have auto gain matching? Meaning no matter which presets you use, the volume that is coming out, is always the same as the input volume? I know the aftershock doesn't have it, and that means it is a dealbreaker for me. Most DAW plugins already have it, and it would help a lot.

Add a compressor after the AS to rein in the levels ?

 

[bassbrad]

Add a compressor after the AS to rein in the levels ?

I'd prefer a limiter to preserve some dynamics, it would also be helpful to limit peaks from envelope filters. Or just a simple volume pedal or LS2.

 

[BurningSkies]

I spend a lot of time A/Bing my clean tone against any effects patches I use. Not just for level but also for tone...to make sure a sound isn't robbing the bass frequencies and/or the stuff up top.

Speaking of which, I did end up programming a number of new patches tonight, moved over what were my C4 patches to AS(clean)/C4 (loop)envelopes, spent some time doing the 'balancing' (now with additional layer of tone and level adjustments with both pedals). Got those in place on my ES-5 (and new loop assignment for the combination).

Then moved on to grabbing a few AS patches to play with. I'll set up a bank on the ES-5 with some of the new options. Though since I can't do anything the expected way, the sound that I liked the best and got situated the best...is entirely clean but tonally different.

 

[pbfrog]

Finally ordered a C4. Now just have to wait for the store to get a shipment. Either the product page didn’t show back ordered, or I didn’t notice :/

I’m not very patient once I’ve dismantled my board to reconfigure it. Cables all over the place now!

 

[iTzPrime]

I don't know of any commercially made pedals that currently offer that feature. I have some top brand digital pedals on my board (Eventide, Strymon, Source Audio, Electro Harmonics, Boss) and none of them offer this as a feature.

Which I think is a pitty, that feature is so useful!

Perceived volume is a really tricky thing, and context (e.g., your mix) matters a lot anyway. I don't really see how that feature could be reasonably implemented.

It is very well implemented in most professional DAW plugins. it often uses a combination of RMS, VU and Peaks, and works great. Might take a bit too much processing power for pedals at the moment.

I had the same problem, but then I realized I needed a little extra gain to compensate and cut through the mix when playing with the band. Now I run a compressor to use as a limiter so I don't have to worry about it.

Well, most plugins still have a gain knob, that changes the output volume, so it is easier to cut through.

Add a compressor after the AS to rein in the levels ?

A compressor/limiter sadly changes the dynamics of it.

 

[BurningSkies]

Only pedal I can think of that sort of does this is the gain circuit on the Neunaber Neuron. On that one, when you turn up the gain, the digital circuit is programmed to lower the volume to compensate a bit.

Gain structure is a very tricky thing, and as soon as you start adding distortion to a signal it really changes how the human ear perceives it. I can understand in a studio setting why that feature exists, but for a live environment with pedals I think it would be limiting. There are just too many variables. IMO this comes down to learning how to use any given pedal properly.

I was unaware of this pedal...that's actually a pretty cool thing. 24 presets is a solid number for something so small with decent MIDI implementation.

 

[DJCalamari]

Which I think is a pitty, that feature is so useful!


It is very well implemented in most professional DAW plugins. it often uses a combination of RMS, VU and Peaks, and works great. Might take a bit too much processing power for pedals at the moment.


Well, most plugins still have a gain knob, that changes the output volume, so it is easier to cut through.


A compressor/limiter sadly changes the dynamics of it.

I actually prefer the thick, controlled tone of the Aftershock into a compressor but to each his own.

 

[BurningSkies]

Another few hours playing around with the AfterShock & C4. There's definitely going to be a learning curve and looped there's a few things that change...like your clean mix in works a bit differently. Gain staging of course will be a challenge.

...on thing I did discover is that the clean/clean patch I grabbed from the community isn't really an accurate clean. It was driving me crazy, feeling like I was losing my lows very noticeably...I eventually got to digging in and found that the 'sound of your bass' clean patch was actually pretty well high passed up at something like 90hz. sussing that, I moved to the low shelf and then a/b'ed them until they were actually commensurate...which happened to have some significant boost in the low range (set around 70 hz).

I've read through the manual, but I need to sit down and really READ it. I have a feeling some of the controls that I think I know how they function aren't exactly what I think.

 

[JRMK]

On the verge of writing to either SA or DMC support ... but though maybe I'll ask TB first.

Did anyone have issues with DMC.micro and C4? I've connected and used them together for some time, then all of a sudden the DMC stopped scrolling through my presets. I did the whole factory update and repeated setup for C4. Still nothing.

Guess the problem is with SA?

 

[GMC]

Another few hours playing around with the AfterShock & C4. There's definitely going to be a learning curve and looped there's a few things that change...like your clean mix in works a bit differently. Gain staging of course will be a challenge.

...on thing I did discover is that the clean/clean patch I grabbed from the community isn't really an accurate clean. It was driving me crazy, feeling like I was losing my lows very noticeably...I eventually got to digging in and found that the 'sound of your bass' clean patch was actually pretty well high passed up at something like 90hz. sussing that, I moved to the low shelf and then a/b'ed them until they were actually commensurate...which happened to have some significant boost in the low range (set around 70 hz).

I've read through the manual, but I need to sit down and really READ it. I have a feeling some of the controls that I think I know how they function aren't exactly what I think.

I love all the community patches, but I've not had one that I haven't had to tweak and adjust. Which is quite normal. No two basses are the same. Neither are the bassists.
I run two main basses. My fretted bass is loaded with Nordstrand Ceramic dual coils and it's active / passive (although most of the time I'm using it passively with my FX). It's certainly got a hot output signal and I can clip a pre-amp very easily. My other bass is a low output fretless with custom Armstrong pickups (wound to sound like low output single coils, but are noise cancelling). I had the pickups modelled on a pair of Lane Poors. The bass runs through a Bartolini 2 band EQ. Which boosts the output a bit but it's still a low output. So the tonal, impedance and perceived gain from both basses are totally different. Some patches that work great on my fretted bass just don't even trigger or sound nice on my fretless and vice versa. It's not a simple situation of equalising the levels between the two basses. They just behave differently to the same effect and that's that. I have dual sets of AS and C4 patches for fretted and fretless that's I've tweaked to sound similar, but they are not the same.