Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[sheeny]

Have you tried setting up the message via the web editor?

Yes absolutely!

Can you replicate this setup with the same devices?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Yes absolutely!

Can you replicate this setup with the same devices?

Yes, save the single bank you’re working on as a SysEx file via the web/desktop editor and I can load it into mine. I asked you to copy it to bank 28 and save that because bank 28 is empty on my device so it won’t overwrite my own stuff when I load it.

 

[sheeny]

Okay, on the way soon.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Okay, on the way soon.

I won’t get time to look until at least tonight but more likely tomorrow.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Yes absolutely!

Can you replicate this setup with the same devices?

Make sure your MC8 firmware is up to date - there was an omniport bug in earlier versions.

 

[sheeny]

Here it is (Bank 28): Dropbox - Morningstar_MC8_Bank_Backup_File.syx - Simplify your life

Just to be clear, the original C4 preset change command comes from a Bandhelper MIDI preset via a Roland UM-01 returning to the MC8 MIDI in, it then goes back MIDI THRU the MC8 to the C4. This preset change happens via a "Previous song" or Next Song" message command from the MC8 to the Bandhelper App.

The expression pedal message (CC100) resides in the bank that sends the "Previous/Next" preset change.

So the preset change happens no problems (YAY.. CC104 works), but the expression pedal message seems to be ignored?

This happens direct both via USB from the MC8 to the C4 or using a Disaster Area micro.ghost hub in between.

Just confirming the C4 preset is awesome in standalone mode with the same expression pedal connected to the mini trs port on the C4 (and appropriately configured in the Neuro app under external control).

Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI) appears to be unresponsive. The MC8 is definitely sending the CC100 message on Channel 1.

I've also contacted Source Audio support and they have responded with a few basic queries such as "are you configuring everything to CC100?".

 

[sheeny]

Make sure your MC8 firmware is up to date - there was an omniport bug in earlier versions.

Updated to the latest firmware (3.6.2) a week ago.

 

[Quatschmacher]

This happens direct both via USB from the MC8 to the C4 or using a Disaster Area micro.ghost hub in between.

What do you mean direct from MC8 to C4 via USB? That isn’t possible as the MC8 does not have MIDI host capabilities.

Perhaps the problems is in a setting on the Disaster Area product. Have you asked them or other DA users?

 

[sheeny]

I might revisit that one Q.

Thanks for double checking on that.

 

[Quatschmacher]

I might revisit that one Q.

Thanks for double checking on that.

You’re welcome. I’ll have a look at the stuff you sent as soon as I get time.

 

[BunchyMutt]

@rsmith601 Can the slope of the high and low pass filters on the EQ2 (Bands 1 and 10) be adjusted? In other words, does the Q control remain active when bands 1 and 10 are switched to filter mode or is the Q control disabled, making the -XdB fixed?

 

[Johnny Mac]

@rsmith601 Can the slope of the high and low pass filters on the EQ2 (Bands 1 and 10) be adjusted? In other words, does the Q control remain active when bands 1 and 10 are switched to filter mode or is the Q control disabled, making the -XdB fixed?

The HPF is separate from the other EQ bands and, AFAIK, does not have an adjustable slope.

There is no LPF mode for the highest band. You can shape your EQ curve to filter out all of the high end frequencies you want, and should be able to create just about any slope you want, but you'll likely need to use more than one band to get there (I did). You can do the same on the low end, and the extra HPF gives you more flexibility there than with the highs.

 

[BunchyMutt]

The HPF is separate from the other EQ bands and, AFAIK, does not have an adjustable slope.

There is no LPF mode for the highest band. You can shape your EQ curve to filter out all of the high end frequencies you want, and should be able to create just about any slope you want, but you'll likely need to use more than one band to get there (I did). You can do the same on the low end, and the extra HPF gives you more flexibility there than with the highs.

My bad, I meant to write shelving instead of filter. From my understanding of the manual, there are essentially two HPFs. "Input High Pass Filter: Each channel has a default high-pass filter, configurable 10Hz to 80Hz. Note that the filter is always active. Setting to 10Hz effectively removes the filter from the signal."

Additionally, bands 1 and 10 can be switched to shelving instead of peaking. "Bands 1 and 10 Shape: The lowest and highest bands, 1 and 10, can be toggled from a standard “peaking” filter shape to a “shelving” shape. A low shelf cuts all frequencies to the left of the selected frequency. A high shelf cuts all frequencies to the right of the selected frequency."

So my question still stands for the most part - can the shelving slope be adjusted from, say -6dB to -48dB?

 

[sunbeast]

My bad, I meant to write shelving instead of filter. From my understanding of the manual, there are essentially two HPFs. "Input High Pass Filter: Each channel has a default high-pass filter, configurable 10Hz to 80Hz. Note that the filter is always active. Setting to 10Hz effectively removes the filter from the signal."

Additionally, bands 1 and 10 can be switched to shelving instead of peaking. "Bands 1 and 10 Shape: The lowest and highest bands, 1 and 10, can be toggled from a standard “peaking” filter shape to a “shelving” shape. A low shelf cuts all frequencies to the left of the selected frequency. A high shelf cuts all frequencies to the right of the selected frequency."

So my question still stands for the most part - can the shelving slope be adjusted from, say -6dB to -48dB?

I’m pretty sure I read that the Q was active regardless of which filter

 

[Johnny Mac]

So my question still stands for the most part - can the shelving slope be adjusted from, say -6dB to -48dB?

Gotcha! The slope changes as you adjust the Q of the band, but this also adds a resonant peak at the cutoff frequency - there's no separate control to change just the slope. So, depending on your goal, you may still need to utilize another band or two to get the slope you're looking for.

 

[BunchyMutt]

Gotcha! The slope changes as you adjust the Q of the band, but this also adds a resonant peak at the cutoff frequency - there's no separate control to change just the slope. So, depending on your goal, you may still need to utilize another band or two to get the slope you're looking for.

Thanks!

 

[sheeny]

You’re welcome. I’ll have a look at the stuff you sent as soon as I get time.

So I setup a specific MC8 Bank with Four C4 presets (CC104 message), the fourth preset was my "Blinding" preset with the expression pedal configured correctly CC100, 0, 127 Channel 1

All went through the micro.ghost USB/Host.

So pressing a preset on the MC8 now, it changed to the respective C4 preset as expected, however pressing the fourth preset as above with the expression pedal configured correctly (and also selected as in use for that specific preset per the new expression pedal 3.6.2 feature), it changed to the preset, but the expression pedal did nothing.

I seriously doubt whether the MC8 and the C4 via a micro.ghost USB/Host will work with expression pedal messages. What a shame.

I haven't had anyone on any forum replicate or indicate otherwise.

I'm out, and I'll have to reconfigure my setup considering this limitation.

Granted both Source Audio and Morningstar emailed me back once each with very low level queries. Nothing from my Disaster Area query at all.

Best assistance to date has been Quatschmacher (LOL "nonsense" translated to English), Thanks so much for your time and effort to date.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Here it is (Bank 28): Dropbox - Morningstar_MC8_Bank_Backup_File.syx - Simplify your life

Just to be clear, the original C4 preset change command comes from a Bandhelper MIDI preset via a Roland UM-01 returning to the MC8 MIDI in, it then goes back MIDI THRU the MC8 to the C4. This preset change happens via a "Previous song" or Next Song" message command from the MC8 to the Bandhelper App.

The expression pedal message (CC100) resides in the bank that sends the "Previous/Next" preset change.

So the preset change happens no problems (YAY.. CC104 works), but the expression pedal message seems to be ignored?

This happens direct both via USB from the MC8 to the C4 or using a Disaster Area micro.ghost hub in between.

Just confirming the C4 preset is awesome in standalone mode with the same expression pedal connected to the mini trs port on the C4 (and appropriately configured in the Neuro app under external control).

Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI) appears to be unresponsive. The MC8 is definitely sending the CC100 message on Channel 1.

I've also contacted Source Audio support and they have responded with a few basic queries such as "are you configuring everything to CC100?".

Looks like either user error or the hardware expression menu doesn't work. (I only ever use the online editor as it's far quicker.) I loaded the MC8 bank you sent and found that there weren't any expression messages assigned at all for that bank. Did you remember to hit save after you programmed it?

Connect the MC8 to the web editor. Go to your bank. Move the expression pedal and then you'll see the list of empty expression messages. Assign message 1 as "Expression CC", CC number as 100, minimum 0, maximum 127 and channel as 1 (2 in my case) and save. Then it works just as it should.

I've added it in for you here. Just check it doesn't appear weirdly. I've set it to channel 1 for you but on my device that is the FI. Don't know whether it'll automatically show whatever name you have on your own channel 1. I'd hope so.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[sheeny]

Looks like either user error or the hardware expression menu doesn't work. (I only ever use the online editor as it's far quicker.) I loaded the MC8 bank you sent and found that there weren't any expression messages assigned at all for that bank. Did you remember to hit save after you programmed it?

Connect the MC8 to the web editor. Go to your bank. Move the expression pedal and then you'll see the list of empty expression messages. Assign message 1 as "Expression CC", CC number as 100, minimum 0, maximum 127 and channel as 1 (2 in my case) and save. Then it works just as it should.

I've added it in for you here. Just check it doesn't appear weirdly. I've set it to channel 1 for you but on my device that is the FI. Don't know whether it'll automatically show whatever name you have on your own channel 1. I'd hope so.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thanks Quatschmacher, I loaded it, Expression pedal does not work via USB unfortunately. Are you replicating my setup? MC8 with omniport 4 configured for expression, micro.ghost, C4 all on Channel 1?

I use the web editor.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Thanks Quatschmacher, I loaded it, Expression pedal does not work via USB unfortunately. Are you replicating my setup? MC8 with omniport 4 configured for expression, micro.ghost, C4 all on Channel 1?

I use the web editor.

My expression pedal is on omniport 1 but I just set up omniport 4 and plugged it in and it also worked exactly as expected. My setup is MC8 into the SA Hub into the C4 (on channel 2).

Sorry if this is a patronising question but how are you connecting the MC8 to your disaster area thing? As the MC8 isn’t a USB host you need to connect the 5-pin MIDI OUT on the MC8 to the 5-pin MIDI IN on the micro gHost. Then presumably the USB Host port out to the C4.

(Did you say you had a Source Audio Hub? If so, the Micro gHost isn’t really needed as you can route the MC8 to the Hub and connect the Hub to the C4 via TRRS and access the C4’s onboard presets via CC messages.)