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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#11,042
I just dove into the deep end of the source audio pool. I now have 4 pedals and a Neurohub on my board. The pedals are a C4, an Aftershock, an EQ2, and a Collider. Besides the audio connections on input/output 1, the pedals are connected on input/output 2 using trs cables. This way I can connect my mobile phone to input 2 of the first pedal when I want to us the mobile app tweak presets.

My intention is to store my presets in the neurohub and recall them using a midi controller. I plan to store a bunch or presets on each pedal. Then I would step through presets until I find a combination of sounds I like. I can also use the desktop or mobile app to tweak the presets. I then save them in the neurohub. I have a midi controller that will recall the presets on the neurohub. I started this setup by adding a bunch of presets for each pedal from the community site to my library.

There are a few issues I am encountering with this setup.

The desktop is Windows 10. The desktop app keeps freezing up and crashing. This is especially true with the C4. Loading a single preset on the c4 took about 10-15 minutes using the desktop app if I could get it to actually load. I also tried loading them using the mobile app. The problem I have with the mobile app is that it is only one way communication. (At least from what I can tell.) So I don't know what presets are saved or to what memory location. I had better luck with the C4 when I disconnected if from everything except a usb cable and an external 9v power supply. I was able to save all presets pretty quickly. Then I re-installed the pedal on my board as described above. Once I installed it, I then tried to check out the sounds and tweak them using the desktop app. The C4 crashed. I could not get the effects to turn on even with the effect engaged. (I twisted each knob to get it to register the current position with no luck.) I tried a factory reset via the desktop app with no luck. I finally got it working by doing a hardware reset. Of course, I lost all my presets on the pedal and had to re-install each one.

Then I went to setup the Aftershock by using the desktop app. The device driver kept crashing when I tried to save the preset. When I recovered, the preset name would have repeating strange characters in it and the preset would be lost.

Finally, the desktop app would frequently fail to shut down cleanly. Many times when I started up the app, a warning would popup saying an the application was already running. I would then open the task manager and find the application was still running in the background.


To sum up, the mobile app is limited because it can't read the current configuration. Accessing the devices using the desktop app over the neurohub looks more promising. It can read a preset from each of the pedals connected to it, but there is to way to see a list of presets or select one. Also, using the desktop app via the hub causes the app to crash. And uploading settings takes about 10 minutes.

So at this point, I am finding it very hard to use. The desktop app seems vary buggy, and the C4 seems very unstable. (I was almost ready to return it once it stopped working all together.)

Is there a better way to setup the pedal for my desired usage? I really need it to be stable too. You suggestions would be very appreciated.
 
#11,043
monkeyfinger said:
I just dove into the deep end of the source audio pool. I now have 4 pedals and a Neurohub on my board. The pedals are a C4, an Aftershock, an EQ2, and a Collider. Besides the audio connections on input/output 1, the pedals are connected on input/output 2 using trs cables. This way I can connect my mobile phone to input 2 of the first pedal when I want to us the mobile app tweak presets.

My intention is to store my presets in the neurohub and recall them using a midi controller. I plan to store a bunch or presets on each pedal. Then I would step through presets until I find a combination of sounds I like. I can also use the desktop or mobile app to tweak the presets. I then save them in the neurohub. I have a midi controller that will recall the presets on the neurohub. I started this setup by adding a bunch of presets for each pedal from the community site to my library.

There are a few issues I am encountering with this setup.

The desktop is Windows 10. The desktop app keeps freezing up and crashing. This is especially true with the C4. Loading a single preset on the c4 took about 10-15 minutes using the desktop app if I could get it to actually load. I also tried loading them using the mobile app. The problem I have with the mobile app is that it is only one way communication. (At least from what I can tell.) So I don't know what presets are saved or to what memory location. I had better luck with the C4 when I disconnected if from everything except a usb cable and an external 9v power supply. I was able to save all presets pretty quickly. Then I re-installed the pedal on my board as described above. Once I installed it, I then tried to check out the sounds and tweak them using the desktop app. The C4 crashed. I could not get the effects to turn on even with the effect engaged. (I twisted each knob to get it to register the current position with no luck.) I tried a factory reset via the desktop app with no luck. I finally got it working by doing a hardware reset. Of course, I lost all my presets on the pedal and had to re-install each one.

Then I went to setup the Aftershock by using the desktop app. The device driver kept crashing when I tried to save the preset. When I recovered, the preset name would have repeating strange characters in it and the preset would be lost.

Finally, the desktop app would frequently fail to shut down cleanly. Many times when I started up the app, a warning would popup saying an the application was already running. I would then open the task manager and find the application was still running in the background.


To sum up, the mobile app is limited because it can't read the current configuration. Accessing the devices using the desktop app over the neurohub looks more promising. It can read a preset from each of the pedals connected to it, but there is to way to see a list of presets or select one. Also, using the desktop app via the hub causes the app to crash. And uploading settings takes about 10 minutes.

So at this point, I am finding it very hard to use. The desktop app seems vary buggy, and the C4 seems very unstable. (I was almost ready to return it once it stopped working all together.)

Is there a better way to setup the pedal for my desired usage? I really need it to be stable too. You suggestions would be very appreciated.
Click to expand...
Firstly, make sure you have downloaded the latest desktop editor and updated the firmware in all your pedals and the Hub as not doing so could be a potential source of trouble.
 
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#11,047
monkeyfinger said:
I started with a hub. That did not work well. I tried without a hub. It was not any better. Ideally, I would like to install a hub under the pedalboard my pedalboard so I only have to make a single collection when I want to use the desktop app.
Click to expand...
If you connect a source audio neuro hub to your pc via usb cable then you can set up scenes that way and edit all connected SA pedals.
 
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#11,048
Yeah. I tried that. I seemed like the best approach. I would still freeze up and take a really long time to save a preset. Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to recall the stored presets this way. It would be great if I didn't need usb connections to each pedal if I could manage it all through the neurohub.
 
#11,049
monkeyfinger said:
Yeah. I tried that. I seemed like the best approach. I would still freeze up and take a really long time to save a preset. Also, there doesn't seem to be a way to recall the stored presets this way. It would be great if I didn't need usb connections to each pedal if I could manage it all through the neurohub.
Click to expand...
Please reach out to [email protected]. Send them your first post. Tell them Roger sent you! All that you are trying to do should be no problem. Many have travelled your same path very successfully.
 
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#11,050
I recently got a neuro hub and found it initially a bit confusing that the hub does not know about the presets that are currently saved to each individual pedal.

My personal workaround was to go through all my SA pedals and upload all of my favorite presets for each individual pedal to "My library" in the Cloud section. After doing that it was easy enough to just connect the neuro hub and create scenes that combine the correct presets for each pedal.
 
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#11,051
kkenda11 said:
I recently got a neuro hub and found it initially a bit confusing that the hub does not know about the presets that are currently saved to each individual pedal.

My personal workaround was to go through all my SA pedals and upload all of my favorite presets for each individual pedal to "My library" in the Cloud section. After doing that it was easy enough to just connect the neuro hub and create scenes that combine the correct presets for each pedal.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's my conclusion too. Initially I uploaded my prefered presets to the C4 but it's a waste of time as the neuro hub is not designed to access a specific preset from a one série pedal : as I understand the hub just sends info to the pedals
It's frustrating as I thought it would be a two way communication but once you know it, it's ok to use as is... there's always a path even if it's not the one I had initially planned
 
#11,052
Christophe C said:
Yes, that's my conclusion too. Initially I uploaded my prefered presets to the C4 but it's a waste of time as the neuro hub is not designed to access a specific preset from a one série pedal : as I understand the hub just sends info to the pedals
It's frustrating as I thought it would be a two way communication but once you know it, it's ok to use as is... there's always a path even if it's not the one I had initially planned
Click to expand...

You can do this, but needs to be done via a MIDI controller. You can load up the C4 with your favourite presets then use CC commands via the Hub to select a specific internal preset (either by jumping to a specified preset or scrolling the presets - there are commands for both options).

You can use MIDI commands to change parameters on the one series pedals that don't have internal presets, eg selecting distortion model, EQ etc.

Adjust parameters to taste on all connected pedals then save a Hub scene.
 
#11,053
Quatschmacher said:
You can do this, but needs to be done via a MIDI controller. You can load up the C4 with your favourite presets then use CC commands via the Hub to select a specific internal preset (either by jumping to a specified preset or scrolling the presets - there are commands for both options).

You can use MIDI commands to change parameters on the one series pedals that don't have internal presets, eg selecting distortion model, EQ etc.

Adjust parameters to taste on all connected pedals then save a Hub scene.
Click to expand...

Thank you . I have the soleman, the hub and the C4+Aftershock. It's beyond my present skills : i am new to midi
 
#11,054
kkenda11 said:
I recently got a neuro hub and found it initially a bit confusing that the hub does not know about the presets that are currently saved to each individual pedal.

My personal workaround was to go through all my SA pedals and upload all of my favorite presets for each individual pedal to "My library" in the Cloud section. After doing that it was easy enough to just connect the neuro hub and create scenes that combine the correct presets for each pedal.
Click to expand...

I didn't occur to me that the desktop app could read and upload pedal presets from 'My Library' when managing the hub. That's an interesting option.

When I save the scene, where is the preset stored? I don't imagine that the hub has enough memory to save all possible combinations of presets for 5 pedals. I assume the hub just saved the preset number for each pedal in a scene.

Additionally, I assume all presets are saved on the pedal itself, allowing recall from any midi controller using CC values as described above.

When connected to the hub, the desktop app can read from the pedal, so there is two way communication. I assume it is reading the currently active preset.

It seems reasonable to assume that the architecture would allow the desktop app to query the pedal for the entire list of presets via the hub. I am not sure if names are stored on the pedal with the preset. That may just be in the desktop app database.

If it is not currently possible to create the preset list for every connected pedal, it might help if the neuro hub would have a next/prev preset control for each connected pedal, preferably showing the preset name too. That way you could preview combinations of presets. Additionally, it could save a setting to the next empty slot.

So the workflow would be:
  1. connect the hub to your desktop/laptop.
  2. Launch the desktop app.
  3. Create/load a scene with your connected pedals.
  4. Click on a pedal to launch the pedal control.
  5. Scroll through presets, preferably with names showing, but at least the ability to audibly audition the preset.
  6. Edit the preset to your liking
  7. Save as new preset, preferably setting the name in the process, or overwrite the existing one.
  8. (It would be great if it saved the new preset to 'My Library' too.)

While I am thinking about how they could do their job better, :), I would like to add this: please update the mobile app so that it too can work by connecting the phone to the hub or pedal via USB OTG cable. My poor pedals are starting to look like they are in the matrix with all these connected cables!!
 
#11,055
monkeyfinger said:
When I save the scene, where is the preset stored? I don't imagine that the hub has enough memory to save all possible combinations of presets for 5 pedals. I assume the hub just saved the preset number for each pedal in a scene.
Click to expand...
The Hub has 128 presets. Those consist of whatever the current settings of all connected pedals are. (The Hub scenes don't load the presets of the connected pedals per se, rather they recall what state those pedals were in at the time the scene was saved.)

monkeyfinger said:
While I am thinking about how they could do their job better, :), I would like to add this: please update the mobile app so that it too can work by connecting the phone to the hub or pedal via USB OTG cable. My poor pedals are starting to look like they are in the matrix with all these connected cables!!
Click to expand...
The EQ2 can be connected via USB to a mobile device with bidirectional communication and all future SA pedals will have this ability.
 
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#11,056
monkeyfinger said:
When I save the scene, where is the preset stored? I don't imagine that the hub has enough memory to save all possible combinations of presets for 5 pedals. I assume the hub just saved the preset number for each pedal in a scene.

Additionally, I assume all presets are saved on the pedal itself, allowing recall from any midi controller using CC values as described above.
Click to expand...
No, the Hub is saving presets itself. The presets are not memory intensive. The old SB2 presets could be viewed as text files in (I think) XML format, just a few KB IIRC. Even with the additional parameters of the C4 I don't imagine it's that much more. So in order to get 128 scenes you need, conservatively, a few MB as most.

As has been described elsewhere, other than the C4/Spectrum/EQ2 the One Series pedals only store 6 presets internally (3 in green mode and 3 in red mode). There are not 128 presets for the Hub to "read."
 
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#11,057
Adamixoye said:
No, the Hub is saving presets itself. The presets are not memory intensive. The old SB2 presets could be viewed as text files in (I think) XML format, just a few KB IIRC. Even with the additional parameters of the C4 I don't imagine it's that much more. So in order to get 128 scenes you need, conservatively, a few MB as most.

As has been described elsewhere, other than the C4/Spectrum/EQ2 the One Series pedals only store 6 presets internally (3 in green mode and 3 in red mode). There are not 128 presets for the Hub to "read."
Click to expand...

I thought the SA modulation (Gemini etc) pedals could only store three, is no red zone presets.
 
#11,060
Quatschmacher said:
Yes, they have 3 internal ones but I don't think they are recallable via MIDI.
Click to expand...
Adamixoye said:
Not sure, you might be right
Click to expand...
SA's Mod pedals really do need a warm over. For me, the size of the Gemini One Series is ideal for a mod pedal. However...only having three patches is too limiting. What I'd like is the option of a min of 6...but 128 would be better. I'd need to be able to call the patches via Midi CC too.
 

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