Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[bassbrad]

Heaven help me as I delve into MIDI shallows trying to make this budget solution work with my Source Audio Neuro Hub and pedals; Aftershock, C4, Spectrum & Bass Ultrawave. Bonus if I can get my Zoom MS60b to respond but that might be the bridge too far.

Plan B I already know this will work on the Zoom.

FWIW This is the M-vave or Cu-vave Chocolate and wireless Bluetooth MIDI for less than $60 on aliexpress controlled by the CubeSuite app.

 

[voodoobassist]

So is that the cause of the communication problem? i.e. is your controller communicating on a different channel?

No, both on channel 1. Now granted, I'm terrible at midi, but it seems to be the same configuration as in the past. Just trying to figure out if something else in the firmware update changed. My ipad now gives a "this device is not recognized" message, my phone however, sees the C4 just fine.

 

[essarache90]

The easiest path to control both of those SA pedal’s simple MIDI functions (like preset switching) is to get a Disaster Area MIDI controller like the DMC Micro or Micro Pro (or one of the larger Gen3 DMC MIDI controllers if you want more footswitches to work with, which I would personally recommend for ease of use in a live environment). The Collider has a standard DIN MIDI jack, but the C4 can only receive MIDI control through a USB Host device (which all the gen3 DMC/Disaster Area devices have) or via the control jack (which only a recent DMC- apparently- or an SA Neuro Hub box can access). So the C4 limits the controllers you can use unless you also add something like a Neuro Hub as a “translator” of sorts. The SA Soleman would still require a Neuro Hub to control the C4, while a DMC controller could do everything in one box. So the DMC controllers are the easiest answer at the moment

Thanks for the reply! So if I'm understanding correctly, the Collider would connect to a DMC controller via DIN midi jack and the c4 would connect to that same dmc controller via usb? If so, seems simple enough!

Curious about the iPad route as well. I think it's Collider and C4 --> Neuro Hub --> Apple Camera Connector --> iPad (MidiPad app)?

Edit: Can the DMC controller also hook to Apple Camera connector > iPad?

 

[sunbeast]

Thanks for the reply! So if I'm understanding correctly, the Collider would connect to a DMC controller via DIN midi jack and the c4 would connect to that same dmc controller via usb? If so, seems simple enough!

Curious about the iPad route as well. I think it's Collider and C4 --> Neuro Hub --> Apple Camera Connector --> iPad (MidiPad app)?

Edit: Can the DMC controller also hook to Apple Camera connector > iPad?

I can't speak to the iPad implementation, but yes to the first question. And as @Gibs210 has pointed out in the C4 thread a few times, a recent DMC firmware update has actually allowed their controllers to control the C4/Spectrum using one of the DMC 1/4" control jacks instead of USB which IME is a much more robust connection (I've destroyed a few mini USB connectors on my board as they can't handle the same stresses as a 1/4" connector). The DMC controllers are the only ones currently that can control a C4 directly via a 1/4" connection

 

[aglide]

I don’t really get the hatred of the Hub; I still think it was (and is) a forward-thinking idea. How many other multiple-individual-pedal systems allow the quick storing of presets? With other systems, for the most part, one has to spend ages programming messages to recall presets on individual devices and, if one needs to make a subtle change and store it, forget about it.

I feel that the best-of-both-worlds approach of having the pedal presets be accessible but the Hub storing the actual current settings across all devices is great as often a preset needs modifying when being used in conjunction with other pedals, but one might not want to permanently alter the original preset. (Sadly this has been scuppered by the Ultrawave’s having too many parameters for the Hub to recall.) This is kind of how this stuff works in my bi-timbral synths - in a multi patch, one loads from the original preset but then any modifications to either preset are stored as a separate “multi” preset. I wonder if in future, the SA pedals could function a bit like this with all “Hub” activity being handled by one pedal in the group acting as a master to the others. @rsmith601, might something like that work? Basically having any one pedal be able to function as a pseudo Hub when multiple pedals are linked (though they’d need to be hooked up by MIDI or something).

To me it's confusing that the hub actually stores the current state of the pedals when you hit the save button, even if you modify the preset on the pedals themselves in the future. I actually prefer the way it works with the Ultrawave. Just makes more logical sense to me for the hub to simply store a bank of preset numbers to call up on the various pedals for each scene.

It's tedious updating all the saved scenes if you make a change to a preset that is part of many different scenes. It's not "normalized", to borrow a term from database administration. I can create separate presets if I need different "flavors" of them for different scenes. The way the Ultrawave shows up in the Hub's scene view interface in the Neuro app is also cool. Clean and easy to work with because it just shows you some level knobs and the preset you put in the scene. The way the Neuro app expands the other pedals to show you all their parameters is clunky, IMO.

Proper MIDI connectors (3,5mm is fine) and implementation instead of the rather outdated backward compability stuff with the hub is most welcome here.

Unfortunately I think the only reason the EQ2 has dedicated MIDI jacks is because the guts of it are simple enough to have the physical space for them. I was really hoping the Atlas would have them though. Darn.

 

[Rick Penrose]

No, both on channel 1. Now granted, I'm terrible at midi, but it seems to be the same configuration as in the past. Just trying to figure out if something else in the firmware update changed. My ipad now gives a "this device is not recognized" message, my phone however, sees the C4 just fine.

Try restarting your iPad….May help

 

[Gibs210]

To me it's confusing that the hub actually stores the current state of the pedals when you hit the save button, even if you modify the preset on the pedals themselves in the future. I actually prefer the way it works with the Ultrawave. Just makes more logical sense to me for the hub to simply store a bank of preset numbers to call up on the various pedals for each scene.

It's tedious updating all the saved scenes if you make a change to a preset that is part of many different scenes. It's not "normalized", to borrow a term from database administration. I can create separate presets if I need different "flavors" of them for different scenes. The way the Ultrawave shows up in the Hub's scene view interface in the Neuro app is also cool. Clean and easy to work with because it just shows you some level knobs and the preset you put in the scene. The way the Neuro app expands the other pedals to show you all their parameters is clunky, IMO.



Unfortunately I think the only reason the EQ2 has dedicated MIDI jacks is because the guts of it are simple enough to have the physical space for them. I was really hoping the Atlas would have them though. Darn.

Eq2 was a new hardware package, since the screen was a necessity for the eq2, so we were able to go back and make changes to the PCBs to accommodate 5 pin midi. All the other small one series boxes are using the same hardware package.

 

[AlvarHanso]

I can’t see how I could possibly need a better compressor than what’s already in the UW, including the eq. So quite interesting to see how they will top that

I'm thinking it will have classic compressor types as well as the engine in the UW (if not that on steroids). Imagine SA did to a compressor pedal what they did to envelope filters back in 2011 with the BEF Pro offering 23 envelope filter types with endless backpage options, LFO options, and by the end of a decade, they deliver the Spectrum as an envelope filter that conquers all. And I use it most of the time within just a few presets with any tweaks I really need right there. I think most user friendly SA pedal, also one of the easiest envelope filters to dial in fantastic tones. What they did with the comoressor in the UW left me pleading for the next One Series to be an SA compressor, knowing it obviates the need for the 1176, BBE OptoStomp (the image showed optical, and I imagine SA's optical comp will be as good or better than my old favorite workhorse), Diamond, FEA, Keeley, etc. And when owners of those get the SA, they can emulate their favorite sound and share it with the rest of us to explore; but the likely vast controls will allow even more modification and tailoring to taste. But if it's as straight out of the box solid gold as the Spectrum, SA will have a monster on their hands.

I can't wait for this to happen, partly because I want to use my UW more than as little more than the compressor in the clean sound (with a touch of EQ), and can have this earlier in the chain and the split off for my clean amp signal, which currently just relies on the amp's, unadjustable, built in compressor, so that's a big plus for me and my board needs.

 

[Mr. voodoobass]

I'm thinking it will have classic compressor types as well as the engine in the UW (if not that on steroids). Imagine SA did to a compressor pedal what they did to envelope filters back in 2011 with the BEF Pro offering 23 envelope filter types with endless backpage options, LFO options, and by the end of a decade, they deliver the Spectrum as an envelope filter that conquers all. And I use it most of the time within just a few presets with any tweaks I really need right there. I think most user friendly SA pedal, also one of the easiest envelope filters to dial in fantastic tones. What they did with the comoressor in the UW left me pleading for the next One Series to be an SA compressor, knowing it obviates the need for the 1176, BBE OptoStomp (the image showed optical, and I imagine SA's optical comp will be as good or better than my old favorite workhorse), Diamond, FEA, Keeley, etc. And when owners of those get the SA, they can emulate their favorite sound and share it with the rest of us to explore; but the likely vast controls will allow even more modification and tailoring to taste. But if it's as straight out of the box solid gold as the Spectrum, SA will have a monster on their hands.

I can't wait for this to happen, partly because I want to use my UW more than as little more than the compressor in the clean sound (with a touch of EQ), and can have this earlier in the chain and the split off for my clean amp signal, which currently just relies on the amp's, unadjustable, built in compressor, so that's a big plus for me and my board needs.

yes, the placement in the chain can be tricky if you want to use the ultra for many different things.
I have mine sort of in the middle of the chain, in the fx loop of a hx stomp. Using a few presets for clean and dirt tones and using expression to go between clean and dirt.
It works better than I thought, as I usually want compression first in chain.

 

[AlvarHanso]

yes, the placement in the chain can be tricky if you want to use the ultra for many different things.
I have mine sort of in the middle of the chain, in the fx loop of a hx stomp. Using a few presets for clean and dirt tones and using expression to go between clean and dirt.
It works better than I thought, as I usually want compression first in chain.

My UW is currently in the middle, right after the C4 and before the Spectrum. Somewhat counterintuitively, my chain actually begins with the Aftershock, and that's where I split the signal into EQ2 and clean amp, so that may spell doom for the AS to make way for a second Hub...

 

[Mr. voodoobass]

My UW is currently in the middle, right after the C4 and before the Spectrum. Somewhat counterintuitively, my chain actually begins with the Aftershock, and that's where I split the signal into EQ2 and clean amp, so that may spell doom for the AS to make way for a second Hub...

There’s also the way i briefly thought about, by using uw in series mode.
Using first ch as clean compressor, into next pedal back into ch2, and use that channel for final eq and fade in distortion.

 

[AlvarHanso]

There’s also the way i briefly thought about, by using uw in series mode.
Using first ch as clean compressor, into next pedal back into ch2, and use that channel for final eq and fade in distortion.

I've thought about changing the routing options, but it would overcomplicate things, as I have the straight coupling cables from SA connecting them all instead of patch cables. But now I am imagining reconfiguring things as I stare at my board and contemplate adding that new exciting toy at some point in the near future. Thinking of moving the UW in front of the C4 now, so a crazy distortion before a synthy brass may make for a nice rich, thick sound... Another Saturday is about to fade away into Source Audio Sorcery experimentations...

 

[deepestend]

Quick question for your SA wizards. I'm thinking of adding an EQ2 to the end of my chain. I already have a spectrum.

My question: I have a disaster area micro midi controller (not the new one) that I haven't really used yet. I've tested it, so it works, but just haven't gotten my head around it. Can I use this midi controller to control two SA pedals on the same board?

Also, how do people like the limiter function in the EQ2? I'm thinking of using it instead of my compressor pedal. Not going to be as full featured, obv, but will serve the basic function... I'm guessing, right?

 

[jam.majors]

Quick question for your SA wizards. I'm thinking of adding an EQ2 to the end of my chain. I already have a spectrum.

My question: I have a disaster area micro midi controller (not the new one) that I haven't really used yet. I've tested it, so it works, but just haven't gotten my head around it. Can I use this midi controller to control two SA pedals on the same board?

Also, how do people like the limiter function in the EQ2? I'm thinking of using it instead of my compressor pedal. Not going to be as full featured, obv, but will serve the basic function... I'm guessing, right?

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to. You could hook a midi cable to the EQ2 and then a usb cable (or maybe Neuro cable) to the Spectrum.
For the limiter question I have to start with "I don't own an EQ2". But if you're using your current compressor for tone shaping or light compression, I'd say keep it in the chain and test out the EQ2 limiter for just limiting.

 

[Derek Williams]

Quick question for your SA wizards. I'm thinking of adding an EQ2 to the end of my chain. I already have a spectrum.

My question: I have a disaster area micro midi controller (not the new one) that I haven't really used yet. I've tested it, so it works, but just haven't gotten my head around it. Can I use this midi controller to control two SA pedals on the same board?

Also, how do people like the limiter function in the EQ2? I'm thinking of using it instead of my compressor pedal. Not going to be as full featured, obv, but will serve the basic function... I'm guessing, right?

The EQ2 has the option of using a normal MIDI cable, so you don’t need anything special to use it. The limiter is not a replacement for a compressor, it’s fast acting and high ratio, you wouldn’t want to be hitting it very often.

 

[rsmith601]

Thought you all would be interested that we are working on a simple and small MIDI adapter for all One Series pedals. It's self powered and really more of a dongle than a box. Not sure on the timing just yet.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Thought you all would be interested that we are working on a simple and small MIDI adapter for all One Series pedals. It's self powered and really more of a dongle than a box. Not sure on the timing just yet.

So will this require 1 per pedal? Does it turn the control port into a MIDI port? Like a MIDI breakout cable (a bit like those on the Yamaha Reface keyboards)? Will it allow a MIDI stream from pedal to pedal?

 

[rsmith601]

So will this require 1 per pedal? Does it turn the control port into a MIDI port? Like a MIDI breakout cable (a bit like those on the Yamaha Reface keyboards)? Will it allow a MIDI stream from pedal to pedal?

Yes, Control Port to MIDI plus MIDI through. I per pedal..

 

[Quatschmacher]

Yes, Control Port to MIDI plus MIDI through. I per pedal..

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[rsmith601]

Sounds like a great idea.

The Hub is amazing and very innovative....but it is not right for everyone.