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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#13,267
rsmith601 said:
Boss support compliant MIDI TRS, unlike just about everyone else. We are working on a pedal with MIDI TRS and it will be MIDI compliant too.
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There are a few different MIDI specs that you can be compliant with. The cable Boss sells for this usage is Type A compliant. Using a Type B compliant cable with Boss will definitely not work (and I have not seen any kind of toggle for that in the settings).

The new Source Audio MIDI dongle will be great, should just be a simple TRS cable to connect from Boss if it shares the same spec.
 
#13,268
Derek Williams said:
There are a few different MIDI specs that you can be compliant with. The cable Boss sells for this usage is Type A compliant. Using a Type B compliant cable with Boss will definitely not work (and I have not seen any kind of toggle for that in the settings).

The new Source Audio MIDI dongle will be great, should just be a simple TRS cable to connect from Boss if it shares the same spec.
Click to expand...
The reason there aren’t any devices that toggle between TRS Type A and B is that midi 5 pin carries voltage and earth on specific pins. If you plug the wrong type, it can seriously damage your device.
One of the frustrations with FaderFox devices is their use of the TRS type B format, which are harder to source and a lot more expensive.
 
#13,269
GMC said:
The reason there aren’t any devices that toggle between TRS Type A and B is that midi 5 pin carries voltage and earth on specific pins. If you plug the wrong type, it can seriously damage your device.
One of the frustrations with FaderFox devices is their use of the TRS type B format, which are harder to source and a lot more expensive.
Click to expand...
I've definitely used the wrong MIDI config from my Morningstar MC8 to different devices. I've used Type A config with my Darkglass Adam, which requires Type B, with no issue. Maybe I got lucky? In any case, I'm glad it allows that level of configuration.
 
#13,270
Derek Williams said:
I've definitely used the wrong MIDI config from my Morningstar MC8 to different devices. I've used Type A config with my Darkglass Adam, which requires Type B, with no issue. Maybe I got lucky? In any case, I'm glad it allows that level of configuration.
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Short term, plugging in a powered TRS to Midi A into a B connector isn't going to fry anything instantly. But over 6 months it might well burn out a buffer or component or two
It's not a massive voltage, but the current can be quite high depending on the device that originates the Midi signal. Some Midi devices (like Midi Solutions Quadra) are powered purely by the 5 pin Midi cabling, which is part of the original Midi definitions and format. Where TRS Midi is concerned, that's not really part of the Midi format and it's well defined. A lot of TRS midi implementations cut the power feed from the 5 Pin jack so they don't have to deal with that option. The FaderFox PC-4 cuts the power, which makes merging it's midi out complicated because of the added need for a Midi merge box that needs a further powered feed. I prefer 5 Pin Midi leads and connectors because from my experience TRS as a format is riddled with implementation inconsistencies. Sure it takes up less box space but at the cost of compatibility issues....it's not just a data port.
 
#13,271
GMC said:
Short term, plugging in a powered TRS to Midi A into a B connector isn't going to fry anything instantly. But over 6 months it might well burn out a buffer or component or two
It's not a massive voltage, but the current can be quite high depending on the device that originates the Midi signal. Some Midi devices (like Midi Solutions Quadra) are powered purely by the 5 pin Midi cabling, which is part of the original Midi definitions and format. Where TRS Midi is concerned, that's not really part of the Midi format and it's well defined. A lot of TRS midi implementations cut the power feed from the 5 Pin jack so they don't have to deal with that option. The FaderFox PC-4 cuts the power, which makes merging it's midi out complicated because of the added need for a Midi merge box that needs a further powered feed. I prefer 5 Pin Midi leads and connectors because from my experience TRS as a format is riddled with implementation inconsistencies. Sure it takes up less box space but at the cost of compatibility issues....it's not just a data port.
Click to expand...
I’m a fan of TRS MIDI, I hate the clutter of DIN cables. Even on my pedalboard I’ve pretty much completely switched to CME WIDI just to avoid those cables.

But I’d really prefer whatever cable replaces all of this. Something that sends both analog and digital data, and maybe even power. The all in one solution that allows pedals to easily communicate with each other and send digital audio without multiple A/D/A conversions. I wouldn’t be surprised if Source Audio is the first to release something like that.
 
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#13,273
yberwaffe said:
Yep, S/PDIF is the answer.
Oki, you can't transport analog signals with it, but one channel could be used for MIDI and other control signals.
But I doubt I'll live long enough to see that happen in the pedal world.

Unless I'm the one who starts it all, Japanese liquor giver me funny ideas.
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Our next series of pedals will have TRS jacks with S/PDIF on the ring. @Derek Williams is right. We will probably be first!
 
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#13,275
rsmith601 said:
Our next series of pedals will have TRS jacks with S/PDIF on the ring. @Derek Williams is right. We will probably be first!
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I'm guessing in time that means a whole new ecology too? Soleman / hub / pedals? I'm also assuming the new midi device that you are developing is a step in that direction. I can see a lot of Type A TRS to 5 pin Din adaptors in my mystic future! Loving the idea of a S/PDIF digital through, bypassing numerous AD-DA converters. Very innovative and unique! It also reduces the reliance on patching cables. It would cut my analogue Signal degradation way down.
 
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#13,276
GMC said:
I'm guessing in time that means a whole new ecology too? Soleman / hub / pedals? I'm also assuming the new midi device that you are developing is a step in that direction. I can see a lot of Type A TRS to 5 pin Din adaptors in my mystic future! Loving the idea of a S/PDIF digital through, bypassing numerous AD-DA converters. Very innovative and unique! It also reduces the reliance on patching cables. It would cut my analogue Signal degradation way down.
Click to expand...
I think we will see how the uptake is on the S/PDIF. Doing something other than S/PDIF is, well, dumb. It's a robust standard and the hardware exists on many DSP chips. Putting it on the ring of the 1/4 jacks also seems simple for adding backwards compatibility to analog and no new jacks/ports. Our hope is that all of you will eventually pressure others to follow what we have done, assuming it works as we hope.
 
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#13,279
rsmith601 said:
I think we will see how the uptake is on the S/PDIF. Doing something other than S/PDIF is, well, dumb. It's a robust standard and the hardware exists on many DSP chips. Putting it on the ring of the 1/4 jacks also seems simple for adding backwards compatibility to analog and no new jacks/ports. Our hope is that all of you will eventually pressure others to follow what we have done, assuming it works as we hope.
Click to expand...
Whoa, another next-level move!
 
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#13,280
I’m suddenly having trouble with my C4 and the Desktop. C4 is firmware 1.21 and Desktop is 0.8.57.

I was able to successfully update the C4 firmware with the desktop. C4 shows as “connected” In the connection window. However, when I go to create a device back up I get an error message reading “please select a device in the connections window…” Also, when I click on the tool icon in the connections window to edit presets my presets flash up in the preset window for a second or two and then disappear. My Desktop works perfectly with my Spectrum.

Any ideas for a fix? Thanks!
 
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