Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Quatschmacher]

Do you get multiple hubs when you have more than 5 SA pedals?

Yes, if you want them to be part of a scene.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Yes, if you want them to be part of a scene.

Would one of the NeuroHub units be a master or how do two units operate if splitting the pedals between them?

 

[Nebraska]

Not sure on that, but I would expect that if using the two button pedals with 5 din connection there may not be a need for another NeuroHub if using the Soleman.

Snap, I didn't realize. The Nemesis hasn't physically arrived yet, I just assumed...

 

[Quatschmacher]

Would one of the NeuroHub units be a master or how do two units operate if splitting the pedals between them?

Just set both to the same channel, send the PC message, press save on both units.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Just set both to the same channel, send the PC message, press save on both units.

Interesting; I would have assumed that the control issue would be eliminated, without needing another NeuroHub, if expanding to more than five (5) single switch units, if using the Soleman. Seems like a foreseeable situation when the impasse is more limited availability of TRRS connections and not midi port access?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Interesting; I would have assumed that the control issue would be eliminated, without needing another NeuroHub, if expanding to more than five (5) single switch units, if using the Soleman. Seems like a foreseeable situation when the impasse is more limited availability of TRRS connections and not midi port access?

I’m talking specifically about saving the 6th pedal to a “scene”. The Hub is 100% necessary for that. Of course, pedals with their own 5-pin DIN port cab be controlled by something like Soleman and have their internal presets selected, but without being connected to the Hub, they won’t be an integral part of the scene.

There are of course workarounds. You could for instance use the same PC number that you use to recall a non-hub pedal’s onboard preset and send it also to the hub’s channel. You could even put the non-hub pedal on the same MIDI channel as the Hub. These are less flexible approaches though as you are kind of tied to whatever PC number the non-hub pedal is using to form the basis of your “scene”. If you wanted to tweak the non-hub pedal’s settings as part of your scene, you’d have to overwrite your internal preset.

The beauty of the hub is that you can call up the connected pedals’ internal presets if you want, make adjustments to them all so they work well together, then save those settings on the Hub. The Hub stores the amended settings, the pedals’ original internal presets remain untouched.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I’m talking specifically about saving the 6th pedal to a “scene”. The Hub is 100% necessary for that. Of course, pedals with their own 5-pin DIN port cab be controlled by something like Soleman and have their internal presets selected, but without being connected to the Hub, they won’t be an integral part of the scene.

There are of course workarounds. You could for instance use the same PC number that you use to recall a non-hub pedal’s onboard preset and send it also to the hub’s channel. You could even put the non-hub pedal on the same MIDI channel as the Hub. These are less flexible approaches though as you are kind of tied to whatever PC number the non-hub pedal is using to form the basis of your “scene”. If you wanted to tweak the non-hub pedal’s settings as part of your scene, you’d have to overwrite your internal preset.

The beauty of the hub is that you can call up the connected pedals’ internal presets if you want, make adjustments to them all so they work well together, then save those settings on the Hub. The Hub stores the amended settings, the pedals’ original internal presets remain untouched.

I, being no midi wizard, had assumed the port availability with the Soleman and NeuroHub would potentially expand the NeuroHub capabilities for scene creation beyond the TRRS connections available. I just expected the design to have looked for those control issues to be eliminated to make expansion to the two button effects possible without the need for duplicate scene creation/storage devices.

In fact, I was under the mistaken impression that the NeuroHub was actually an interface to create the scene and recall the scene from another storage location like the Soleman.

 

[Gibs210]

I, being no midi wizard, had assumed the port availability with the Soleman and NeuroHub would potentially expand the NeuroHub capabilities for scene creation beyond the TRRS connections available. I just expected the design to have looked for those control issues to be eliminated to make expansion to the two button effects possible without the need for duplicate scene creation/storage devices.

In fact, I was under the mistaken impression that the NeuroHub was actually an interface to create the scene and recall the scene from another storage location like the Soleman.

The soleman does not store any preset/scene info, it just sends midi commands. The case for the hub is that it has its own scenes (multi pedal presets), so rather than programming the soleman to send custom macros to recall presets on 5 different pedals, you just send one PC message to the hub to do the same thing. Less programming, less work. Also, the use of 1/8” TRRS cables helps reduce the overall footprint on your board, since you really only need a single 5 pin midi cable from the soleman to hub, and then 5 small TRRS cables, vs 5 big bulky 5 pin midi cables.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

The soleman does not store any preset/scene info, it just sends midi commands. The case for the hub is that it has its own scenes (multi pedal presets), so rather than programming the soleman to send custom macros to recall presets on 5 different pedals, you just send one PC message to the hub to do the same thing. Less programming, less work. Also, the use of 1/8” TRRS cables helps reduce the overall footprint on your board, since you really only need a single 5 pin midi cable from the soleman to hub, and then 5 small TRRS cables, vs 5 big bulky 5 pin midi cables.

Can you speak to the "dual" NeuroHub required to expand past the available TRRS limitations?

 

[GMC]

Is there anything special about the Neuro Hub or would any midi box be compatible? IE, Morningstar Midi Box has more outputs for pretty much the same price.
I'm not sure how closed the Source ecosystem really is and I'm just starting to look at midi control.

Some Source Audio pedals have a built in Midi controller. The Ventris, Collider, Nemesis and EQ2 all have 5 pin Midi ports. However, every Source Audio One Series can be controlled via a Neuro Hub.

Isn't that what the Soleman is for?

Yes and it's a fine, versatile and much over looked Midi controller. But you will still need a Neuro Hub for the One Series pedals that do not natively have a Midi port.

Do you get multiple hubs when you have more than 5 SA pedals?

That's an option. I have a single hub and it's fully maxed out with 5 SA pedals. I have 3 SA pedals that don't need a hub and these are controlled directly from my Midi controller.

The Neuro hub has it's own internal 128 patch memory that it can share across all 5 of it's attached devices. These are called scenes. I find these really useful and I create scenes based on my most used patches across my 5 SA pedals. This means that I only need to call up one Midi command to recall a Neuro Hub Scene. This cuts down time programming and recalling (only one midi message and not 5 have to be sent).

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

@GMC

My ignorance of midi knows no bounds. However, with the NeuroHub minimizing 5pin to TRRS, but having IN/OUT 5 pin ports. Can you explain how you could create a "scene" using the following five (5) single switch pedals and one (1) two switch pedal?

Atlas

Aftershock

Ultra Wave Bass

EQ2

Gemini

&

Collider (dual switch/5 pin port)

I had expected that the cables had less to do with NeuroHub function across midi than it is in fact. I had considered the ecosystem connection was not relevant to the style (size) of the midi port connection. (i.e. if the system is connected, it's connected to all pedals and only one (1) NeuroHub (master) was required - ALL OTHER FUNCTIONS ASIDE/Expression/"the hand device"/other than Soleman Controllers)

 

[Gibs210]

@GMC

My ignorance of midi knows no bounds. However, with the NeuroHub minimizing 5pin to TRRS, but having IN/OUT 5 pin ports. Can you explain how you could create a "scene" using the following five (5) single switch pedals and one (1) two switch pedal?

Atlas

Aftershock

Ultra Wave Bass

EQ2

Gemini

&

Collider (dual switch/5 pin port)

I had expected that the cables had less to do with NeuroHub function across midi than it is in fact. I had considered the ecosystem connection was not relevant to the style (size) of the midi port connection. (i.e. if the system is connected, it's connected to all pedals and only one (1) NeuroHub (master) was required - ALL OTHER FUNCTIONS ASIDE/Expression/"the hand device"/other than Soleman Controllers)

Hub scenes only apply to what’s connected to the 5 ports and nothing else. You can sync everything up midi in one way or another. But the hub only handles the 5 TRRS ports directly, and will simply pass on midi commands from upstream down to the next device in-line.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

Hub scenes only apply to what’s connected to the 5 ports and nothing else. You can sync everything up midi in one way or another. But the hub only handles the 5 TRRS ports directly, and will simply pass on midi commands from upstream down to the next device in-line.

So, NeuroHub is limited to five (5) compatible pedals to create "scenes" with TRRS 1/8" cables, but can pass information subject to system requirements to activate auxiliary midi capable pedal by 5 pin, (SA or other) and is best controlled by the Soleman ecosystem controller, but others may work, too.

Got it, thanks.

 

[odarellmc]

So, NeuroHub is limited to five (5) compatible pedals to create "scenes" with TRRS 1/8" cables, but can pass information subject to system requirements to activate auxiliary midi capable pedal by 5 pin, (SA or other) and is best controlled by the Soleman ecosystem controller, but others may work, too.

Got it, thanks.

If you put it that way not quite. While both use a form of midi to communicate. I think of it as two midi devices that work together. Those that are connected to the hub and the other to the soleman. If that helps. Think of the hub as the series one pedals hub and the soleman as the midi hub.

 

[ilovesteak]

I'm looking at picking up an ultrawave to use with my axe fx FM9 for synth like sounds, has anyone done something like this? I'm thinking I'd treat the ultrawave like an oscillator and then use the FM9's envelopes/LFOs/sequencer to control levels and filtering.

I've had a C4 in the past and currently have an Enzo, but something about pitch to midi just leaves me wanting to use my actual hardware synths instead

Edit - I know they aren't actually pitch to midi but pitch tracking oscillators or however they actually work

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

If you put it that way not quite. While both use a form of midi to communicate. I think of it as two midi devices that work together. Those that are connected to the hub and the other to the soleman. If that helps. Think of the hub as the series one pedals hub and the soleman as the midi hub.

Yes; the caveat is auxiliary midi compatible pedals (or devices, I suspect i.e. drum machine/sequencer) are controlled by the controller and may appear within the sound chain "scene", but only to the extent it is independently engaged outside of the NeuroHub.

 

[jaysbass2002]

Do you get multiple hubs when you have more than 5 SA pedals?

Yes you can run multiple HUB's!

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

How are dual (multiple) NeuroHub's synched?

 

[Quatschmacher]

How are dual (multiple) NeuroHub's synched?

Set both to the same channel. Feed MIDI out from one into MIDI in of the other. Press save on both units when creating a scene. Simple.

 

[Adamixoye]

How are dual (multiple) NeuroHub's synched?

They aren't.

They each control the pedals are connected to them. You could have them set to the same channel, so that when you send a PC message on that channel they both receive it and the respective preset for each is recalled. But they are still independent.