Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[odarellmc]

IME many amp DIs can be problematic for a lot of sound techs who do not know how to handle line level signals or have a proper board, for that reason I have a Radial JDI in my kit for the sake of quality and simplicity, plus I don't always use an amp.


Every Source Audio pedal has exceeded my expectations in sound, versatility and utility. I started with the Aftershock in an attempt to pare down my needs for multiple drives for songs and styles ~ so many great options but needs more memory.
Then was uber excited when the C4 Synth was released and continue to adore and explore that pedal. My use includes filters, octavers, pitch shifter and harmoizers, phaser, vibrato tremolo plus the amazing 4 voice synth sounds.
Then there was the Ultrawave Bass Toolbox that has amazing multiband distortion but also a DAW style compressor, 3 band semi parametric, 8 band EQ, noise gate, hpf, lpf and the very cool multiband tremolo plus a few other goodies.
I then decided to add a Spectrum at the end of all these to have the option for octaver and filters after my distortions for creating more interesting sounds as that is my thing these daze.
Adding the Neuro Hub allowed me to save more sounds on the Aftershock as well as create scenes for songs for recall.
View attachment 5139860

So you're saying the DI amp level and the pedal DI levels are different?

 

[bassbrad]

So you're saying the DI amp level and the pedal DI levels are different?

Not all xlr outs are the same, some are low voltage balanced mic level signals some actually employing a transformer, while others rely on electrical circuits and are more powerful with as much as a 1 volt line level output. Consumer mixing boards do not handle those hot signals even when the pad is engaged. In many cases this is why pro sound folk tend to not like amp DI outs and often insist on using their trusted or house DI. I tired of having mixed results so either cooperated with the sound person by using the house DI or started carrying my own passive DI.

Amps with DIs are essentially a marketing solution to make amps more desirable but very often are not usable IRL.

 

[odarellmc]

Not all xlr outs are the same, some are low voltage balanced mic level signals some actually employing a transformer, while others rely on electrical circuits and are more powerful with as much as a 1 volt line level output. Consumer mixing boards do not handle those hot signals even when the pad is engaged. In many cases this is why pro sound folk tend to not like amp DI outs and often insist on using their trusted or house DI. I tired of having mixed results so either cooperated with the sound person by using the house DI or started carrying my own passive DI.

Amps with DIs are essentially a marketing solution to make amps more desirable but very often are not usable IRL.

Thank you I learned something!

 

[yberwaffe]

Love both the C4 and the UW and in some cases use them together. I see some of you guys have installed C4 before UW, whereas I have the UW before the C4. Getting great results as is but is there any reason I should consider switching the order?

I don't have those pedals so I can't say for sure, but the C4 might track better with a clean signal.

 

[_Tay_]

I don't have those pedals so I can't say for sure, but the C4 might track better with a clean signal.

This is true. Purely for tracking.

 

[Billyears IV]

Anyone recommend decent headphones to give max quality over low freqs AND higher ones for synthy/distortions on the bass PLUS a DAW backing with all sorts of freqs??

I've used my 'all round listening' Bose Quiet comfort cancelling headphones for years. They are of a good standard but find dub bass easy to clip headphone speakers and UW distortions easily go fuzzy.

Any suggestions? Don't want to spend too much.

Thanks

 

[Trvbass]

Not all xlr outs are the same, some are low voltage balanced mic level signals some actually employing a transformer, while others rely on electrical circuits and are more powerful with as much as a 1 volt line level output. Consumer mixing boards do not handle those hot signals even when the pad is engaged. In many cases this is why pro sound folk tend to not like amp DI outs and often insist on using their trusted or house DI. I tired of having mixed results so either cooperated with the sound person by using the house DI or started carrying my own passive DI.

Amps with DIs are essentially a marketing solution to make amps more desirable but very often are not usable IRL.

Good info, thanks! Couple of questions:

1. Do you recommend sending the effected signal to FOH and if so how?

2. Do you recommend sendng your uneffected signal to FOH, and how?

3. To send my uneffected signal to FOH, do you think that these "Switched TRS balanced ¼" phone jack" on my stompbox wireless receiver can be sent to FOH, or does this need to be passed into a DI before FOH? Do I need to get from 1/4" TRS to XLR, or can they consume the TRS?

Audio Technica touts this as a "free, mutable DI" in their marketing materials - too good to be true/same situation as the "DI" on the back of some amps?

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Anyone want to point me to a good post to work out a working process to use my c4 better?
So far I am loading premade patches - but need to work out the most efficient way of loading, editing and then saving. so far I have them but need to level match for my input signal - the secondary use of the top right pedal is annoying

 

[Quatschmacher]

Anyone want to point me to a good post to work out a working process to use my c4 better?
So far I am loading premade patches - but need to work out the most efficient way of loading, editing and then saving. so far I have them but need to level match for my input signal - the secondary use of the top right pedal is annoying

Find out what input gain value works for your bass, remember the numerical value then just load patches via either the desktop or mobile app, set the gain to the value you know works and then save to your library.

 

[bassbrad]

Good info, thanks! Couple of questions:

1. Do you recommend sending the effected signal to FOH and if so how?

2. Do you recommend sendng your uneffected signal to FOH, and how?

3. To send my uneffected signal to FOH, do you think that these "Switched TRS balanced ¼" phone jack" on my stompbox wireless receiver can be sent to FOH, or does this need to be passed into a DI before FOH? Do I need to get from 1/4" TRS to XLR, or can they consume the TRS?

Audio Technica touts this as a "free, mutable DI" in their marketing materials - too good to be true/same situation as the "DI" on the back of some amps?


View attachment 5140546

I prefer to keep things as simple as possible so the mono signal from my pedalboard is exactly what I want to be heard, amp, monitor and FOH ready. All my sounds are edited to have unity gain with no drastic changes in volume and I let the sound person know that there will be effects on the bass, with that in mind I also make sure that I don't overwhelm the system with too much low end, octaver or bitter treble.
The wet/dry mix for live on my pedal board is generally 50/50. I test everything at home in headphones and through a powered speaker running through all my presets.
This way the sound tech need do nothing but ensure a proper level for the overall mix, as I know that they will already have their hands full mixing the rest of the band.

In your case it is nice to have the option for a direct dry as well as an effects send but...IME what most sound techs will do is run your dry and barely add any effects if any at all.

 

[Mohawk]

This is true. Purely for tracking.

I'll have to try and compare. If it is better or no difference with the patch combos I'm using now, I'll switch to using the C4 first. The C4 has been very good with tracking in the years that I've been using it. It will be interesting to see if the UW has any issues when sent a crunchy signal from the C4 though.

 

[IvanMike]

Well, I just got some series one pedals and I suppose I should join. And I have some questions.

i’m not a stranger to editing parameters, and I’m not a stranger to using things like desktop, editors for digital representation of what you’re doing.

However, I am essentially MIDI inexperienced.

I’d like to be able to access a bunch of presets and it looks like I would need a neuro hub and a MIDI Controler like a soleman. does that sound right? How many of their series one pedals can I run with a setup like that?

I’d like something with as convenient and easy of an interface as possible.

 

[LowWay]

You can run 5 pedals from each hub. Not sure how many hubs you can use before you max out. I bet it’s more than you’ll ever need.

 

[Adamixoye]

You can run 5 pedals from each hub. Not sure how many hubs you can use before you max out. I bet it’s more than you’ll ever need.

As I understand it if you're "chaining" Hubs they're not really connected in any meaningful way. You can just think of them as two independent devices controlling their respective pedals. They could be on the same MIDI channel, or not, depending on how you want to control them.

 

[IvanMike]

OK here are my questions in a much better format

I recently got a number of series one pedals. I’m not a stranger to editing parameters on a physical device, or a graphic representation, such as the desktop editor. I have been using a quad cortex, so I am definitely not a Luddite.

However, I am essentially a complete neophyte on MIDI. Also, I believe that the questions I have are so simple in nature that they are not covered by the FAQ board discussions that I have seen on forums or in the user manuals.

Essentially, what I would like to be able to do is to create and store presets on individual pedals, that I can access via the switches on the units themselves, or by some kind of external switch switch or other device. I don’t know that I would actually need to access more than six at a given gig, but it might be nice depending upon the situation.

#1 So, the first question is, can I replace the existing presets in the first six slots with ones that I create myself or grab from the cloud? ~ I didn’t see a way to rearrange the order of the presets, so I’m wondering if I need to just delete the first six presets, load the presets I want to win those slots, and then, if I want to still retain the factory presets download them from the cloud and put them in slots further down the line. Essentially, that’s what I’d like to be able to do.

Next up. Although I see the advantage of being able to create scenes with the various pedals I have, perhaps connected through your hub to something like the soleman (if I’m getting all that right), very often I’m just going to want to bring one or two pedals to a gig. In those cases, it would be nice to have a switcher that could allow me to access more than the six presets available on the device via the switches.

#2 What kind of MIDI device/switcher will need to use that can handle changing from pedal to pedal to scroll through the presets of each unit? I’m really looking for something that once I set it up can be plug and play and that I don’t need to reprogram it every time I decide to physically switch what pedal configuration I’m bringing out.

Next. Very often what I’d like to be able to do is use a switcher or some thing they can let me choose which device it’s looking at, find the preset on that device that I want, and then just select that one on that particular device. Then maybe move onto the next one. It would be great if I could set up scenes on that same device, but often I might just want to grab some thing like the C4 out of the whole bunch and change the preset on the fly.

#3 so the question is what kind of device do I need to use in order to do what I described above? Is the soleman able to do that?

#4 It looks like the C4 and the spectrum and the ultra wave bass all have 128 internal preset slots. However it looks like the lunar phaser doesn’t and I’m not sure about the aftershock. For those petals that don’t have the extra internal slats do I need to use a hub for those? Does something like the soleman have the capability to store those?

#5 Last, but not least. I don’t on a computer at the moment, but I do use iOS devices. My telephone only has the lightning jack, but my iPad has a headphone jack as well. With the current state of the software am I able to use that headphone jack to access the neural editor and make changes on my devices? Likewise, what exactly do I need to use to connect my iPhone to the neural editor and make changes on my devices? Is it the camera adapter now which one?

Thanks a ton

Ivan

 

[bassbrad]

@IvanMike
1] yes and yes and yes
4] correct*, yes and no not w/o the Hub
* there are several generations of the Series 1 pedals, C4, Spectrum, Atlas, Ultrawave have the newer chip that allows more storage. The distortion trio and modulation group pedals are all earlier and need the HUB in order to store more than 6 presets.
5] IIRC you need the "camera" adapter to connect your phone to SA pedals.

FWIW I use an inexpensive ACER laptop (sub $200) in my setup to run Neuro and other apps as well as a Hub and M-Wave Chocolate footswitch.

 

[joshofbass]

@IvanMike
1] yes and yes and yes
4] correct*, yes and no not w/o the Hub
* there are several generations of the Series 1 pedals, C4, Spectrum, Atlas, Ultrawave have the newer chip that allows more storage. The distortion trio and modulation group pedals are all earlier and need the HUB in order to store more than 6 presets.
5] IIRC you need the "camera" adapter to connect your phone to SA pedals.

FWIW I use an inexpensive ACER laptop (sub $200) in my setup to run Neuro and other apps as well as a Hub and M-Wave Chocolate footswitch.

With the chocolate do you use the expression/midi out at all?

 

[aguacateojos]

It took me far too long to realize you weren't talking about the Cioks Ciokolate power supply. I was like... expression and midi out? I know it adjusts voltage but wow.

 

[PotsdamBass8]

I’m pretty sure the answer is no, but just want to confirm. Is there currently (or in future plans) a device that you can connect to the one series pedals on a board that allows you to see and adjust parameters and patches, like the UI on the multi FX pedals? I know a laptop can do this, and I know the mobile devices can send info (but can’t read the pedal), but it would be nice to have something in the setup to change certain parameters on the fly in practice or on the gig.

 

[Quatschmacher]

I’m pretty sure the answer is no, but just want to confirm. Is there currently (or in future plans) a device that you can connect to the one series pedals on a board that allows you to see and adjust parameters and patches, like the UI on the multi FX pedals? I know a laptop can do this, and I know the mobile devices can send info (but can’t read the pedal), but it would be nice to have something in the setup to change certain parameters on the fly in practice or on the gig.

If @rsmith601 and the good folks at Source Audio were able to share the protocol, Mortrix would be able to do this. (It already does it for stuff like Eventide H9 patches, etc.)