Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[PhatBottomBass1]

SASS,

@Gibs210
@rsmith601

I'm piecing together information for C4 operation with a Two Notes ReVolt Bass Preamp and OPUS.

It is determined that using the SA Midi 168A Adapter will function in this application. (Received)

TRRS to C4 from 168A midi OUT

TRS to ReVolt from 168A midi IN

TRS to OPUS from 168A midi THRU

C4 presets will accept PC messages for BYPASS and ENGAGE (If engaged this means the C4 is ON)

(1) I do not know if the C4 (6) stored presets that are actionable with the toggle switch, would each require a UNIQUE (PC) message to ENGAGE?

Or

(2) Can the toggle switch selected C4 presets accept the SAME (PC) message from the ReVolt if ONLY using those (6) stored location presets? (This would be like a revolver cylinder, using the same hammer and rotating the cartridges, for lack of a better example.)

I ask, because I am unaware of the ReVolt Bass Preamp being able to send more than basic PC or CC type messages associated to the (3) channels & the preamp bypass switching functions used to talk to the OPUS.

Your clarity in getting the C4 (with a specific toggle selected stored preset) to ENGAGE (On), when the ReVolt Bass Preamp is BYPASSED, going directly to the OPUS is what I am attempting to do.

Thanks!

Note of interest: this arrangement could potentially work, in or out of the ReVolt Bass Preamp effects loop, for the modulation, distortion, compressor and filter One Series pedals, too.

 

[Gibs210]

SASS,

@Gibs210
@rsmith601

I'm piecing together information for C4 operation with a Two Notes ReVolt Bass Preamp and OPUS.

It is determined that using the SA Midi 168A Adapter will function in this application. (Received)

TRRS to C4 from 168A midi OUT

TRS to ReVolt from 168A midi IN

TRS to OPUS from 168A midi THRU

C4 presets will accept PC messages for BYPASS and ENGAGE (If engaged this means the C4 is ON)

(1) I do not know if the C4 (6) stored presets that are actionable with the toggle switch, would each require a UNIQUE (PC) message to ENGAGE?

Or

(2) Can the toggle switch selected C4 presets accept the SAME (PC) message from the ReVolt if ONLY using those (6) stored location presets? (This would be like a revolver cylinder, using the same hammer and rotating the cartridges, for lack of a better example.)

I ask, because I am unaware of the ReVolt Bass Preamp being able to send more than basic PC or CC type messages associated to the (3) channels & the preamp bypass switching functions used to talk to the OPUS.

Your clarity in getting the C4 (with a specific toggle selected stored preset) to ENGAGE (On), when the ReVolt Bass Preamp is BYPASSED, going directly to the OPUS is what I am attempting to do.

Thanks!

Note of interest: this arrangement could potentially work, in or out of the ReVolt Bass Preamp effects loop, for the modulation, distortion, compressor and filter One Series pedals, too.

There’s a button in the neuro app for midi recall, you would use that to set the on/off state of the pedal that the preset loads in. Otherwise, you need to send a cc message for bypass/activate commands. This cannot be sent as a stacked message, it will ignore the second message. The pedal out of the adapter goes to c4 if the revolt is able to function as a midi controller, then it’s midi out would go to the midi in of the opus or adapter, depending on your midi chain order. I’m also assuming two notes uses type A trs midi, as that’s what the midi adapter is expecting (we went with the boss standard, which is what is recognized as the proper standard in midi protocol). If not, you’ll need some sort of crossover trs cable depending on how the midi ports are wired on the two notes devices.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

There’s a button in the neuro app for midi recall, you would use that to set the on/off state of the pedal that the preset loads in. Otherwise, you need to send a cc message for bypass/activate commands. This cannot be sent as a stacked message, it will ignore the second message. The pedal out of the adapter goes to c4 if the revolt is able to function as a midi controller, then it’s midi out would go to the midi in of the opus or adapter, depending on your midi chain order. I’m also assuming two notes uses type A trs midi, as that’s what the midi adapter is expecting (we went with the boss standard, which is what is recognized as the proper standard in midi protocol). If not, you’ll need some sort of crossover trs cable depending on how the midi ports are wired on the two notes devices.

Well...SA tech (Nate) support stated PC message to bypass/engage.

I will check on the midi A...

 

[Gibs210]

Well...SA tech (Nate) support stated PC message to bypass/engage.

I will check on the midi A...

PC is intended for preset recall, 0 to 127 (or 1 to 128 are all configured for presets 1 to 128 on the c4 respectively) if your wanting it to load in active or bypassed then you need to configure that in the preset using neuro.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

PC is intended for preset recall, 0 to 127 (or 1 to 128 are all configured for presets 1 to 128 on the c4 respectively) if your wanting it to load in active or bypassed then you need to configure that in the preset using neuro.

To simply the Midiot question:

Can I set the C4 to any of the (6) toggle presets, have a PC message turn the selected preset ON (without using the mechanical footswitch) and have the C4 produce sound with only the 168A?

From Two Notes:

5 - MIDI IN/OUT
The MIDI In/Out sockets are ⅛” TRS jack panel-mount connectors. One TRS 1/4” jack to MIDI type A adapter cable is provided with ReVolt.


BASS

PC number channel #1

PC number + 1 channel #2

PC number + 2 channel #3

PC number + 3 preamp bypass

I see no indication that ReVolt can send CC messages beyond onboard effects loop control.

MIDI OFF, only THRU active 0

MIDI Messages are received and sent on this channel number 1 - 16

OMNI : MIDI messages are received on all channels and sent on channel 1 17

Please note, by default ReVolt’s MIDI Channel configuration is set to 17 (OMNI)

***I reviewed the NEURO APP and saw the Bypass/Engage selector menu tag.

 

[Gibs210]

To simply the question:

Can I set the C4 to any of the (6) toggle presets, have a PC message turn the selected preset ON and have the C4 produce sound with only the 168A?

From Two Notes:

5 - MIDI IN/OUT
The MIDI In/Out sockets are ⅛” TRS jack panel-mount connectors. One TRS 1/4” jack to MIDI type A adapter cable is provided with ReVolt.


BASS

PC number channel #1

PC number + 1 channel #2

PC number + 2 channel #3

PC number + 3 preamp bypass

I see no indication that ReVolt can send CC messages beyond onboard effects loop control.

MIDI OFF, only THRU active 0

MIDI Messages are received and sent on this channel number 1 - 16

OMNI : MIDI messages are received on all channels and sent on channel 1 17

Please note, by default ReVolt’s MIDI Channel configuration is set to 17 (OMNI)

That sounds like the revolt is set to recieve those messages to turn things on and off, that does not sound like it’s able to act as a midi controller to me. Those are messages the revolt is looking for to react to.

again, c4 can have presets configured to load in the active or bypassed state using the neuro app to program individual presets.

send pc 1 to load preset one, if the preset is saved with midi recall enabled, then it will load active, if it’s disabled, then it will load bypassed. In addition to cc bypass/engage, there is also cc midi recall where the cc number determines if the pedal is active or bypassed, and the cc value represents the preset. For instance, cc103 value 0 will recall preset 1 bypassed, cc104 value 127, will recall preset 128 active.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

That sounds like the revolt is set to recieve those messages to turn things on and off, that does not sound like it’s able to act as a midi controller to me. Those are messages the revolt is looking for to react to.

again, c4 can have presets configured to load in the active or bypassed state using the neuro app to program individual presets.

send pc 1 to load preset one, if the preset is saved with midi recall enabled, then it will load active, if it’s disabled, then it will load bypassed. In addition to cc bypass/engage, there is also cc midi recall where the cc number determines if the pedal is active or bypassed, and the cc value represents the preset. For instance, cc103 value 0 will recall preset 1 bypassed, cc104 value 127, will recall preset 128 active.

@rsmith601
@johnk_10

ReVolt must SEND messages to the OPUS, but can receive and be controlled by an external midi controller, too.

It would seem that ANY C4 preset that is setup to ENGAGE when loaded, with the NEURO APP, and placed in the toggle controlled memory slots, could be set to expect the same message IF/WHEN selected by the toggle switch?

What happens when the PC message is sent (preamp BYPASS), assuming all other ducks are in a row, the C4 should produce the toggle switch selected sound WITHOUT stepping on the mechanical footswitch... wouldn't it?

(Disregard 5 DIN cable)

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

To follow up...there is a conflict between CC messages mentioned above and PC messages mentioned by SA Tech Support from my inquiry.

If PC messages selects/scrolls presets...and presets can be setup to ENGAGE when selected. I believe that the engage function is already set in the NEURO APP for the present then placed in toggle switch memory slots and the PC message just "selects" the only preset available in the toggle switch controlled memory slot and it engages?

 

[Luke the Fluke]

This thread:
20% look at these cool source audio pedals that have changed my entire way of making music
10% let’s talk about the upcoming new cool stuff
5% look at the cool stuff I’ve uploaded on the neuro app
5% I’m having trouble accepting feature X isn’t within the design specs of the source audio pedal I bought despite knowing that before I bought it
60% how does MIDI work?

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

This thread:
20% look at these cool source audio pedals that have changed my entire way of making music
10% let’s talk about the upcoming new cool stuff
5% look at the cool stuff I’ve uploaded on the neuro app
5% I’m having trouble accepting feature X isn’t within the design specs of the source audio pedal I bought despite knowing that before I bought it
60% how does MIDI work?

And does anyone at SA actually know what the full capabilities are?

*I say that as the HUB, scenes and Soleman take everything in an unbelievable direction of complexity.

In the case I'm exploring, is actually very rudimentory by comparison and simplistic in requirements. But functions in the same switching technology space.

 

[sunbeast]

To follow up...there is a conflict between CC messages mentioned above and PC messages mentioned by SA Tech Support from my inquiry.

If PC messages selects/scrolls presets...and presets can be setup to ENGAGE when selected. I believe that the engage function is already set in the NEURO APP for the present then placed in toggle switch memory slots and the PC message just "selects" the only preset available in the toggle switch controlled memory slot and it engages?

You are over-complicating things. Ignore the whole “toggle switch on pedal” part if you are trying to access these presets via MIDI, as the toggle switch presets aren’t exceptional in the case of MIDI. The “toggle switch” presets are just whichever presets you have put in the first 6 positions of the C4’s 128 internal preset memory slots. When you go into any of these 128 preset slots in the Neuro App, there is a per preset option in the app that allows you to select whether recalling that preset via MIDI engages the C4 or bypasses the C4 when using simple PC MIDI messages to recall the preset.

On the other hand, if you have access to CC MIDI messages, there are separate messages that can be sent that are either “recall X preset in engage” or “recall X preset in bypass”. Using PC messages, you only get “recall X preset”, and bypass state defaults to whatever option you have selected for that particular preset in the Neuro App.

The SA MIDI adaptor should give you access to all of this MIDI control provided your device can in fact send PC or CC messages and you also have the send channel in your device matching the C4’s receive channel

 

[Billyears IV]

quickie please....

with new Neuro App (think it has a fresh name?) on its way & currently being beta tested I believe.....

Can anyone give heads up if the cloud/library will have better arranging features? ie alphabetical listing, drag/drop etc?
Im just uploading all my presets onto cloud to access with Neuro Hub scene building. So consideration to how I name & number them, for ease of finding etc

Thanks!

 

[Billyears IV]

This thread:
20% look at these cool source audio pedals that have changed my entire way of making music
10% let’s talk about the upcoming new cool stuff
5% look at the cool stuff I’ve uploaded on the neuro app
5% I’m having trouble accepting feature X isn’t within the design specs of the source audio pedal I bought despite knowing that before I bought it
60% how does MIDI work?

Ha ha, I've often thought that.

Considered starting a separate thread just for 'musical chat' with SA gear (no MIDI/technical problems).....but Im not so slick with building presets from scratch with my C4 & UW

 

[Billyears IV]

another quickie please....

Started using Neuro Hub & therefore changing my presets with exp pedal settings, from Control Input X to Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI) - correct?

I am not seeing any shift in the parameter that the exp pedal is set to control eg mix, filter depth etc when viewing the C4 neuro desktop software (displayed via Hub Preset window)

Do I need to reset / calibrate the exp pedal? I am using the SA exp pedal, not 3rd party

Anything else?

Thanks for any advice

 

[Rick Penrose]

To simply the Midiot question:

Can I set the C4 to any of the (6) toggle presets, have a PC message turn the selected preset ON (without using the mechanical footswitch) and have the C4 produce sound with only the 168A?

From Two Notes:

5 - MIDI IN/OUT
The MIDI In/Out sockets are ⅛” TRS jack panel-mount connectors. One TRS 1/4” jack to MIDI type A adapter cable is provided with ReVolt.


BASS

PC number channel #1

PC number + 1 channel #2

PC number + 2 channel #3

PC number + 3 preamp bypass

I see no indication that ReVolt can send CC messages beyond onboard effects loop control.

MIDI OFF, only THRU active 0

MIDI Messages are received and sent on this channel number 1 - 16

OMNI : MIDI messages are received on all channels and sent on channel 1 17

Please note, by default ReVolt’s MIDI Channel configuration is set to 17 (OMNI)

***I reviewed the NEURO APP and saw the Bypass/Engage selector menu tag.

Ha ha Mididiot! Describes me perfectly!

 

[Quatschmacher]

another quickie please....

Started using Neuro Hub & therefore changing my presets with exp pedal settings, from Control Input X to Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI) - correct?

I am not seeing any shift in the parameter that the exp pedal is set to control eg mix, filter depth etc when viewing the C4 neuro desktop software (displayed via Hub Preset window)

Do I need to reset / calibrate the exp pedal? I am using the SA exp pedal, not 3rd party

Anything else?

Thanks for any advice

Not all presets have expression assigned to them. If you want a particular parameter to be controlled via expression, you need to enable it and set it up in the preset under “external control” and save the preset again.

 

[rsmith601]

And does anyone at SA actually know what the full capabilities are?

.

When we come out with a pedal, we generally have a full grasp of the full capabilities. After a couple of years it is impossible to remember everything each pedal can do. There it too much in there. Generally, between me, @Gibs210 , @NPappas , and many members of this community, we generally can figure things out.

The most important question that needs to be answered in your series of posts is this:

"Where exactly is the MIDI controller in your system and what is it capable of?" To me, this is very unclear, and I don't want to go and read the user guides on the pedals you have listed to see what they can do. I have done this before, and it always seems like the user should be asking the people who make the other pedal!

I am going to assume that there is a MIDI controller in your system. If you want to recall a preset with the pedal on or off, this is very easy. Its MIDI 101 with the C4. It can be done with either a PC or a CC, as others have identified. The toggle switch has nothing to do with MIDI. It is a quick way to recall presets 1-6 without needing a MIDI controller or Neuro.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

When we come out with a pedal, we generally have a full grasp of the full capabilities. After a couple of years it is impossible to remember everything each pedal can do. There it too much in there. Generally, between me, @Gibs210 , @NPappas , and many members of this community, we generally can figure things out.

The most important question that needs to be answered in your series of posts is this:

"Where exactly is the MIDI controller in your system and what is it capable of?" To me, this is very unclear, and I don't want to go and read the user guides on the pedals you have listed to see what they can do. I have done this before, and it always seems like the user should be asking the people who make the other pedal!

I am going to assume that there is a MIDI controller in your system. If you want to recall a preset with the pedal on or off, this is very easy. Its MIDI 101 with the C4. It can be done with either a PC or a CC, as others have identified. The toggle switch has nothing to do with MIDI. It is a quick way to recall presets 1-6 without needing a MIDI controller or Neuro.

Thanks Robert,

Not dissing SA

It can be challenging incorporating 2 advanced systems with (a) little to no midi experience (Midiot) as a Bass player (b) not having 3 feet (c) hoping to be able to avoid an external controller for limited applications of this process.

I have PM to @sunbeast to ask him to review the ReVolt Bass Preamp and OPUS manuals in the midi sections and apply his knowledge of One Series pedals and midi to make a definitive statement as to midi operability with using the SA 168A and SA pedal without any external controller OR the smallest external controller capable of making this happen.

My limited understanding is that the ReVolt Bass Preamp will generate midi PC messages required to talk to the OPUS when changing channels/bypass...hoping to work SA One Series pedals into that mix.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Derek Williams]

Thanks Robert,

Not dissing SA

It can be challenging incorporating 2 advanced systems with (a) little to no midi experience (Midiot) as a Bass player (b) not having 3 feet (c) hoping to be able to avoid an external controller for limited applications of this process.

I have PM to @sunbeast to ask him to review the ReVolt Bass Preamp and OPUS manuals in the midi sections and apply his knowledge of One Series pedals and midi to make a definitive statement as to midi operability with using the SA 168A and SA pedal without any external controller OR the smallest external controller capable of making this happen.

My limited understanding is that the ReVolt Bass Preamp will generate midi PC messages required to talk to the OPUS when changing channels/bypass...hoping to work SA One Series pedals into that mix.

Happy Holidays!

According to the ReVolt manual, it should send PC message 1 to 4 on channel 1 by default. 1 to 3 for each foot switch, and 4 for bypassed. As long as your SA pedal is set to channel 1, this should allow you to select the first 4 presets (and the Opus too, if it’s properly chained).

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

According to the ReVolt manual, it should send PC message 1 to 4 on channel 1 by default. 1 to 3 for each foot switch, and 4 for bypassed. As long as your SA pedal is set to channel 1, this should allow you to select the first 4 presets (and the Opus too, if it’s properly chained).

Thanks Derek...

This would allow for a C4 preset to operate on Channels 1-3 & bypass, talk to OPUS for an IR preset change (if desired).

Q: do you see a way to advance the C4 presets available (like with the mechanical toggle switch) to ONLY be used with the bypass and selected OPUS IR set up for Synth WITHOUT an external midi controller?

Note: Derek's information could be helpful for the ATLAS if different compression profiles would be desired on different channels...for example.