Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Derek Williams]

Thanks Derek...

This would allow for a C4 preset to operate on Channels 1-3 & bypass, talk to OPUS for an IR preset change (if desired).

Q: do you see a way to advance the C4 presets available (like with the mechanical toggle switch) to ONLY be used with the bypass and selected OPUS IR set up for Synth WITHOUT an external midi controller?

Note: Derek's information could be helpful for the ATLAS if different compression profiles would be desired on different channels...for example.

If you setup the C4 to receive MIDI from the ReVolt it will only be able to switch to a single preset for each PC. There is nothing that can be done (without extra equipment) to change which preset is selected on the C4 for each ReVolt preset. The toggle switch will have no effect on this.

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

If you setup the C4 to receive MIDI from the ReVolt it will only be able to switch to a single preset for each PC. There is nothing that can be done (without extra equipment) to change which preset is selected on the C4 for each ReVolt preset. The toggle switch will have no effect on this.

Derek, much appreciated.

Then your definitive statement will work best with such SA One Series pedals like the modulation, distortion, filter or compression where EACH CHANNEL could be tailored with an effect in or out of the ReVolt Bass Preamp effects loop.

In my case; C4 presets AND an OPUS IR specifically for synth will require a small midi controller to (a) put ReVolt into bypass, (b) select the OPUS IR for synth AND (c) (engage) & advance the C4 preset(s).

THE 1-3 CHANNEL CHANGES WILL ONLY TALK TO THE OPUS FOR IR PRESET CHANGES (IF DESIRED), NO C4 IN MY APPLICATION.

...what is the smallest midi controller that can make that happen?

 

[Billyears IV]

Not all presets have expression assigned to them. If you want a particular parameter to be controlled via expression, you need to enable it and set it up in the preset under “external control” and save the preset again.

Thank you for quick response, appreciated.

I dont fully grasp what you mean though?

I have exp pedal assigned to parameters.
I was previously using the external control panel at bottom, with Control Source - Control Input X (HH/dual input) for exp pedal setting. Then selecting option - in this case 'mix'. When physically sweeping the exp pedal, I see the parameter dial at top rotate.

Now I am using the Neuro Hub (first time today), I assign 'Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI)' at Control Source, no?
Save preset. Exp pedal connected via TRS to Hub (connected to laptop via USB)
But no visible rotation of 'mix' on top dial of C4 control panel.

Isnt that all I need to do?

First time using Hub. Is there anything else in set up or calibration? Hardware options:

Thanks.


Also does this Device Midi Map come into play when cc numbers are assigned? for scene recall? How exactly are they assigned?
I am using a Morningstar MC6 pro


I also notice that the control knobs have no visible affect on assigned parameter, in the neuro hub software?? So, Control Knob 1 assigned to say 'filter freq' - nothing moves when turning the knob.
This worked fine before connecting up to Hub & creating scene....

thanks again

 

[Mathusalem]

this thread seems fun I have an Eq2, an aftershock, a C4 and a gemini.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Thank you for quick response, appreciated.

I dont fully grasp what you mean though?

I have exp pedal assigned to parameters.
I was previously using the external control panel at bottom, with Control Source - Control Input X (HH/dual input) for exp pedal setting. Then selecting option - in this case 'mix'. When physically sweeping the exp pedal, I see the parameter dial at top rotate.

Now I am using the Neuro Hub (first time today), I assign 'Remote Expression (Hub/MIDI)' at Control Source, no?
Save preset. Exp pedal connected via TRS to Hub (connected to laptop via USB)
But no visible rotation of 'mix' on top dial of C4 control panel.

View attachment 5256269

Isnt that all I need to do?

First time using Hub. Is there anything else in set up or calibration? Hardware options:

View attachment 5256271


Thanks.


Also does this Device Midi Map come into play when cc numbers are assigned? for scene recall? How exactly are they assigned?
I am using a Morningstar MC6 pro


I also notice that the control knobs have no visible affect on assigned parameter, in the neuro hub software?? So, Control Knob 1 assigned to say 'filter freq' - nothing moves when turning the knob.
This worked fine before connecting up to Hub & creating scene....

thanks again

View attachment 5256274

You could plug your expression pedal into your MC6 Pro and set expression messages there to send CC100 (which is what the SA pedals have mapped by default).

You’ll only see parameters moving in the desktop software if you have that particular pedal hooked up to your computer via a usb cable. From the screenshot above it appears you have the Ultrawave connected that way but not the C4.

 

[Billyears IV]

You could plug your expression pedal into your MC6 Pro and set expression messages there to send CC100 (which is what the SA pedals have mapped by default).

You’ll only see parameters moving in the desktop software if you have that particular pedal hooked up to your computer via a usb cable. From the screenshot above it appears you have the Ultrawave connected that way but not the C4.

Thanks.

I have my UW connected up 'directly' to laptop via USB, as the full editing software isn't visible via the Hub.
But its also connected to Hub via trrs for scene building.

So when using the Hub Neuro desktop software, the assigned parameters and control knobs do NOT rotate at all ??!!! whereas they work fine when individual pedals are connected direct to Exp pedal.
Surely not? Thats not useful at all !

Did you see I also mentioned that the (assigned) parameter dials do NOT rotate when the physical control knobs on the pedals are turned on the pedal? (whilst connected to the Hub) Nor do the default control knob settings eg input, mix

Disappointing & confusing.

 

[Gibs210]

Thanks.

I have my UW connected up 'directly' to laptop via USB, as the full editing software isn't visible via the Hub.
But its also connected to Hub via trrs for scene building.

So when using the Hub Neuro desktop software, the assigned parameters and control knobs do NOT rotate at all ??!!! whereas they work fine when individual pedals are connected direct to Exp pedal.
Surely not? Thats not useful at all !

Did you see I also mentioned that the (assigned) parameter dials do NOT rotate when the physical control knobs on the pedals are turned on the pedal? (whilst connected to the Hub) Nor do the default control knob settings eg input, mix

Disappointing & confusing.

Hub is much older hardware, and handling 5 times the amount of information than a single pedal is, as a result, the hub is not able to support dynamic display of settings like you get from connecting a single pedal to the desktop app via usb. If we allowed for dynamic display of changes made in the pedal on the desktop editor window, there would be such a massive delay that we’d get complaints about how slow it was. So instead, there’s a refresh button you hit to show the current state of the pedal when adjustments are made on the pedal hardware/expression pedal.

 

[Billyears IV]

Hub is much older hardware, and handling 5 times the amount of information than a single pedal is, as a result, the hub is not able to support dynamic display of settings like you get from connecting a single pedal to the desktop app via usb. If we allowed for dynamic display of changes made in the pedal on the desktop editor window, there would be such a massive delay that we’d get complaints about how slow it was. So instead, there’s a refresh button you hit to show the current state of the pedal when adjustments are made on the pedal hardware/expression pedal.

thanks for response.

Where is this refresh button?

 

[Derek Williams]

thanks for response.

Where is this refresh button?

It says “Read from Pedal” or something like that

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I think I have found the smallest midi controller that should be programmable to do (a) put ReVolt into BYPASS (b) select the OPUS IR preset for synth and (c) engage/advance C4 presets. (Hitting any of the three (3) ReVolt channels will take the preamp out of bypass and select the assigned OPUS IR preset for that channel from the synth specific IR.)

... Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! ($99)

 

[Billyears IV]

It says “Read from Pedal” or something like that

thanks.

Had a fiddle and it does 'refresh', although the expression pedal position doesn't seem to correspond accurately.

 

[Billyears IV]

Hub is much older hardware, and handling 5 times the amount of information than a single pedal is, as a result, the hub is not able to support dynamic display of settings like you get from connecting a single pedal to the desktop app via usb. If we allowed for dynamic display of changes made in the pedal on the desktop editor window, there would be such a massive delay that we’d get complaints about how slow it was. So instead, there’s a refresh button you hit to show the current state of the pedal when adjustments are made on the pedal hardware/expression pedal.

I appreciate what you say but I cant help thinking its finding out after purchase and feel somewhat let down.
I've spent considerable time researching before buying a Hub (on recommendation). Then further time learning to operate it and get it 'talking' to Mc6 pro (still waiting for correct cables to arrive having bought trrs).

First downer was finding out the UW parameters do not show on Neuro Hub editor.
Then that lists of presets are not accessible - have to save all to library.
Now, that the desktop editor is not dynamic in Neuro Hub. So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

That is a pain to say the least. Sorry, I am struggling to see much positivity in the Hub from a user pov.

It's too late to return the Hub for refund.

I think, alongside the selling points of the Hub, the user 'restrictions' above should be made crystal clear, so a purchaser can make a fair decision. Its the first I have heard about a refresh button in any online chat or demo vids.

 

[Derek Williams]

I appreciate what you say but I cant help thinking its finding out after purchase and feel somewhat let down.
I've spent considerable time researching before buying a Hub (on recommendation). Then further time learning to operate it and get it 'talking' to Mc6 pro (still waiting for correct cables to arrive having bought trrs).

First downer was finding out the UW parameters do not show on Neuro Hub editor.
Then that lists of presets are not accessible - have to save all to library.
Now, that the desktop editor is not dynamic in Neuro Hub. So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

That is a pain to say the least. Sorry, I am struggling to see much positivity in the Hub from a user pov.

It's too late to return the Hub for refund.

I think, alongside the selling points of the Hub, the user 'restrictions' above should be made crystal clear, so a purchaser can make a fair decision. Its the first I have heard about a refresh button in any online chat or demo vids.

It’s a single button on the Hub to resave a scene after you have adjusted the knobs. You don’t need a laptop, you don’t need to do any of those steps.

 

[Quatschmacher]

So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

For scene adjustments you can just make the pedal adjustments on the pedal and hit the “save” button on the Hub to store the changes. The exception to this is the Ultrawave as,as documented, its parameters exceed the number that can be stored on the Hub, so in this case, the hub just recalls an onboard preset from the UW. You can still adjust the UW via the knobs and resave the preset using a long press of its footswitch (provided pedal is set to “preset mode”).

 

[Quatschmacher]

I appreciate what you say but I cant help thinking its finding out after purchase and feel somewhat let down.
I've spent considerable time researching before buying a Hub (on recommendation). Then further time learning to operate it and get it 'talking' to Mc6 pro (still waiting for correct cables to arrive having bought trrs).

First downer was finding out the UW parameters do not show on Neuro Hub editor.
Then that lists of presets are not accessible - have to save all to library.
Now, that the desktop editor is not dynamic in Neuro Hub. So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

That is a pain to say the least. Sorry, I am struggling to see much positivity in the Hub from a user pov.

It's too late to return the Hub for refund.

I think, alongside the selling points of the Hub, the user 'restrictions' above should be made crystal clear, so a purchaser can make a fair decision. Its the first I have heard about a refresh button in any online chat or demo vids.

If I’m not mistaken, this information is documented in the relevant user manuals for the pedals.

 

[rsmith601]

I appreciate what you say but I cant help thinking its finding out after purchase and feel somewhat let down.
I've spent considerable time researching before buying a Hub (on recommendation). Then further time learning to operate it and get it 'talking' to Mc6 pro (still waiting for correct cables to arrive having bought trrs).

First downer was finding out the UW parameters do not show on Neuro Hub editor.
Then that lists of presets are not accessible - have to save all to library.
Now, that the desktop editor is not dynamic in Neuro Hub. So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

That is a pain to say the least. Sorry, I am struggling to see much positivity in the Hub from a user pov.

It's too late to return the Hub for refund.

I think, alongside the selling points of the Hub, the user 'restrictions' above should be made crystal clear, so a purchaser can make a fair decision. Its the first I have heard about a refresh button in any online chat or demo vids.

As @Derek Williams has said, the one button saving of thousands of parameters across up to 5 pedals is an innovation that no other pedal company has matched. With only knowledge of MIDI PC, you can save yourself many hours of MIDI programming.

When the Hub came out it was very simple to use and there was only the "Hub Manager" software. Then came the One Series. Then came Neuro. Users pushed us to integrate the Hub Manager into Neuro and add support fot the One Series. We did all of this as best that we could recognizing that we still needed to support Soundblox 2 pedals, and the analog functions of the TRRS port. We have invested thousands of hours in supporting past current and future users of the Hub. Although there are limitations that can be annoying, there are things it does that are still amazing. The good news is that you have a community here that will get you over the lumps so that you can get the most out of the Hub.

We did define a Hub 2.0. It became a complicated nightmare. Its not clear it would have made life much better. What the Hub does is very ambitious.

 

[Annette]

First downer was finding out the UW parameters do not show on Neuro Hub editor.
Then that lists of presets are not accessible - have to save all to library.
Now, that the desktop editor is not dynamic in Neuro Hub. So if a scene is created but a single pedal parameters might have to be adjusted (to suit a room acoustics for example), I will have to plug in a USB from pedal to laptop, adjust parameters as necessary, resave preset, resave to library, re import to scene, resave scene etc

I've been using an MC6 with hub and Aftershock, C4, UW, Collider and have been able to create preset banks on the MC6 that recalls pretty complicated setups (with changing # of outputs and muted inputs etc.) between all my SA pedals and for all but the Aftershock (=old One series pedal), I use the hub exclusively to distribute CC numbers to the different pedals at their respective channel. It's been very straight forward. As Quatschmacher has pointed out, you can adjust parameters on the fly without a computer (given that you've ascribed those parameters to the pedal knobs, but usually input gain, output level and those essentials are hard programmed for a good reason) and then simply save them directly to the pedal via long-press. No hub fiddling or computer noodling required for that. But, you do need the hub to relay the midi commands to the various pedals.

 

[Billyears IV]

Thank you all.

I'll sleep on it & reflect. I was trying to get up & running quickly this afternoon and spent too long faffing & getting agitated that the parameter adjustments were not working (as Hub doesn't reflect the dynamic changes).

I guess I had a slightly glamorous impression of the Hub & MIDI control, in the sense that it would greatly assist fine tuning of scenes, with little tweaks here and there. That I would steam ahead with new library of scenes.

New(ish) band has huge scope for creative sounds and I'm impatient to have a good library of options at 'fingertips' to showcase. I also work a lot in Ableton, which is a hugely sophisticated software, as we know. I'm not comparing Neuro to that but do feel frustrated when certain 'organisational' aspects of sound building are somewhat clunky (and the operator doesn't get it quick enough!).

 

[Billyears IV]

Could someone please advise what I need to be aware of here with hardware options or where I can source (see what I did there?) any info?
I dont know what it all means or it's relevance

thanks

 

[Billyears IV]

For scene adjustments you can just make the pedal adjustments on the pedal and hit the “save” button on the Hub to store the changes. The exception to this is the Ultrawave as,as documented, its parameters exceed the number that can be stored on the Hub, so in this case, the hub just recalls an onboard preset from the UW. You can still adjust the UW via the knobs and resave the preset using a long press of its footswitch (provided pedal is set to “preset mode”).

Yes, I am aware of the physical button, but was thinking of placing the Hub on underside of pedalboard (as others do) due to real estate limitations