SPECTOR® Club - Part 22

[Clearwave]

I've been a full time recording engineer for the last 12 years. I think I know more about human psychology than all of you guys put together.

Just kidding.

Sometimes I do feel like a shrink.

 

[iceboxbass]

At the end of the day, the music biz, is a biz. If he's getting paid to play and putting food on the table then good for him. If you can't play the best basses made doing that, might as well go for the best copy out there. Great player , but that wick sounds like azz compared to his Spector clips. Can't fault a guy for trying to make a living though in my book.

Nope! Can't fault him at all for making a living with the talents that he has! That WW still sounds like azz!

 

[JPSBassist]

Completely agree Guy. I've said this in previous threads.

Yeah. Trust me I get tired of having to retell the same story... LOL.

I think Andy will promote any company that will pay him and gladly say they're better than what he previously played because he's being payed to do so.

True. I think that a person under these circumstances earns credibility by being honest and objective. And any company that has a problem with such has more problems that any endorsed artist can help fix.

In the end if comes down to personal preference. And everyone has bias. I've had three beautiful USA Bolt-Ons here for NAMM this weekend and honestly I haven't played them. I reach for my NS-2 or NS-4 every time. I prefer the neck-thru models. Nothing against the bolt ons. But I can tell you I'll never own one. I love the neck-thru models. And I'll never own an X body or a Rex or a Coda. They don't appeal to me. The Neck-Thru NS-Body Bass is where it is at for me. No two ways about it.

Also did Andy have any US Spectors? I've only seen him demo-ing Euro's.

No. He's never owned one but he's spent plenty of time with USA models.

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Link Removed

 

[JPSBassist]

Hate to say it, but when WW changed the headstock in the mid 80s, they weren't legally bound to the agreement anymore. Throw Kramer into the mix, and sounds a mess.

Good point. But the Supreme Court ruling on copyright - design infringement was late 1990's (brought on by Fender against basically everyone who made an electric bass) and the Court's determination that only the headstock shape/design was protected doesn't make previous legally binding agreements null and void until that point. So there's still almost 13-14 years that the WW/Spector agreement should have been enforced.

And yes... the guys at Kramer... as great as they were to party with weren't much for the business side of things... thus the spectacular implosion and destruction of their company. Which for a time was the largest guitar maker in the world, besting both Fender and Gibson.

It's the old replicant thing... the light that burns twice as bright lasts half as along. LOL.

 

[JPSBassist]

I've been a full time recording engineer for the last 12 years. I think I know more about human psychology than all of you guys put together.

Just kidding.

Sometimes I do feel like a shrink.

And an underpaid baby sitter... don't forget that one. LOL. I hope you've kept a journal. You could probably right one heck of a book about it.

 

[Trailight]

There's a lot of other things that this sort of choice will eventually bring about. And he'll have to deal with those. Such as potential damage to his credibility...

I will agree with a lot of what you said, but one thing that I'll have to say about this comment in particular based on my experience in working in the music industry for 10 years as an insider / outsider:
Unfortunately, to some degree "credibility" is not something that often gets you to places in the business. From what I've seen and experienced in the industry, if your knife is sharper than the other persons and you can penetrate someones back deeper while stabbing it, you'll move forward.
I am in no way implying that Andy is like that, I don't know the chap and I am sure he's an outstanding lad, but the music industry sucks, it's a business and a lot of people simply "do what they need to do" in order to survive.

I've been close friends with some musicians who have been in the business for 20 plus years and between what they say publicly and what they actually feel or what is the true motive behind some of their actions, is often a paradox. To a degree.

Just saying...but that may all be just an interpretation my bad experience....

 

[Clearwave]

I prefer the neck-thru models. Nothing against the bolt ons. But I can tell you I'll never own one. I love the neck-thru models. And I'll never own an X body or a Rex or a Coda. They don't appeal to me. The Neck-Thru NS-Body Bass is where it is at for me. No two ways about it.

I'm the exact same way!

I kind of like my P bass......actually, I like owning a p bass, not necessary playing one. I'd like to own an old volkswagen Beetle but I don't think would want to drive it everyday.

Good point. But the Supreme Court ruling on copyright - design infringement was late 1990's (brought on by Fender against basically everyone who made an electric bass) and the Court's determination that only the headstock shape/design was protected doesn't make previous legally binding agreements null and void until that point. So there's still almost 13-14 years that the WW/Spector agreement should have been enforced.

Depends on how good his lawyer is. I guess Warwick won in that regard. Mr. Spector still builds the best basses in the business and I'm sure he sleeps good at night. I have the upmost respect for him.

 

[grendle]

LOL. Rob's a great guy but he's jumped around endorsements a few times. I'm not sure I'd even recognize his signature bass.

And my knee is shot. I need surgery but I don't want to be in a cast at NAMM. So I've been doing physical therapy 4 times a week and I'm wearing a leg brace. So at NAMM I want people to call me Quasimoto.

I'll get it fixed after the dust from NAMM settles.

And right now there's not enough time in the day. For the first time in the history of SPECTOR there WILL NOT be a printed catalog of all the available models for 2012.

Trying to fully utilize my skills, we're doing an interactive DVD. So I'm slammed with shooting footage, editing, getting the script finalized and recorded (I have an actress friend who is going to be the "voice" of SPECTOR) and everything to the DVD publisher so they'll be ready at the show.

That and major site changes, the finishing of the SPECTOR Corporate site, the SPECTOR Electric Guitars site and the launch of the new SPECTORCentral... which will be the Official SPECTOR Fan website.

And I'm filming a Tone Comparison series with SPECTOR artists to demonstrate the tonal capabilities of different SPECTOR models.

My plate is stupid-overflowing-full.

But it's a good thing.

What did they say you did to your knee?

 

[PhatBasstard]

This is a good suggestion. But also I'm wondering if you are needing backbow you can always turn the truss rod 180 degrees, reinsert it and go from there.

So if you've got the truss at maximum... this is for relief. But to lower string height you need backbow. I actually have 1/2 to 3/4 turn in the opposite direction on my NS-2/NS-4 to get the strings as low as they are.

Try releasing the tension on the truss all the way. Meaning absolutely NO tension on it.

ALWAYS MAKE SURE TO LOOSEN YOUR STRINGS BEFORE ADJUSTING YOUR TRUSS.

Once your at zero tension on the truss rod, before you tighten/tune the strings, look at the neck, look down the neck from right above the pickups at the top and then bottom edges. Look down the side of the neck at the frets. Do you see any relief or any backbow?

String height should be set using the bridge saddles. All you are doing with the truss rod is adjusting the bow or relief so that at your desired string height you can avoid fret buzzing.

the flatter the neck, the lower you should be able to set the strings.

String height will be higher with more relief.

Try this, with your truss rod at zero tension, if your neck has relief with no tension on the strings, then go ahead and tighten your strings and tune your bass. Then check again.
If you have a completely flat neck at zero tension, with strings under tension you'll have slight relief. So go ahead and adjust your bridge saddles to the height you want.

IF you get buzzing, then loosen your strings and turn the truss rod nut 1/4 turn, then tighten/tune and check again.

You have three variables in string height... your nut (which is a set variable and I don't recommend you filing at it). Your bridge saddles and your truss rod. Set the saddles at a height you like and then slowly adjust the truss to get rid of any buzzing.

To be honest, at 1/16th of an inch my NS-2 and NS-4 both have some slight buzzing if I don't hit the fret right, meaning I miss the note by not pressing down enough, etc... and this is to my naked ear. But when plugged in, there's no buzzing coming through the amp.

Some buzzing is fine. As long as the tuned string isn't dead and engaging a fret other than the one you play, your amp isn't going to pick up on it.

I may record a sample of what I'm talking about for you.

Anyway... try what I suggested.

And if you find you need backbow and not relief, you can completely remove the truss rod nut, carefully pull the truss rod out of your bass's neck, flip it 180 degrees and reinsert it. Now when you add tension you're adding backbow and not relief.

A bass with relief set really high is going to have a silly amount of string height. I think you should adjust your bridge saddles and start over.

Let me know if you have any problems.

This is confusing the issue.
Nobody ever needs backbow (nor can be achieved) for excellent string action from top to bottom of the board.
This process is simply to get the most opposing force possible from a previously maxxed out rod. The strings' own tensions will give you all the relief force you may need as you loosen the rod. Again: You don't need to de-tune when you loosen a truss rod. You only need to de-tune when tightening.

If your frets are finished correctly, your board should be about straight for optimum action. Relief is a graduated way to compromise for uneven or wearing (worn) frets or uneven fingerboard (Anyone not agreeing with this, check what Anthony Jackson and Fodera have to say on it. My basses are proof of it.).

Actually, you have it backwards. Turning a single action rod 180 will give you more front bow ("relief") when tightened.
The 180 flip may work for the basses she has with dual action rods, but I'm thinking that this may be more than she want's to tackle herself.

 

[PhatBasstard]

I've been a full time recording engineer for the last 12 years. I think I know more about human psychology than all of you guys put together.

Just kidding.

Sometimes I do feel like a shrink.

Oh yeah?!?
Try being the Band Leader....
Of a Rock/Top 40 band....
Full of horny, single musicians....
On a Cruise Ship....
Where they have to find ways to..."amuse" themselves the 21 hours a day (only 5 or 6 days per week too) they're not onstage...

This is babysitting.
I did this for 5 years. I aged at least 15. Stopped in '97.
...I'm still recovering.

 

[Clearwave]

I've been a full time recording engineer for the last 12 years. I think I know more about human psychology than all of you guys put together.

Just kidding.

Sometimes I do feel like a shrink.

For musicians/bands, I'm a babysitter.
For the occasional doctor/lawyer/professional/hate their job/ wanna be rock star, Im a shrink.

I make more money as a shrink.

 

[Clearwave]

Oh yeah?!?
Try being the Band Leader....
Of a Rock/Top 40 band....
Full of horny, single musicians....
On a Cruise Ship....
Where they have to find ways to..."amuse" themselves the 21 hours a day (only 5 or 6 days per week too) they're not onstage...

This is babysitting.
I did this for 5 years. I aged at least 15. Stopped in '97.
...I'm still recovering.

Ouch
Sounds like the single musicians have more fun.

 

[iceboxbass]

Guys, I think this group needs to make a New Year's resolution not to waste so much time and words around Warwick "hate". This type of issue happens in the instrument industry all the time. Copy a style, change the headstock, and go on with life. If we start hating every manufacturer that has stolen a design, we'd run out of time in life.

+1, agree

 

[GHOST AT]

Well I'll always say that I consider Andy a friend and although I understand why he took the position with Warwick I feel bad that he's now promoting an instrument that in my opinion doesn't live up to the hype that I know he feels compelled to bring to the projects he works on.

He's an EMG Endorsed Artist... so right there he's had to ask WW to remove their standard MEC pups and install EMGs. I'm not sure about the tone circuit, it may be the standard WW MEC circuit. So you've got EMGs married to the MEC circuit... that right there can perhaps account for the tonal change that you don't find as nice as that coming from a SPECTOR.

And when you look at the woods used in his two WW basses... Not that there's any conclusive proof that AAA maple sounds different than AAAA maple (the rating has to do with the amount of figuring the wood grain has), I was still blown away that his black Streamer (which I've ragged him about it looking very similar to the Black Pearl) cost nearly $4000 more and uses inferior grade woods to that of a standard NS-2.

The wood is AAAA quilt top... not solid. It has an Alder back. The neck is AAA and the fingerboard is AAA. The issue I have with the neck is that the main part is Flame Maple. Pretty, but it's not as stable as Rock Maple in the long haul. It's not as rigid as Rock Maple so the neck will vibrate at a different frequency than a Euro or USA SPECTOR.

In all, and no disrespect to Andy, his $10,000 Warwick is like a Europe Series SPECTOR with a really nice AAAA quilt top. Something you could probably have built by SPECTOR for under $4,000 (this is totally a guess but based on my knowledge of other previous special orders). And the LED neck lights are a $1783 option for WW which can be done by Sims Customs for $850 plus the cost of shipping the bass to England and back.

To me, Warwick Streamers will always be behind the original NS-Bass. It's the difference between the new Jaguar coupe and coupe convertible... a respectable car no doubt... and the Aston Martin that it so closely resembles. No question which came first, which is the better made, which is the more desirable. The only place this analogy doesn't work is with the Aston Martin/Jaguar scenario... the copy (Jaguar) is 1/2 the price of the original. In the SPECTOR/Warwick scenario, the copy (the Warwick) costs more.

It doesn't really make sense to me.

And so everyone is sure of what I am getting at. I'm not talking about any other Warwick model. They don't apply to this issue. My beef is only with the design they "borrowed" from Ned and Stuart... the Streamer.

I guess Hans "Pilfer" pays well! Like you Patrick i don't have anything against the other Warwicks (even though the new ones play like a two by four with strings and the ovangkol neck sounds like mud IMO) I was in a local music store once and i had my Spector The patronizing sales guy said he would trade me my 88 figured maple Ns2 plus cash on my part for a plain maple Streamer I told him was a tone deaf@#%% This store was known for ripping the electronics out of basses and guitars and replacing them with crap! Out of business now thank god!

 

[JPSBassist]

This is confusing the issue.
Nobody ever needs backbow (nor can be achieved) for excellent string action from top to bottom of the board.
This process is simply to get the most opposing force possible from a previously maxxed out rod. The strings' own tensions will give you all the relief force you may need as you loosen the rod. Again: You don't need to de-tune when you loosen a truss rod. You only need to de-tune when tightening.

If your frets are finished correctly, your board should be about straight for optimum action. Relief is a graduated way to compromise for uneven or wearing (worn) frets or uneven fingerboard (Anyone not agreeing with this, check what Anthony Jackson and Fodera have to say on it. My basses are proof of it.).

The 180 flip may work for the basses she has with dual action rods, but I'm thinking that this may be more than she want's to tackle herself.

I think we're getting at the same thing, just using different terminology.

My question to her is, when set at zero tension, what does the neck look like?

That'll give us a great starting point.

Since she said she didn't have $$$ for any additional service such as a fret crowning, truss replacement, I really want to know what's going on with the neck.

When at zero tension and no string tension, what is the shape of the neck? And then what is the shape of the frets... meaning are there any frets that are visibly higher that those around them.

For me I have to eyeball this sort of thing. I take the strings completely off, loosen the truss all the way and look at the neck to see the shape. My experience is that my Euro basses seem to have some slight natural relief in this state whereas my USA models look to be completely flat.

On the backbow thing... if my USA necks are completely flat when at zero tension (string and truss) then the neck will develop some relief when the strings are tuned and brought under tension. Strings do that I think we can both agree. They exert enormous pressure on the neck and pull it forward (creating relief).

When I say I've got backbow on my USA basses, this is to counter the effect of the relief the string create when tuned... bringing the neck of my basses back to being flat again. Thus I'm able to get a 1/16th string height without buzzing.

But of course Stuart does the necks on every USA Spector and honestly the fret work on everyone I've ever owned or played has been the best I've seen. And I've seen some not so great fretwork come out of the Czech shop. My Alex bass has to my surprise some rough fret edges along the neck. It sort of surprised me. Ebony is harder to work with, but the fret work on my Alex looks like a rush job. Which I know it was because they were trying to get it to me for BPL.

So what I want to do in this situation is get a base-line idea of what the neck is doing. And from there unless the frets are shot or there's some serious uneven wear or they weren't crowned correctly (and I've seen this once or twice over the years)... I'd like to know because I think I can help her adjust the neck and get it playable.

Also, the height of the bridge saddles plays a lot into this. That's why I like to deal with one variable at a time. My neck adjustment/string height adjustment procedure is time-consuming, but I learned from Jimmy Eppard and I've yet to run across a Spector bass that I couldn't get the strings set to a satisfactory height.

I like your solution if we find the neck is bowed in a way it shouldn't be. Which can happen with all sorts of different environmental variables.

I like the idea of storing the basses in their cases, with some silicone moisture packs in the case if you find that your home/studio/whatever environment is too damp.

Here is LA I have the opposite. It's too dry. I have to keep my basses fingerboards oiled and I run a humidifier in my office so my books and guitars don't dry out.

 

[PhatBasstard]

I think we're getting at the same thing, just using different terminology.

My question to her is, when set at zero tension, what does the neck look like?

That'll give us a great starting point.

Since she said she didn't have $$$ for any additional service such as a fret crowning, truss replacement, I really want to know what's going on with the neck.

When at zero tension and no string tension, what is the shape of the neck? And then what is the shape of the frets... meaning are there any frets that are visibly higher that those around them.

For me I have to eyeball this sort of thing. I take the strings completely off, loosen the truss all the way and look at the neck to see the shape. My experience is that my Euro basses seem to have some slight natural relief in this state whereas my USA models look to be completely flat.

On the backbow thing... if my USA necks are completely flat when at zero tension (string and truss) then the neck will develop some relief when the strings are tuned and brought under tension. Strings do that I think we can both agree. They exert enormous pressure on the neck and pull it forward (creating relief).

When I say I've got backbow on my USA basses, this is to counter the effect of the relief the string create when tuned... bringing the neck of my basses back to being flat again. Thus I'm able to get a 1/16th string height without buzzing.

But of course Stuart does the necks on every USA Spector and honestly the fret work on everyone I've ever owned or played has been the best I've seen. And I've seen some not so great fretwork come out of the Czech shop. My Alex bass has to my surprise some rough fret edges along the neck. It sort of surprised me. Ebony is harder to work with, but the fret work on my Alex looks like a rush job. Which I know it was because they were trying to get it to me for BPL.

So what I want to do in this situation is get a base-line idea of what the neck is doing. And from there unless the frets are shot or there's some serious uneven wear or they weren't crowned correctly (and I've seen this once or twice over the years)... I'd like to know because I think I can help her adjust the neck and get it playable.

Also, the height of the bridge saddles plays a lot into this. That's why I like to deal with one variable at a time. My neck adjustment/string height adjustment procedure is time-consuming, but I learned from Jimmy Eppard and I've yet to run across a Spector bass that I couldn't get the strings set to a satisfactory height.

I like your solution if we find the neck is bowed in a way it shouldn't be. Which can happen with all sorts of different environmental variables.

I like the idea of storing the basses in their cases, with some silicone moisture packs in the case if you find that your home/studio/whatever environment is too damp.

Here is LA I have the opposite. It's too dry. I have to keep my basses fingerboards oiled and I run a humidifier in my office so my books and guitars don't dry out.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure she's dealing with action that is too high. Logic would dictate that's why the truss rod is maxxed.

The process I explained was just a quick, simple fix to possibly save her an expensive trip to a tech.

We're not on different pages. You're just giving her much more info than she currently needs which could intimidate her into not doing anything but just selling the bass/problem (which she has already expressed as a possibility).

It's all good though.

 

[Nate Plays Bass]

To Evil Undead:
There's a really basic fix similar to this that sometimes works. I had success with it on a Carruthers 5 I used to own that had a maxxed rod.

Take the strings off and completely loosen the rod (not out).
Bass face down, put the bass in between two chairs with it resting on the headstock and the body. The neck will be a bridge between the chairs.
Find a way to apply some weight to the middle of the neck. Not too much, just enough to create a little more backbow than already present. I took two belts, strapped them around the neck about six inches apart and hung about a 20 pound dumbell (each end in a belt suspended below the neck).

Left it like that for several days.
Tighten the rod back up to max (not too tight) with the weight still on the neck if possible (I know..tricky).
Undo the weight and put the strings back on and tune to pitch (if the strings aren't too low to sound. Otherwise carefully guess).
If the procedure worked, even within a day you should still have a backbow where the strings are laying on the neck (or extremely low and buzzy). If so, loosen the truss rod about a 1/4 turn (contrary to popular belief, you do not need to de-tune when loosening a truss rod as the release of force
is going in the same direction as string tension).

Wait at least 12 hours. Your bass probably went flat. Retune and check the action. Repeat this last step as neccessary.

Good Luck.

Woah!! Wait! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all Euros (until now) have only a one-way truss rod. You can't loosen them. It says so on their website.

 

[worshiprocker]

Woah!! Wait! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all Euros (until now) have only a one-way truss rod. You can't loosen them. It says so on their website.

I could be wrong but a one way truss means it can only bend one way. you can loosen the tension but you can't bend the rod the opposite direction

 

[JPSBassist]

I could be wrong but a one way truss means it can only bend one way. you can loosen the tension but you can't bend the rod the opposite direction

Correct. The double action rods will loosen to a center point but from that center zero point tighten in either direction (counter-clockwise for relief, clockwise for backbow). Whereas the single action rods will loosen to a zero point, but only tighten in one direction (to provide relief).

You can remove the single action rods, flip them 180 degrees and then provide tension the opposite direction.

 

[Nate Plays Bass]

I could be wrong but a one way truss means it can only bend one way. you can loosen the tension but you can't bend the rod the opposite direction

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

That's what they say. But now I'm confused.

Edit: Now I get it. So I CAN straighten the neck on my Euro, just not back-bow it?