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Spector Club - Part 17

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I owned a Pre LX Euro4 that had a OBP-1 and it certainly had growl. I just recently sold it and the new owner has contacted me multiple times after, and is "in love" with its tone.
Also, when you say JPS said "not so good" this must have been taken "out of context" I honestly don't think I ever heard JPS say anything negative about any Spector.
You will love it. I am going to PM you some clips of my old Euro 4.


Sorry for the mis quote... JPS DID NOT SAY "Not so good"... I just get the idea that he holds the current LX Euro in higher regard than the older "Solid maple wing" euro. My apologies to JPS and anyone that may be swayed by this inaccuracy. I know JPS is a trueblood Spector guy, and that's why I have been researching his, and others, posts about this obviously fine instrument. I guess I get lost in the details, because I have been overwhelmed by all of the different takes on what makes the "Spector" sound that I've been chasing. Couple this with the fact that the bass that I bought has had the preamp changed, has a "fishman voltage doubler" installed, and I have been stuck in the Fender passive thing for years, and I am lost like last years Easter egg!!
 
I owned a Pre LX Euro4 that had a OBP-1 and it certainly had growl. I just recently sold it and the new owner has contacted me multiple times after, and is "in love" with its tone.
Also, when you say JPS said "not so good" this must have been taken "out of context" I honestly don't think I ever heard JPS say anything negative about any Spector.
You will love it. I am going to PM you some clips of my old Euro 4.

I get what UncleJack is saying.

The OBP-1 is a JFET circuit like the TonePump. The OBP series, the 1,2 and 3 are cleaner than the TonePump, which was specifically colored to give it more the USA 9v growl.

I'm not a big fan of the OBP-1. The OBP-2 is a better circuit to my ears. And the 3-band OBP-3 even better.

And the original non-trim-pot TonePumps are frustrating if they are hot. And I've seen some that are pretty tame and others that seem to have an internal setting to full-blast.

So I'm much more a fan of the modern TonePump.

I hung out with "Dirty" Ray Schuering of The Bret Michaels band this weekend.

Ray has three SPECTORs... a Euro4LX-TW that he uses for all his studio stuff. A Rex4-Pro and a Forte-4X. He has #3.

He's had all the circuits and pups switched in all three basses to the same thing.

He has TonePumps powering EMG HZ pups! And he has his tone knobs full open as he goes into a DI. But he cuts through the mix like a knife and has such BIG tone. He prefers the passive HZ pups.

Rex Brown had the USA 9v Circuits yanked out of his USA Basses and replaced with TonePumps.

Really, it's about what you like to hear. And if you want to get a particular tone you've got to look at the circuit, strings, amp head, speakers, pedals...

It's OK. Uncle Jack is right. I'm not a huge fan of the OBP-1 in a Euro... or an older TP for that matter. I LOVE the Euro basses... own 2. But the bass is a bass... what you do to configure it matters. I am a fan of the EMG TW pups in single coil mode... I prefer the EMG DC pickups for humbuckers... but really prefer the P/J setup to humbuckers. And really like the J/J setup. It really depends on what tone you're looking for. You can change pups, change circuits, change strings... but it's still a SPECTOR. So I'll dig it. But Jack is right... I'm not a big fan of some of the configurations because they go into tonal areas that I never need or play.

My personal opinion on an older Euro with OBP-1 or first generation TonePump is yank that old stuff out and put in a new, output controllable TP or slap in the USA 9v Circuit (the Haz). Then you've got no doubt you can get the growly sound you're going for.

And I spoke with Eddie Jackson at NAMM this past year and he's a fan of the Euro models. He plays his white Euro5LX more than his older NS-2 models these days.

But if you want Mike Starr's sound... that's pure NS-2/USA 9v.
 
I just thought about it...

Ray's USA Forte-4X sounds like a ReBop. It has the same pups and electronics. I'm telling you guys I LOVE the ReBop! It's an awesome bass for the money. And if you need proof that it would work on a big stage... most of Bret's set is either Poison tunes or covers of songs by Lynard Skynard to Sublime. He's got to have big tone that can cut through some heavy guitar and keyboards.
 
Good stuff, looks like JPS has a lot to say. Enjoyed reading it....I cant comment on the old "tone-Pump" since the ones I owned are the newer ones from 2010-present. But I will say that I ordered a US NS2 and played it side by side with my custom Wimbish that has the Tone-pump, both have the same neck 1.5 Wimbish standard. And after hours playing both I put the Us for sale....I will leave it at that you can all make your own assumptions. I also had a Haz-lab pre installed in my Ian HIll. Dont get me wrong it sounds awesome but it doesnt blow away the Tone-pump. Just a little more cleaner and different sound but BOTH sound great.....BUT I am liking the wider Ian Hill neck a little more each day. Might place in order for another HIll and "maybe","maybe" sell the Wimbish. STAY TUNED!!!
 
Sorry for the mis quote... JPS DID NOT SAY "Not so good"... I just get the idea that he holds the current LX Euro in higher regard than the older "Solid maple wing" euro.

FWIW, USAs are built with the solid maple wings still. I haven't tried the LX Euros (yet), but I wonder if a direct comparison between two Euros with same electronics, strings, etc, and the only difference being body wing material, would yield much of a difference tone-wise. I know it's a cost saving method of prodcution, but I wonder if the tone difference is one of those that really stands out, or just a slight, minute difference most of us wouldn't hear.
 
I know it's a cost saving method of prodcution, but I wonder if the tone difference is one of those that really stands out, or just a slight, minute difference most of us wouldn't hear.

Sorry Mark, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you or anything brotha! I really appreciate all your support but I've got to clear something up with what you said above. It's a common misconception that the LX mesh wings came about due to cost. Actually, this is a wrong assumption. It actually costs more to bond the three wood types together, maple, walnut and alder, and to use the solid maple wings.

The maple that's being used for the top of the LX wings is the same as before and could easily be cut into full wings.

The reason for the mix is tone. The USA wood used in the USA models has a richer, deeper tone. The European maple has a tendency to not be as resonate. Partially because it has a different consistency and instead of uniform density, can be really soft and/or dense in the same log. So quality control for this wood can be difficult.

Stuart started experimenting with mixing wood types to improve the tonal qualities of the Euro models back in the late 1990's. He just hadn't been satisfied with their sound. There were too many inconsistencies from batch to batch made.

This is one of the aspects of Stuart's thought process which fascinates me. I've spoken with him numerous times about it and he says, "an instrument has to sound good acoustically if you want to have any hope of it sounding good when amplified"

For Stuart it's all about the tone. The reason the price jumped up with the LX series is because the wood prep time for making the wings, having to slice the wood, create the sandwich, then test it to make sure the bond is good, far exceeds the cost of the maple by itself.

The USA Bolt On bodies are another grand experiment in mixing woods for specific tone. Lightweight mahogany with AAAA Maple tops... then look at my Redwood NS-4... 1/2 Water cured redwood - 1/2 black walnut. Same with the Buckeye Burl.

And Stuart could make solid wing Buckeye basses... have you ever seen the logs that the buckeye is cut from? He just doesn't think the tone is right with solid buckeye wings.

He's obsessed with the tone of his instruments. And I've seen him get wood as an experiment, build the bass, not like it at all, remove the electronics and destroy the body. There's a few experiments laying around the workshop from time-to-time.

He'll never put them out there if they don't sound good.

The new SPECTOR slogan I came up with, "Uncompromising Quality, Unparalleled Versatility, Unbelievable Sound", it was born from conversations with Stuart and PJ and realizing that they both are all about the quality, the playability and the tone. It's that simple. And in reality, none of it is simple. I told Todd Cooke yesterday on the phone that Stuart has forgotten more about guitar design and building that I'll ever learn... LOL... I meant it.

Sorry to jump in about the cost savings dictates design thing. With so many other companies this may be true... and in some cases with SPECTOR... like the TonePump... if they wanted it to sound like the USA circuit, why not use the USA circuit?

Because the USA circuit is hand-made... it costs 4 times as much as the TP to build. Then shipping an electronic device to Europe, there's export taxes.... this would have boost the cost of the Euro models $600 or more each. And the point of the Euro was to get a hand-made (because at the Czech shop a majority of the construction is still done by hand) SPECTOR at a much more affordable price.

I just wanted to jump in because I've never seen these guys cut corners in quality or sound to save a dollar for themselves. To make something more affordable for the customer, sure... but never at the expense of lessening the quality of their basses.

The last thing I'd like to address with the EuroLX models. I know a lot of players that think the solid wings are superior to the mesh. Why? Look at the necks of Fodera basses... with layers of different woods meshed together. And we know that Vinny does amazing basses... that are easily 2 to 3 times more expensive than USA SPECTOR basses...

In many cases the woods used in a mesh are better quality than the solids... when you look at European wood. The necks of the Euro Series come from the NY Workshop. So right there you're getting the same neck (meaning same 3-ply Rock Maple) that the USA Series has.

I'm perfectly OK with the mesh wings because Stuart thinks they sound better. He likes the tone on the latest generation of Euro models best.

And lastly, why I came out of retirement in marketing and advertising to consult with SPECTOR... because these guys care about their customers. Not some BS ploy which really says, we care more about our customer's money. Nope. Not how these guys operate. They try to keep improving and making their models better and better. That's what it's all about. They keep getting better. And we, the musicians who play their guitars... we are the beneficiaries of this dedication.

Off my soapbox.
 
Too much coffee... not enough sleep lately. And I hate that I'm drinking coffee again. LOL.

The whole point of the Europe series is to get them as close to the USA as possible in tone, feel and quality, but keep them at the 1/2 range in cost (list) to the USA models. So people can afford to get a SPECTOR Euro if they can't swing the USA... and still get a killer instrument.

And about that Buckeye Burl... this is what it's made from. :-)

As you can see, solid wings out of this would be no problem. Except they just don't sound as good to Stuart.

Link Removed
 
FWIW, USAs are built with the solid maple wings still. I haven't tried the LX Euros (yet), but I wonder if a direct comparison between two Euros with same electronics, strings, etc, and the only difference being body wing material, would yield much of a difference tone-wise. I know it's a cost saving method of prodcution, but I wonder if the tone difference is one of those that really stands out, or just a slight, minute difference most of us wouldn't hear.
I think you will find (at least in my experience) that the opinion of most guys like me that have been playing Spector for 20+ years and have been through and experienced all the Czech basses, is that:
When they added the inlays and went 35" scale on the 5's in 1999, there seemed to be a marked jump in overall quality over the previous SSD NSCR's (in addition to, not because of these two particular changes). Many of us were wondering at the time "how are they going to sell anymore USA's" because the new Czech's felt and played so good. Of course, they did. :p

When they went to the "Euro's" in 2001, the quality seemed to be just as good...if not better. My Euro4 actually took my (Kramer era) USA NS2's place as my main player.

The "LX's" that took over in 2004 just don't feel as good or substantial as the previous two series. I've played a bunch and own one (a 6 not available in the previous two series) and I have to disagree with JPS that these are the best Czech's yet. I own at least one example of each and played a bunch (everytime I see one :D) and the LX's, while still very nice basses, on average are not as nice as the previous two series. Do the sandwiched body wings play a factor? Maybe, but it's just an overall quality and feel thing. I know one thing, the sandwich look really messes up the asthetic lines of the otherwise beautiful NS body shape. I'm not anti-Hippie Sandwich. I just don't think it works with the NS body.
 
I think you will find (at least in my experience) that the opinion of most guys like me that have been playing Spector for 20+ years and have been through and experienced all the Czech basses, is that:
When they added the inlays and went 35" scale on the 5's in 1999, there seemed to be a marked jump in overall quality over the previous SSD NSCR's (in addition to, not because of these two particular changes). Many of us were wondering at the time "how are they going to sell anymore USA's" because the new Czech's felt and played so good. Of course, they did. :p

When they went to the "Euro's" in 2001, the quality seemed to be just as good...if not better. My Euro4 actually took my (Kramer era) USA NS2's place as my main player.

The "LX's" that took over in 2004 just don't feel as good or substantial as the previous two series. I've played a bunch and own one (a 6 not available in the previous two series) and I have to disagree with JPS that these are the best Czech's yet. I own at least one example of each and played a bunch (everytime I see one :D) and the LX's, while still very nice basses, on average are not as nice as the previous two series. Do the sandwiched body wings play a factor? Maybe, but it's just an overall quality and feel thing. I know one thing, the sandwich look really messes up the asthetic lines of the otherwise beautiful NS body shape. I'm not anti-Hippie Sandwich. I just don't think it works with the NS body.

You know when it comes to the history of the Europe SPECTORs I'll always concede that you're the resident expert... so in this I'll take your word.

I personally can't say because I've only really ever owned or seen anything but the newer LX series models. My assertion that they're the best yet is from Stuart and conversations I've had with him. He and PJ both say that the Czech and Korean factories keep getting better and better. And I believe they honestly feel this way (and it's not just being said for my benefit).

I do agree with you on the lighter finishes that the mesh wings with the dark walnut line makes it look a little strange. But on the dark black stained (matte and gloss) models I've had I have to look for the seam. I can't see it right off the bat like I could with the natural matte finished Euro4LX I used to own (a 1st Gen Euro4LX).

I totally get where you're coming from.
 
thanks for the correction Patrick. I thought the solid maple wings that would measure to Spector's specs were a much higher cost overseas, and so to correct for that, they went with the sandwich idea that we see other companies do. I should have reworded my post to say "In my opinion, it was for cost savingss" instead of "I know...". That asserts it as fact, which it wasn't.

Phat, that's what I was curious about. I wondered if the sandwich technique, with obviously different woods, sounded similar enough to the older, solid maple Euro's so that any tonal difference would be minimally noticed. I won't be able to make a solid determination when my 5 gets here because of too many other variables that are different (scale, newer tonepump, DC's intead of the PJ setup, etc). Of course, with all that being said, even if it is different, as long as it sounds good, I won't care....and I have every confidence it will deliver!
 
Well, I took my rebop back today to have the pre reinstalled. Honestly, I'm a bit concerned. The manager spent several minutes trying to explain to me that active pickups and active pre didn't play well together and that most basses that had active pickups used passive tone controls. I assured him this was not the case, emailed him the Euro wiring diagram and now I'm hoping for the best.
 
Well, I took my rebop back today to have the pre reinstalled. Honestly, I'm a bit concerned. The manager spent several minutes trying to explain to me that active pickups and active pre didn't play well together and that most basses that had active pickups used passive tone controls. I assured him this was not the case, emailed him the Euro wiring diagram and now I'm hoping for the best.

There a tech in NashVegas telling you that, who is still in business?!? Flippin' 'ell! :eyebrow:
 
Hammering out the final details w/PJ on my new NS-2!! :hyper:

It's going to be based on Todd Cook's but with a pau ferro board. Here's a little Photoshop work JP did for me...
 

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I'm perfectly OK with the mesh wings because Stuart thinks they sound better. He likes the tone on the latest generation of Euro models best.

Agree 100%

My friend had one of the earlier Euros and after hearing mine, he sold his the same week. I played a couple of the earlier Euros and I can honestly say I wont take 5 of them for 1 of the Euros I own now. Not even close!!!! The newer Euros " In my opinion" blow the older ones out of the water!
 
Well, I took my rebop back today to have the pre reinstalled. Honestly, I'm a bit concerned. The manager spent several minutes trying to explain to me that active pickups and active pre didn't play well together and that most basses that had active pickups used passive tone controls. I assured him this was not the case, emailed him the Euro wiring diagram and now I'm hoping for the best.

Guy.n: "Who's the customer?" :eyebrow:
Tech: "You are."

Guy.n: "Who's paying the bill?" :eyebrow:
Tech: "You are."

Guy.n: "How are you going to do it?" :eyebrow:
Tech: "Your way."
 
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