Francois, I'm not an extension player so I don't pay that much attention to the matter, but I clearly remember hearing that Flexocor Stark E/Cs were discontinued several years ago.
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Double Bass Spirocore Stark- initial thoughts and encouragements
- Thread starter MrSidecar
- Start date
Strange, since I saw them listed on Pirastro's website yesterday. (Saw the stark Passiones at the same time)
I played the Sprio Starks for three hours today. I am still amazed at how loud, full, virbratory, and thunderous, and above all of that, how balanced the set is. The Spiro Stark set is very balanced on my bass in terms of volume and fundamental. Each string is equal to the others. I've not hat a set of strings on this bass that were quite so evenly full across the whole set.
I also have to say that, despite all the talk about how hard the Starks are to play, it is also possible to play them softly and still get a full sound. At least until my hands are used to the tension. What I discovered was that the Starks move the top so easily, I can get a full powerful sound coming out of the bass without exerting my right hand. I spent several years getting used to the Spiro Mittels, and while the Starks are certainly harder to play fresh out of the package, they are no harder than Mittels were at first.
The tension works incredible things in terms of the sound. Like a tight drum when pizz. Arco is deep and strong, easily starting. The whole bass responds immediately. I suppose it will be hard to go back to Mittels.
I also have to say that, despite all the talk about how hard the Starks are to play, it is also possible to play them softly and still get a full sound. At least until my hands are used to the tension. What I discovered was that the Starks move the top so easily, I can get a full powerful sound coming out of the bass without exerting my right hand. I spent several years getting used to the Spiro Mittels, and while the Starks are certainly harder to play fresh out of the package, they are no harder than Mittels were at first.
The tension works incredible things in terms of the sound. Like a tight drum when pizz. Arco is deep and strong, easily starting. The whole bass responds immediately. I suppose it will be hard to go back to Mittels.
William, any chance you could A/B the mittles and starks on your bass? Would love to hear and understand this difference you talk of. Or at least example the full set of starks?
OK, I wonder which of the available stark E/C would be a good match for the spiro starks?
Uh-huh ... my thoughts exactly. New Flexocor deluxe might work...
Look! -- I found on Quinn TI Superflexible extended-E that is 86.0lbs tension (click here) where as Spirocore mittle extended-E is 83.0lbs tension (click here). Does this mean that the SF is a little heavier string?
Look! -- I found on Quinn TI Superflexible extended-E that is 86.0lbs tension (click here) where as Spirocore mittle extended-E is 83.0lbs tension (click here). Does this mean that the SF is a little heavier string?
Browsing through my new table, which is available from the same Dropbox link I always post here, the Superflxible 4/4 ext. E on the same scale length has the highest tension from all strings with manufacturer published tension data. But it's tension is not so much higher than the Spiro 4/4 Mittel E and still a lot less less than the Spiro 4/4 Stark A.
I think either don't use an Extension for the Spiro Stark or get back to Spiro Mittel. I don't think the Superflexible 4/4 ext. E would mix well tension- and soundwise. The Spiro 4/4 Mittel might be too less in tension for the Starks.
The three strings referenced before have a completely different character than Spiros, much less tension and won't mix well soundwise when used below Spiros.
I think either don't use an Extension for the Spiro Stark or get back to Spiro Mittel. I don't think the Superflexible 4/4 ext. E would mix well tension- and soundwise. The Spiro 4/4 Mittel might be too less in tension for the Starks.
The three strings referenced before have a completely different character than Spiros, much less tension and won't mix well soundwise when used below Spiros.
I had Spiro Weichs going back years, Belcantos, Evahs, etc. But for the last 4 years I had Spiro Mittels (with Oliv G) and lately I actually got compliments on the smooth deep sound -- from folks in the audience, from musicians on the stage. I remember how the higher tension of the Mittels (compared to Weichs) was a challenge at first, coming off Weichs, took some getting used to. By this year the Mittels were of course completely broken in and easy to play on, my hands having grown into them. The set as a whole was still going strong. No problems. I realized the added tension had made my bass sound better, tighter, like the bass needed that tension. I'd had a Stark E on the bass before, so I took the plunge to full Starks, throwing all caution to the wind and risking 1) I wouldn't be able to play them and/or 2) my bass would not like the huge tension of the Starks. The bass already had one crack in the top, now repaired, but I'd heard the stories about tops sinking, bass bars giving way, all scenarios I wanted to avoid. If I had followed that instinct, I would not have tried the Starks.
My bass loves the huge tension of the Starks. The added tension makes this bass respond like never before. The arco response is immediate. Volume is huge and even across the whole set. Even the Stark G is a great string, pizz and arco. I always preferred to substitute out the Weich G and Mittel G with something a bit smoother and punchier like the Oliv, less banjo twang, but this Stark G will stay on. My hands love the Starks, though still getting used to them.
The Starks may not be for you and your bass, but they worked out for me on mine.
Has anyone had any experience with a Stark E combined with Flex Deluxe or Bel Canto? Actually, I'd love to hear anyone's experience with any set where they swapped out the E for a Stark E.
I'm curious as to if there are improvements (or the opposite) to be had from using a Stark E with your favorite set, or whether the whole Stark thing is more about using a whole set of Starks. Thanks.
I'm curious as to if there are improvements (or the opposite) to be had from using a Stark E with your favorite set, or whether the whole Stark thing is more about using a whole set of Starks. Thanks.
The spiro stark E is my go to E string for just about any set. Currently using Dominant G-D-A on both basses with a stark E. Have done the same with regular spiros and evahs in the past.
Thanks. Sound like a good string for those "money" notes. I'm going to give it a try with my Flex Deluxe.
Talkbass and its members have been so helpful to me as I get back into the double bass, and now another TB'er is going to loan me his Stark E ... so I just became a supporting member.
Thank you Talkbass, and thank you unnamed member and fellow bass traveler!
Thank you Talkbass, and thank you unnamed member and fellow bass traveler!
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I bought a new Spiro Stark E after reading some experiences here. I paired it with the old Spiro Mitts I have been playing on since I got them used about a year ago. I play an unlabeled carved German bass, and it suffered from weak E disorder like many of you have spoken of. That Spiro E really brought a lot more power to that register, and increased my overall volume as well. The bass sounds much more even in all registers. I played unamplified yesterday and never felt like I had to overplay to get a useful volume.
Don't laugh but I used a Supersensitive Supreme Ext E/C with the Starks and it seemed to work fine. The problem Supersensitive doesn't make the Supremes any more
I hope I can do that!
It is a 3/4 Gruenert '93, C bouts about 23.5 cm deep, otherwise not a real large bass. But it does have a deep sound, was originally an orchestral bass. My experience with it is 13 years, played verious strings on it. With some it sounded thin. It never really had much volume until I strung up the Spiro Mittel set about 4 years ago. Other than that, the bass has an extended saddle, a very light pearwood tailpiece, a perfectly fitted sound post, carbon fiber endpin. Before I got the bass in 2003 it had had a crack that required repair.
I am still thrilled with the performance of the Starks! If you like the feel and sound of the Spiro Mittels, I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Starks. I've mixed in a Stark E in the past and loved the power of that E string. Imagine that power spread across the whole set. That's the Starks. Even the G is a great string.
Thanks!I hope I can do that!
Other than that, the bass has an extended saddle, a very light pearwood tailpiece, a perfectly fitted sound post, carbon fiber endpin. Before I got the bass in 2003 it had had a crack that required repair.
I am still thrilled with the performance of the Starks! If you like the feel and sound of the Spiro Mittels, I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Starks. I've mixed in a Stark E in the past and loved the power of that E string. Imagine that power spread across the whole set. That's the Starks. Even the G is a great string.
I did manage to try a well-used Stark E (thanks to one of our fellow TB'ers), and when you talk about the power of that string, I know of what you speak! A very nice string and I had no problems bowing it either. It's easy to see why that string would be a go-to string. Very impressed, and based on that, I can imagine the power of a whole set.
Just bought a set a used starks and put them my 1878 Rivere and Hawks. Coming from weichs, I had to drop the bridge 1 and 3/4 turns to get them playable, but they definitely produce an even, dark, full-bodied sound with articulate attack on this bass. Have to see how the technique adjusts to the added tension. I'm exclusively a pizz player.
