so if that is true why are there so many speaker sizes? whats the point of having 15s, 12s, 10s, 8s, 6s, if the size has no bearing on the sound?
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Squier/Doom Bassquiers 49: Squiers The Beef?
- Thread starter mc_muench
- Start date
so if that is true why are there so many speaker sizes? whats the point of having 15s, 12s, 10s, 8s, 6s, if the size has no bearing on the sound?
My audiophile buddy was trying to help me get a nice stereo system going without breaking the bank. And he just loves subwoofers. He works in the electronics and computer field. He told me the same thing more or less, size not the concern, a great ten will sound better than a lousy 12 inch sub. Lot more things going on. By the best used 10 you can find and it will work for your system.
Each speaker is a set of designs specs. This is why every speaker sounds different. Every 15" speaker is going to sound a little, or very different. Compare an Ampeg 410HLF to a 410he. They are both 410's from the same company, and they sound very different. That is a result of the specific drivers, and specific cab built around them. Now compare those cabs to the SVT115. The HLF will go a LOT deeper. If the speaker size determined how low a speaker goes, then no 10" based cab could go lower than a 15" based cab. Now look at a cab loaded with K140's. That is a 15" speaker that doesnt have tremendous low end, but it does have a ton of mids.
Driver size does not determine tone.
There are some things that DO correlate to driver size. Efficiency generally does, some times power handling, but that is due to larger motors being put on larger speakers, AND larger speakers having larger displacements than smaller ones.
so again, why not just have all 10s and have the drivers tuned differently? why would companies make these other drivers sizes if you can achieve the same overall sound using the same size speaker, just tuned differently?
Then TB couldnt swing between fads. I hear 15"s are hot right now.
But in all seriousness, I'd think it started as offering difference flexible products for diff purposes (ie. the way a 2x10 is alittle more maneuverable than a 1x15) or maybe the 4x10 came out as a 1x15 killer... the mini amp guys who travel to gigs by NYC subway put alot of thought into the size of their cabs and drivers. I guess we here tend to go big with 15"s and 18"s because we tend to go big with pretty much everything. That being said, I chose 12"s over 15"s purely because of the narrow staircases you often find yourself maneuvering up and down in this city. 15"s are knucklegrinders in doorways for me.
Question for you guys... so we all pretty much commonly agree that speaker size itself doesnt affect the tone, but more the qualities of the speakers themselves... does that mean the commonly-held TB beliefs about speaker sizes are false? That a stack of 15"s won't be as quick-responding and punchy as a stack of 10"s? Or that an 18" sub can somehow get deeper bass frequencies than smaller drivers? I seem to recall Jauqo playing his sub-contra out of a cab full of 8" drivers and getting down to low F# territory happily, so maybe that is true. I'm realizing just now that my "generalizations" about speaker sizes are 99% driven by TB propaganda and 1% by real world experience..... I've rocked 10"s, 12"s, 15"s, and an 18", but never took the time to sit down and A/B them. Hmm food for thought, food for thought...
Another question... my Sunn 2x15 is currently a 4 ohm load. Can I wire it in series rather than parallel to get an 8 ohm load, and then combine it with my 8 ohm 1x18 for a 4-ohm load total? These would then sit next to the fEARful 12/6's, also a 4 ohm load. So there'd be a 2 ohm load plugged into the amp (thats ok) running 2x 12/6's, a 2x15, and a 1x18. Crazy that that trusty old Acoustic amp would do this without breaking a sweat.
I'm guessing here, because I'm not a "tech", but Wouldn't the driver size have something to do with frequency? I know more goes into it than that, but it doesn't matter what the box is tuned to if the driver will never reach that frequency. Right? Also, what explains the slower response (or maybe percieved slow response?) when people say 10s are quicker than 15s.
This has always been something I have thought about, but I don't have enough tech knowledge to explain it or maybe, not enough to ask the question correctly.
I'm tuning into this one. Color me interested.
partly for function, for example fitting 15 inch speakers in the dashboard of your car is not entirely plausible. Also a lot of the science is fairly new, and for most vintage cabs, it is true that a larger speaker will go deeper and a lot of people still follow that "rule". 9 out of 10 people on the street will tell you that a 15 inch speaker will sound deeper than a 10 inch speaker, so the equipment manufacturers pander to this and continue to spread the "myths". Speaker size is easier for the average non-techy musician to understand than T/S parameter, xmax, xlim etc... so it is an easy way for a speaker manufacturer to market and differentiate their products.
just my $0.02.
lol, but its a legitimate question that im not expecting a good answer to. 15s in my experience sound lower/deeper. my novice brain says its because the speaker is larger. the phil jones cab i played through which is like 16 6 inch speakers was poppy and punchy as hell, not a ton of bottom. my 810 had lows but not as much as my 215 (both ampeg, both with the same head).
if truly speaker size matters none at all, then companies should just discontinue all but one size. ONE SIZE TO RULE THEM ALL!
Not everyone has the same size/volume/weight/price point goals. And the market will support it, so why not make money off of those that dont understand their gear. It doesnt help that endorsements and marketing slop are more appealing than facts.
honestly, all coincidence. I ran 4 sealed Yorkville 115s at one point, and my sealed 810 has just as much low end depth. I never undestood the speed thing though, to me all the cabs I have tried, had the same response speed. by I really don't know what I am listening for there.
i just have trouble believing its all for pandering to the consumers. pro audio is a massive industry with a lot more people outside the average joe buying a bass cab. yet they still continue to make all sorts of speaker types. i get the size for convenience and practicality aspect tho as far as your car comment, that i agree with.
it's like any other product. over the years people have become used to associating tone with speaker size and now there are fans of 15s or 12s or 18s etc. if SWR discontinues their 15 inch cabs, because they can make a cab using 10s sound the same, they will lose customers who will go and buy an Eden 15 inch cab because they truly believe they perfer the sound of 15s.
all sales are pandering. if you don't pander then you won't sell.
all sales are pandering. if you don't pander then you won't sell.
I have spent a fair amount of time with greenboy cabs. I dont want this to sound like a sales pitch, its me drawing from my experiance and using it as an example.
The list of fEARful cabs I have used/owned is:
Alpha 12/6/1
15/6
1212/6
1515/66/1
All of them use kappalite 301xLF woofer, but some use an Emi Alphalite mid driver and others use the 18sound mid. All of them have the same tonal profile. The 12/6 sounds like the 15/6. What you gain is power handling and sensitivity. The 15/6 sounds like the 1212/6, and they all sound like the 1515/66. As you scale up you increase in volume, but tonally they are the same. That tone may or may not work for some, but that is ok. Those woofers are different diameter but they are tuned to sound the same. The mid drivers are the same diameter, but they are very different designs, and they are made to sound the same. That is a major part of the design goal.
Now compare my 12/6 to the fEARless 112. It is the same 3012LF woofer, and a slightly different mid and cross over. The cabs sound different, but that is the goal of the design. That same 12" woofer doesnt go as deep in the 112, and goes a lot deeper with the 12/6 (low A is pretty much the limit of the 112, where as the 12/6 will go all the way down to low F#).
The list of fEARful cabs I have used/owned is:
Alpha 12/6/1
15/6
1212/6
1515/66/1
All of them use kappalite 301xLF woofer, but some use an Emi Alphalite mid driver and others use the 18sound mid. All of them have the same tonal profile. The 12/6 sounds like the 15/6. What you gain is power handling and sensitivity. The 15/6 sounds like the 1212/6, and they all sound like the 1515/66. As you scale up you increase in volume, but tonally they are the same. That tone may or may not work for some, but that is ok. Those woofers are different diameter but they are tuned to sound the same. The mid drivers are the same diameter, but they are very different designs, and they are made to sound the same. That is a major part of the design goal.
Now compare my 12/6 to the fEARless 112. It is the same 3012LF woofer, and a slightly different mid and cross over. The cabs sound different, but that is the goal of the design. That same 12" woofer doesnt go as deep in the 112, and goes a lot deeper with the 12/6 (low A is pretty much the limit of the 112, where as the 12/6 will go all the way down to low F#).
