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Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

#25,101
ok theory question. when you are trying to compliment a riff do you approach the riff based on the scale it is in or the chord the riff implies? or does it really matter. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between scales, chords and chord progressions and it makes sense to me when the music is chord based. not quite sure what to do when the music is riff based. I know chords are implied but sometimes the riff doesn't make sense from a chord perspective.
 
#25,103
bassboysam said:
ok theory question. when you are trying to compliment a riff do you approach the riff based on the scale it is in or the chord the riff implies? or does it really matter. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between scales, chords and chord progressions and it makes sense to me when the music is chord based. not quite sure what to do when the music is riff based. I know chords are implied but sometimes the riff doesn't make sense from a chord perspective.
Click to expand...
How many strings are on your instrument?
 
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#25,106
bassboysam said:
ok theory question. when you are trying to compliment a riff do you approach the riff based on the scale it is in or the chord the riff implies? or does it really matter. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between scales, chords and chord progressions and it makes sense to me when the music is chord based. not quite sure what to do when the music is riff based. I know chords are implied but sometimes the riff doesn't make sense from a chord perspective.
Click to expand...
Who said it? "There is no wrong note". Was it Victor Wooten?
 
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#25,107
bassboysam said:
ok theory question. when you are trying to compliment a riff do you approach the riff based on the scale it is in or the chord the riff implies? or does it really matter. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between scales, chords and chord progressions and it makes sense to me when the music is chord based. not quite sure what to do when the music is riff based. I know chords are implied but sometimes the riff doesn't make sense from a chord perspective.
Click to expand...

A scale is just a set of notes. A riff then is always within a scale or mode. Since scales and modes often utilise notes that wouldn't usually be found in a chord (like the Lydian mode using a diminished 5th, 'devil note'), that is why they won't always sounds perfect over a chord. Especially in metal, when notes outside what is usually considered 'nice' are used a lot.

So in short, using the scale is usually the way to go. That's my approach anyway, someone with more theory knowledge might disagree.
 
#25,109
I know this is a popular topic but I'm too lazy to search this thread. I need to give my basses a nice setup before the studio next week. What strings are you guys using for C standard and drop A#? Brand, Style, Gauge? Something that can be purchased at GC and hopefully aren't too bright at first.
 
#25,110
bassboysam said:
ok theory question. when you are trying to compliment a riff do you approach the riff based on the scale it is in or the chord the riff implies? or does it really matter. I've been doing some reading on the relationship between scales, chords and chord progressions and it makes sense to me when the music is chord based. not quite sure what to do when the music is riff based. I know chords are implied but sometimes the riff doesn't make sense from a chord perspective.
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Two frets closer to the body, one string closer to the floor.
 
#25,111
Muddslide said:
But...but to travel from West Virginia to Colorado one must pass through Mordor!
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And Missouri. Hit me up.

father of fires said:
I know this is a popular topic but I'm too lazy to search this thread. I need to give my basses a nice setup before the studio next week. What strings are you guys using for C standard and drop A#? Brand, Style, Gauge? Something that can be purchased at GC and hopefully aren't too bright at first.
Click to expand...

I use .126 for my low C/A#. I think the rest are .086, .065 and .045. I use Circle K, but as far as GC fare goes, DR fat beams. I strongly dislike nickel so most of my strings are reasonably bright at first.
 
#25,114
mbelue said:
How many strings are on your instrument?
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bassboysam said:
4
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I have no idea what I was getting at. Probably something sarcastic and not helpful.

I'll take an honest stab though:Scale > chord. If a riff doesn't work in single notes it's worthless. That's not to say chords are bad. I use them all the time. I think of the rhythm as being the painting as a whole and whatever scale(or scales) as being the canvas I'm constrained to. A color choice from a different palatte will draw the eye like a chord draws interest. Chords are used to accent a passage or note that needs significance. Not just from the bass perspective.
For the most part guitars use chords to fill space. These might as well be single notes. A few chords per riff might add something but most don't. I love the sound of power chords but I place the guilt of "filling space" mainly on them. I few more instruments each playing single notes (well arranged old course)accomplishes the same task better. But in modern rock music bands are smaller each person having more responsibility to "fill out" the sound as a whole. When you think of a strings section in an orchestra you have several instruments whose range overlaps but never eclipses. So a viola can "fill out" what the violin is doing. So on and so forth.
A well placed minor chord adds tension and emphasis but the phrase could be accomplished with a chromatic progression or a blue note and have similar feeling.
Like a $5 synonym might be a more accurate description of something but a lazy one-syllable word gets most people close enough.
If a melody can't be whistled its weak.
At least that's my opinion.
 
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#25,116
mbelue said:
I have no idea what I was getting at. Probably something sarcastic and not helpful.

I'll take an honest stab though:Scale > chord. If a riff doesn't work in single notes it's worthless. That's not to say chords are bad. I use them all the time. I think of the rhythm as being the painting as a whole and whatever scale(or scales) as being the canvas I'm constrained to. A color choice from a different palatte will draw the eye like a chord draws interest. Chords are used to accent a passage or note that needs significance. Not just from the bass perspective.
For the most part guitars use chords to fill space. These might as well be single notes. A few chords per riff might add something but most don't. I love the sound of power chords but I place the guilt of "filling space" mainly on them. I few more instruments each playing single notes (well arranged old course)accomplishes the same task better. But in modern rock music bands are smaller each person having more responsibility to "fill out" the sound as a whole. When you think of a strings section in an orchestra you have several instruments whose range overlaps but never eclipses. So a viola can "fill out" what the violin is doing. So on and so forth.
A well placed minor chord adds tension and emphasis but the phrase could be accomplished with a chromatic progression or a blue note and have similar feeling.
Like a $5 synonym might be a more accurate description of something but a lazy one-syllable word gets most people close enough.
If a melody can't be whistled its weak.
At least that's my opinion.
Click to expand...


ok, so if a riff is using the root, b3 and 5 which implies a minor scale, would you build a bassline focusing on those 3 intervals or would you expand it and use other notes from the minor scale?
 
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#25,117
Playing riffs makes it tough to think about chords. I usually just play the riff and flourish as needed. I have a mini solo in one of our songs and there is no real chord structure so I just play fills with the changes. Outside of that I usually follow the guitars unless I lock in with the drums to add emphasis to a riff.

Think about what Timmy C went through in Audioslave. Here's a renowned bassist famous for his slick riffs and then stick him in a radio rock band and now he has to play chord changes. Two different styles. He said it himself that he struggled. I know I would.
 
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#25,118
father of fires said:
Playing riffs makes it tough to think about chords. I usually just play the riff and flourish as needed. I have a mini solo in one of our songs and there is no real chord structure so I just play fills with the changes. Outside of that I usually follow the guitars unless I lock in with the drums to add emphasis to a riff.

Think about what Timmy C went through in Audioslave. Here's a renowned bassist famous for his slick riffs and then stick him in a radio rock band and now he has to play chord changes. Two different styles. He said it himself that he struggled. I know I would.
Click to expand...


i'm really trying to write more complementary basslines instead of following the guitar riff. I am very concious not to force it though, and that sometimes playing in unison is the "correct" thing to do. There are places though where I want to go on a tangent and that's where the chord vs scale comes in. Should I use the chord tones or scale notes of the riff? It sounds like I should approach the riff more from a scale than a chord which is the opposite of how I've generally approached it. Looks like I have some experimenting to do.
 

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