Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[socialleper]

Agreed, that label doesn't really apply to them at this point (nor a lot of bands somehow situated in the subgenre). There was good discussion on TB recently about labels and subgenres and, at the end of the day, labels can be helpful in seeking out new music, but also harmful and limiting for both the band in listener. For example; one may not like, say, My Dying Bride, yet they see the doom label associated with them, so they assume they wont like Candlemass or St Vitus. (which would be a bummer, because those bands rule)

The stoner\doom\sludge\desert\whatever moniker some seem to cover an awful lot of ground. Some bands are just metal bands that don't like the baggage that goes along with that. It also seems like if a band is trying to sound like something from the 70s, they are called a doom or stoner band because...I don't know...weed and B horror movies about witches were popular in the 70s?
Khemmis' first album was definitely more inline with the typical stoner\doom sort of album (if there really is such a thing.) The second and third are a little more what I would call musically aspirational. Everyone has their preference; mine is for structure, memorability, and either solid riffs or technical skill. The risk for me as a fan is that they go the way of Sword or Opeth and basically stop being a metal band in any real way. However, as a musician and as a fan, I have to accept that every band has their own journey and they have to make themselves happy.

 

[Kriegs]

@socialleper This isn't directed at you at all! I'm just hijacking your post to rant about something that I see disturbingly often

I like how defined it is. It is an aggressive tone that doesn't loose its articulation or become harsh. That's why I'm trying to figure out what it might be. I have the feeling I can't get that sort of tone or a Leo Smee\Cathedral tone without a SVT or Orange.

I don't see why people will spend so much money on this pedal, those strings, this pre-amp, that cab sim, those modifications to your bass' pre-amp, etc. when the person is simply looking for the sound of a fender p-bass through an SVT/ 810 rig. All of which can be had, used, by a smart and well-informed shopper for less than the cost of emulating it!

Hell, if you try hard enough, you can also find a p-bass WITH flats and a tort PG already installed!

... we now return you to your regularly schedule thread...

 

[bassboysam]

I wonder what happened. I thought he\she was cool.

he called someone out in the Rickenbacker thread. he's on the FB page though

 

[socialleper]

@socialleper This isn't directed at you at all! I'm just hijacking your post to rant about something that I see disturbingly often



I don't see why people will spend so much money on this pedal, those strings, this pre-amp, that cab sim, those modifications to your bass' pre-amp, etc. when the person is simply looking for the sound of a fender p-bass through an SVT/ 810 rig. All of which can be had, used, by a smart and well-informed shopper for less than the cost of emulating it!

Hell, if you try hard enough, you can also find a p-bass WITH flats and a tort PG already installed!

... we now return you to your regularly schedule thread...

That is one of the biggest discussions on TB isn't it? The crux of it is simply mass. The heads are not cheap, but are also dreadfully hard to move. Same goes for the cabs. Personally, I think my Barefaced 212 will compete with a 810, so I don't sweat that cabs. They heads are tricky though. SVT-CLs or Orange AD200bs are great sounding heads, but man does literally everything else about them stink.
I hear you, and I'm not getting defensive, I am honestly curious about the drive levels of those amps, and if they make that tone without other pedals to push them.

 

[bassboysam]

Is this bass tone just straight up P-Bass to over driven tube amp, or do you think there is a pedal in there?

the quiet part sounds like a P and tubes but then some sort of boost/dirt kicks in.

 

[socialleper]

he called someone out in the Rickenbacker thread. he's on the FB page though

Was it a pro vs con thing that got over heated? They are strangely divisive basses.

 

[bassboysam]

Was it a pro vs con thing that got over heated? They are strangely divisive basses.

i don't know since the posts got deleted. he just mentioned it on FB.

 

[Kriegs]

I am honestly curious about the drive levels of those amps, and if they make that tone without other pedals to push them.

I play an SVT/ 610 stack and I can tell you that none of my basses, even the one with a passive p-bass pup, sound like THAT without a little something (read: pedal) to help out

 

[bassboysam]

That is one of the biggest discussions on TB isn't it? The crux of it is simply mass. The heads are not cheap, but are also dreadfully hard to move. Same goes for the cabs. Personally, I think my Barefaced 212 will compete with a 810, so I don't sweat that cabs. They heads are tricky though. SVT-CLs or Orange AD200bs are great sounding heads, but man does literally everything else about them stink.
I hear you, and I'm not getting defensive, I am honestly curious about the drive levels of those amps, and if they make that tone without other pedals to push them.

i've honestly never pushed my SVT that hard but i think you could get close. the volume boost in the clip suggests pedal though

 

[Basiroti]

Agreed, that label doesn't really apply to them at this point (nor a lot of bands somehow situated in the subgenre).

I concur 100% and I'd say Khemmis sounds a lot better and more "themselves" as a straight ahead metal band.
I do like their classic metal sound, it suits them. I'm just not a huge fan of "classic metal" (I only "sort of like" Candlemass).

As for My Dying Bride, their output spans genres. I think my fave stuff was their early Doom/Death stuff, especially Turn Loose the Swans, which has some of the most interesting drumming I've heard in this style.

I'm glad that a "classic doom" sounding band like Khemmis is the go-to band at the moment as opposed to some beauty and the beast type band. One virtue of doom/death or death metal is stylistically, bands like Death or Carcass broke conventions of song writing (though I will admit they introduced their own conventions)

Vocals can be so polarizing. To me, the clean, (especially operatic) trad metal vocals reminds me of the "old way," or the European way, and the death growls/thrash metal punk voice to me are more emotional, more abstract, lack clarity but are full of intent.


The crust punk-death metal influenced vocal is the sound of the city to me. I love it, and feel compelled to defend the style!

 

[hardtop]

However, as a musician and as a fan, I have to accept that every band has their own journey and they have to make themselves happy.

That's a super mature way to look at things. I have found myself getting upset or disappointed when a band evolves into something that is no longer in my proverbial wheelhouse... but I have to reel myself in, and look at it from a musicians point of view; this is their art, their experience, and they can still be excellent even as they evolve. Sometimes if we look at the stylistic changes with an open mind, it's often not "worse", just "different".

The risk for me as a fan is that they go the way of Sword or Opeth and basically stop being a metal band in any real way.

I feel confident you won't have to worry about that.

 

[mbelue]

Bands are made of people (I think), and people (bands and listeners) all change at different rates.

Often if an album comes out very dissimilar to a previous release I'm initially turned off. I'll put that album away for a few years but hold onto it.
A few times when i've come back and have warmed to the album.

Witchcraft was like that. Legend was a too much change for me initially, but I dig it now.

I'm moody and I know I gotta listen to things a couple of times in different circumstances.

 

[br1qbat]

Bands are made of people (I think), and people (bands and listeners) all change at different rates.

Often if an album comes out very dissimilar to a previous release I'm initially turned off. I'll put that album away for a few years but hold onto it.
A few times when i've come back and have warmed to the album.

Witchcraft was like that. Legend was a too much change for me initially, but I dig it now.

I'm moody and I know I gotta listen to things a couple of times in different circumstances.

Some of my fave albums were ones that I initially didn't like, but had something that kept me revisiting it.
A few:
The Who - The Who Sell Out
Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica
Gentle Giant - Octopus
Bathory - s/t
Ornette Coleman - Science Fiction

And for doom:
Sleep - Dopesmoker
Bell Witch - Mirror Reaper
Slabdragger - Regress

 

[socialleper]

Do any of you use something like EZDrummer for writing or doing solo stuff? Does it have kits that work well for the stoner\doom genres? Does it sound too "digital" for genres that tend to embrace simple\lo-hi recordings?

 

[Kriegs]

This is what I use to practice / write, it's old and there is only so much variety in pre-loaded beats but it works really well until I get together with my drummer

 

[Novarocker]

Man I need to check back more often...

I wonder what happened. I thought he\she was cool.

Same here, was a real cool dude.

Btw dig your thoughts on bands and their change, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I definitely in the boat as @mbelue and @br1qbat for some of my favorite albums. Hell I remember being real into avenged sevenfolds first album back when it came out, the rest of theirs...utter crap besides maybe the second album.

he called someone out in the Rickenbacker thread. he's on the FB page though

Glad he's on the FB page now, although I'm never on FB.

 

[Novarocker]

I sometimes practice with my Korg volca sampler/sequencer, gets the job done. Or I'll use the rhythm machine on my organ. I'm not picky, but I've thought about getting a drum machine.

 

[socialleper]

I downloaded this first thing this morning. The CD is on its way. Pretty interesting stuff. 2018 seems to be the year bands take some big chances with their music.

Eye The Tide, by Spaceslug

 

[gfen]

I really liked their first album, but was ambivalent on the second.

Let's see where #3 goes...

 

[Batsquatch]

Anybody use a way huge pork loin ? I’m digging sound clips but I hated the pickle.