Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[scabpicker]

I’m trying to figure out if the extra amp and some of the complexity is going to translate to a tangible benefit in your average live setting.

In my experience, if you can get a sound guy to mic one cab instead of or in addition to sticking a direct box in front of you or taking the direct out of your head, you're doing really well. In cases where your stage volume competes with the PA and how they mic you isn't really important, it might make a difference. If you're in a place where the PA is going to be actually providing the majority of the sound, not so much unless you can get the sound guy to devote a mic to each cab. In the latter case, without the extra mics you're just dragging a bunch of equipment around to be stage dressing. That has its own effects and benefits, but it's probably not going to affect the audience in anything but a visual way in that situation.

So, it will have a definite benefit in the smallest and largest of settings. Though, you're going to have to manage them well yourself to get the best results in a small setting (for instance, where only the drums and vocals get mics). In the largest settings: HAH! that's a problem for the sound guy to figure out. Let's see if we can help him, because it's in our best interests. In the medium settings: yeah, you're lucky to get a mic if he's willing to get a direct out from your amp instead of just sticking a direct box on you.

----------non bass content below, but I do love on the bass player---------

In the world of a bass player being invited to be a lead guitarist: I really could not be happier with a first practice. I thought it was going to be an angular post-rock band, but the bass player ( ) started talking about tuning down before we even got started. We started a half step down from standard. I ended up being in C# standard, and the other two stringed instruments were in drop C#, and it was pretty minimalist and heavy, with delicate moments. Almost a New Waver/Doom sound. I was searching for the right place to be musically a few times, but everyone seemed stoked about what I was playing, and I loved how everyone else was sounding. It's a pity we won't be able to practice again for two weeks.

Of course I was a semi-fool, and I bought a Roland JC 40 for both recording at home and using with this band when I thought it was going to be angular post-rock. Part of me says "You simply bought the wrong amp for this band." Another part of me says "Screw it, it's plenty loud and is a great pedal platform - plus stereo!" I was using a Orange Rocker 30 head and Marshall 2x12 cab that belongs to the singer/guitarist in another band of mine for this practice. Who knows, I may end up dragging my Silvertone Twin Twelve (that's older than I am) around with this band (or buying that expensive guitar rig from that singer) if the JC 40 doesn't work out.

But really, I kind of hope the JC 40 works out. It's got that sexy chorus/vibrato.

 

[Will_White]

In my experience, if you can get a sound guy to mic one cab instead of or in addition to sticking a direct box in front of you or taking the direct out of your head, you're doing really well. In cases where your stage volume competes with the PA and how they mic you isn't really important, it might make a difference. If you're in a place where the PA is going to be actually providing the majority of the sound, not so much unless you can get the sound guy to devote a mic to each cab. In the latter case, without the extra mics you're just dragging a bunch of equipment around to be stage dressing. That has its own effects and benefits, but it's probably not going to affect the audience in anything but a visual way in that situation.

So, it will have a definite benefit in the smallest and largest of settings. Though, you're going to have to manage them well yourself to get the best results in a small setting (for instance, where only the drums and vocals get mics). In the largest settings: HAH! that's a problem for the sound guy to figure out. Let's see if we can help him, because it's in our best interests. In the medium settings: yeah, you're lucky to get a mic if he's willing to get a direct out from your amp instead of just sticking a direct box on you.

----------non bass content below, but I do love on the bass player---------

In the world of a bass player being invited to be a lead guitarist: I really could not be happier with a first practice. I thought it was going to be an angular post-rock band, but the bass player ( ) started talking about tuning down before we even got started. We started a half step down from standard. I ended up being in C# standard, and the other two stringed instruments were in drop C#, and it was pretty minimalist and heavy, with delicate moments. Almost a New Waver/Doom sound. I was searching for the right place to be musically a few times, but everyone seemed stoked about what I was playing, and I loved how everyone else was sounding. It's a pity we won't be able to practice again for two weeks.

Of course I was a semi-fool, and I bought a Roland JC 40 for both recording at home and using with this band when I thought it was going to be angular post-rock. Part of me says "You simply bought the wrong amp for this band." Another part of me says "Screw it, it's plenty loud and is a great pedal platform - plus stereo!" I was using a Orange Rocker 30 head and Marshall 2x12 cab that belongs to the singer/guitarist in another band of mine for this practice. Who knows, I may end up dragging my Silvertone Twin Twelve (that's older than I am) around with this band (or buying that expensive guitar rig from that singer) if the JC 40 doesn't work out.

But really, I kind of hope the JC 40 works out. It's got that sexy chorus/vibrato.

If you like the Rocker 30 a Joyo Oxford Sound is 30-40$ could scratch the itch in front of the JC40

 

[scabpicker]

If you like the Rocker 30 a Joyo Oxford Sound is 30-40$ could scratch the itch in front of the JC40

I gotta admit, the Rocker 30 really did soften the sound of the pedal line up I slapped together and brought to practice, which was pretty much the wrong setup to bring to anything Doom-y, other than a Zvex Fuzzolo (hey, I was expecting to get a "yeah, we'll call you" response). But woah, the Rocker 30 is an expensive pretty to tame a sound that's almost already there.

Even if I don't think I need it to tame something about the JC40, I'm probably going to grab one of those pedals because I think I'd be crazy to not use one as a preamp and try sending it to a cab sim while recording at home. Thank you for the heads up!

 

[Novarocker]

Hey all, been a while! Everything's pretty solid on my end though crazy and busy as hell. Long story short 2022 was good, I think '23 will be better, though definitely more on the purge end...got to Jam with my drummer buddy and we're going to figure a way to bring out band out of the ashes this year. Somehow, but I'm stoked!

No, no, no - I'm trying to make stuff GO AWAY this year!

And speaking of which... anybody ever try a Way Huge Purple Platypus or Angry Troll? Are they decent? I've been offered them in trade for some stuff I'm trying to get rid of locally, but I'm not sure I'll use them. I've never had either, and I DO love Way Huge pedals, though. From quick internet research, the Platypus just seems a bit odd, which might be cool, and the Troll seems like a fairly straightforward clean to dirty boost - though some people say it's a bit dark. If it IS dark,, I don't want it, as I typically use a boost for a slight bit more treble. Anyway - thoughts/experiences appreciated.

Thanks as usual, all, and Happy New Year!

Probably late to the party but the Platypus is pretty rad for guitar. I thought it sounded great on bass too, but I can't remember if it cut lows. I think it did. Eitherway the octave on I was great and expressive, could get it to bloom and the dirt actually sounded better with lower gain IMO. Worth the street price I last new for em ~$90.

Like I can dig some TOOL but only if I never read anything their true believers post online. Despite Danny Carey being a semi-divine being, no, Tool is not the most technical most elaborately and intricately written music in the history of the universe with lyrics that will bless you with deep gnosis when your feeble mind finally grasps their esoteric majesty.

They are just HELMET if Helmet took DMT.

But hey, Tool might be the only band to get more mileage out of 0--10--12 than Sleep. Lol.

That's actually legit. I was a huge tool fan, still am to some extent, but never understood the insanity of their hardcore fans.

Truly crazy. And i dgaf about the anesthetics if I can one hand a cab this loud lol

That's awesome, let us know if you use it for a gig. I've always dug cabs like that for practice or lower volume gigs (jazz, not so loud funk, etc). But they always seemed to lose out unless placed across the room once you started to get loud.

 

[Kaa]

Hey all. I got nothin'. Me mitts were sore after a few days of consistent playing, so I've slacked for the last 48 hours. Playing fingerstyle, I thought, was going to be the best route for pain avoidance, but it seems like it's the same as pick style. Yeesh. Don't get old.

 

[br1qbat]

Hey all, been a while! Everything's pretty solid on my end though crazy and busy as hell. Long story short 2022 was good, I think '23 will be better, though definitely more on the purge end...got to Jam with my drummer buddy and we're going to figure a way to bring out band out of the ashes this year. Somehow, but I'm stoked!

Let me know when you have it figured out and are gig ready and we'll set something up with you guys!

Also Joyo Voodoo Octave is a great way to spend $40. Won't dethrone the Superfuzz, but its pretty dang great. It gets a little lost in a mix, but playing way up the neck gave me instant Cliff Burton vibes. I'm trying to figure out where to use it live, but I will absolutely be using it while recording.

 

[rutrho]

Not much going on here... Started band PA upgrades then my jeep decided that its motor was no longer for this world... so I've been dealing with THAT.

Band 1 is going well, Band 2 wants to get shows going, but I have a couple more songs to get down to a good point before that happens, then I might have a thing with band 3 this Friday. Idk. Its a lot, plus the prob... 25 hours to get my jeep back together, but who knows.

We'll see if band 3 pans out or not.

 

[br1qbat]

Of course I was a semi-fool, and I bought a Roland JC 40 for both recording at home and using with this band when I thought it was going to be angular post-rock. Part of me says "You simply bought the wrong amp for this band." Another part of me says "Screw it, it's plenty loud and is a great pedal platform - plus stereo!" I was using a Orange Rocker 30 head and Marshall 2x12 cab that belongs to the singer/guitarist in another band of mine for this practice. Who knows, I may end up dragging my Silvertone Twin Twelve (that's older than I am) around with this band (or buying that expensive guitar rig from that singer) if the JC 40 doesn't work out.

But really, I kind of hope the JC 40 works out. It's got that sexy chorus/vibrato.

Jc40 will work for everything. Its like a Fender Twin. Clean, stupid loud, and loves pedals. Sounds like a keeper to me. Means more flavors of dirt and fuzz.

 

[scabpicker]

Jc40 will work for everything. Its like a Fender Twin. Clean, stupid loud, and loves pedals. Sounds like a keeper to me. Means more flavors of dirt and fuzz.

You said it! And the on-board distortion isn't bad, at all. It arrived this afternoon, and after a few minutes of fooling around with it, I got a song idea and decided to sketch it out. This is it on both guitar and bass, noting but its on-board distortion, vibrato and reverb. I didn't do much with this track besides pan the two a bit to each side. I'm sure I could get it sounding better by balancing the two IR cab sim channels, but this is good enough for a sketch of a song.




And for the pics or it didn't happen crowd: Here's your pic of a teeny solid state amp

 

[kleinenenten]

Probably late to the party but the Platypus is pretty rad for guitar. I thought it sounded great on bass too, but I can't remember if it cut lows. I think it did. Eitherway the octave on I was great and expressive, could get it to bloom and the dirt actually sounded better with lower gain IMO. Worth the street price I last new for em ~$90.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I may reach out to the guy and get it. It's a trade, and I think the combo he's offering may be slightly in my favor, but regardless, I don't have anything quite like the Platypus, so there's that. I DO have things similar (and which I prefer) to the things I am potentially trading away.

 

[br1qbat]

You said it! And the on-board distortion isn't bad, at all. It arrived this afternoon, and after a few minutes of fooling around with it, I got a song idea and decided to sketch it out. This is it on both guitar and bass, noting but its on-board distortion, vibrato and reverb. I didn't do much with this track besides pan the two a bit to each side. I'm sure I could get it sounding better by balancing the two IR cab sim channels, but this is good enough for a sketch of a song.




And for the pics or it didn't happen crowd: Here's your pic of a teeny solid state amp

View attachment 4933128

I like the vibrato tonez

 

[Kaa]

Cool tones, Scabby. Does the JC-40 have extension cab ability? Having never used one I don't know how loud it can get, but if you could do an extension cab for it, that may do the trick. (And save you some large cash in the process. That Orange gear ain't cheap!) Probably durable as all get out as well.

 

[YawningJorin]

Made some more progress on my pedalboard restoration efforts after The Great Patchbay Effort Of 2022. Mostly working now. Had some fun with electricity -- accidentally ripped a 230V powerCON cable and tickled my pinky with it. Kind of wishing I'd used C13/C14 instead of powerCON. An important principle of engineering is, after all, graceful failure. Because when something fails, it's the weakest link. And usually you want that to be easily fixed and not dangerous. Nevertheless, I repaired it, made a far longer cable, and found that there's a 150V or so difference between two different outlets of my house in some way. This caused arcing between the USB coming from my computer connected to one outlet and the pedalboard connected to another. Until this house gets common ground, I'm not crossing cables cables like that ever again. Such are the horrors of a 50-year old electrical installation. Only thing not working on the board is the phaser loop, which I have to look into. The Kuro T120 and Exegol have been excellent replacements for the Dunwich DA120 and the Ground Fx Burning Sunn, respectively. They're both a lot easier to work with overall and sound just as great! It's nice to have my bass ready to play through my rig again -- it's been about a year of executive dysfunction and other priorities.

 

[scabpicker]

Cool tones, Scabby. Does the JC-40 have extension cab ability? Having never used one I don't know how loud it can get, but if you could do an extension cab for it, that may do the trick. (And save you some large cash in the process. That Orange gear ain't cheap!) Probably durable as all get out as well.

Sadly, no extension cab ability. It does have stereo line outs after the preamp/effects, though. So if you really needed to be louder than it is alone and for some reason you're not going to be mic'd, you could always run it into the power amp(s)/cabinets of your choice. It really is quite loud, though. I haven't tried to compete with a drum set yet, but I'd be *very* surprised if I had to turn it up past more than 5 or so. When That Pedal Show did a review of it, it was easily hitting 100db with the volume on 3. It's actually as loud as a Peavey 6505 through a Marshall 4x12 with the volume on 3 in the same video.

 

[Kaa]

Made some more progress on my pedalboard restoration efforts after The Great Patchbay Effort Of 2022. Mostly working now. Had some fun with electricity -- accidentally ripped a 230V powerCON cable and tickled my pinky with it. Kind of wishing I'd used C13/C14 instead of powerCON. An important principle of engineering is, after all, graceful failure. Because when something fails, it's the weakest link. And usually you want that to be easily fixed and not dangerous. Nevertheless, I repaired it, made a far longer cable, and found that there's a 150V or so difference between two different outlets of my house in some way. This caused arcing between the USB coming from my computer connected to one outlet and the pedalboard connected to another. Until this house gets common ground, I'm not crossing cables cables like that ever again. Such are the horrors of a 50-year old electrical installation. Only thing not working on the board is the phaser loop, which I have to look into. The Kuro T120 and Exegol have been excellent replacements for the Dunwich DA120 and the Ground Fx Burning Sunn, respectively. They're both a lot easier to work with overall and sound just as great! It's nice to have my bass ready to play through my rig again -- it's been about a year of executive dysfunction and other priorities.

That'll wake you right up!

 

[Kaa]

Sadly, no extension cab ability. It does have stereo line outs after the preamp/effects, though. So if you really needed to be louder than it is alone and for some reason you're not going to be mic'd, you could always run it into the power amp(s)/cabinets of your choice. It really is quite loud, though. I haven't tried to compete with a drum set yet, but I'd be *very* surprised if I had to turn it up past more than 5 or so. When That Pedal Show did a review of it, it was easily hitting 100db with the volume on 3. It's actually as loud as a Peavey 6505 through a Marshall 4x12 with the volume on 3 in the same video.

Wow. Wonder if they do the Vox AC-30 thing where they don't worry about any frequencies besides right in the sweet spot for guitar, so all the power is going to those frequencies. (Making 40 watts reeeaaallly loud.)

 

[Flamingo21]

found that there's a 150V or so difference between two different outlets of my house

 

[themarshall]

I was wondering people’s thoughts on multi-amping in the real world. I’ve been doing it in our practice space for a while and like the sound and separation but wondering if it’s going to be better than sending a mixed signal to a single amp.

My chain gets split by a Hotone volume/wah with the wah going to the guitar amp after an HPF. I also have an American Sound and a Sonicake IR pedal for when we go ampless at a couple small places we play. I use the tuner out from the wah for the bass amp signal which goes through a phaser and sansamp. I have a Fearful 212 which is pretty close to full range so I wouldn’t be limited by that.

I’m trying to figure out if the extra amp and some of the complexity is going to translate to a tangible benefit in your average live setting.

As others have said, sound people are going be your limiting factor. I was going to say 2 amps into the 212 was a good option, but that really requires FOH that understands you need full range and isn’t going to ignore all of your signal higher than the sub x-over point. I think your best bet is 2 channels. As a realist/pessimist, I’d say even if you have 2 channels, the sound person will probably only worry about getting something in the subs.

…New Waver/Doom sound…

So, like, Psychedelic Furs meets St. Vitus or more Talking Heads meets Pentagram?

Not much going on here... Started band PA upgrades then my jeep decided that its motor was no longer for this world... so I've been dealing with THAT.

Band 1 is going well, Band 2 wants to get shows going, but I have a couple more songs to get down to a good point before that happens, then I might have a thing with band 3 this Friday. Idk. Its a lot, plus the prob... 25 hours to get my jeep back together, but who knows.

We'll see if band 3 pans out or not.

Bummer on the Jeepster. ( (T-Rex rules!) What failed?

Overall, this thread is giving me second hand stoke. I’ve been in a rut since Thanksgiving. MIL is staying here recovering from shoulder replacement and had a pretty serious pulmonary embolism last week. Partner has been kinda bitchy between work and living with her mom. I did get out winter camping last Saturday night, which was sweet.

 

[themarshall]

Made some more progress on my pedalboard restoration efforts after The Great Patchbay Effort Of 2022. Mostly working now. Had some fun with electricity -- accidentally ripped a 230V powerCON cable and tickled my pinky with it. Kind of wishing I'd used C13/C14 instead of powerCON. An important principle of engineering is, after all, graceful failure. Because when something fails, it's the weakest link. And usually you want that to be easily fixed and not dangerous. Nevertheless, I repaired it, made a far longer cable, and found that there's a 150V or so difference between two different outlets of my house in some way. This caused arcing between the USB coming from my computer connected to one outlet and the pedalboard connected to another. Until this house gets common ground, I'm not crossing cables cables like that ever again. Such are the horrors of a 50-year old electrical installation. Only thing not working on the board is the phaser loop, which I have to look into. The Kuro T120 and Exegol have been excellent replacements for the Dunwich DA120 and the Ground Fx Burning Sunn, respectively. They're both a lot easier to work with overall and sound just as great! It's nice to have my bass ready to play through my rig again -- it's been about a year of executive dysfunction and other priorities.

One HUNNERT FIDDY V +/-!?!?!
Euro wiring uses scary numbers. I was going to dispute your 50 year old wiring claim, but that’s legitimately about the oldest you’ll find. Yes, there’s 100yr old wiring, but almost all of it had been updated/added onto in the last 50 years. It’s the build-up of decisions and compromises made over the intervening time that makes it so enjoyable to work with.

*please note I am a carpenter, not an electrician and it would be illegal to practice electricity without a license. Check your local laws.

 

[Kaa]

A guy I knew was installing an A/C unit on a building and someone had left a little nub of a wire exposed, he was backing up with a piece of equipment, and touched the nub with his bum. The result was one of his molars blowing out of his mouth.