Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[kleinenenten]

Hey everybody! Been awhile since I've posted anything. Got some new gear incoming - a nano POG and a Green Russian reissue Big Muff (I'm such an Ehx fanboy lol). I'll try to remember to give a lowdown when I get them.

Decided that my current fuzz's analog octave was too squirrelly (every live vid of my band I've heard I always think the tone is soo off from what I hear on stage). I have a RAT too so I'm gonna experiment with it and the POG and/or stacking with the Muff).

In other awesome news, my band gets to open for legends THE OBSESSED on 10/4 in Detroit which happens to be the day before my b-day AND Obsessed are playing "The Church Within" in full AND that is my fave Obsessed record. Yeehaw!

I rather liked the EHX Reissue Green Russian. I had an ever so slight preference for the Russian Pickle, but was 100% splitting hairs, and I preferred the top jacks of the Russian. If memory serves, I felt the EHX was slightly darker (which is probably a preference for some!) and bassier, whereas the Russian Pickle was slightly more aggressive and articulate. But either one could cop the other's tones with a knob adjust of around 1 "hour" either way, give or take. Both solid pedals, and the EHX seems more readily available and more affordable!

Nothing much going on here outside of buying 3 pedals: an EHX Germanium 4 Big Muff, a JRR Pedals Ram Triangle, and an AMT Ultima U2 IR cab sim/multi effect.

I have had the Germanium 4 before and used it in guitar context, but this thing works very well for bass. Still need to try the JRR and route up the AMT, as that one will get use for recording.

Also digging the new Huntsmen album a lot.

I've never liked Germanium diodes on a Muff. They're always completely muffled to me, with no articulation at all. That being said, I have plenty of Muff clones with that option (I just don't use it). I'm currently listening to the old demo of the Germanium Muff on guitar and quite like it. Is Germanium one of those temperature sensitive diodes? My jam room is in a chilly basement, so maybe that's part of the problem. And maybe I need to try them more on guitar! Would be interested in your takes on both guitar and bass, regardless.

 

[JAFERD]

I’ve been loving my Idiotbox Blower Box for dirt, but my drummer swears his ODB-3 is the thing. He’s gonna bring it to our next practice to try out, I guess we will see…

 

[br1qbat]

I rather liked the EHX Reissue Green Russian. I had an ever so slight preference for the Russian Pickle, but was 100% splitting hairs, and I preferred the top jacks of the Russian. If memory serves, I felt the EHX was slightly darker (which is probably a preference for some!) and bassier, whereas the Russian Pickle was slightly more aggressive and articulate.

My first pedal back in the day (late 90s) was a Black Russian. Never should have sold it. The Green Russians had the same circuit, according to the Big Muff page, so it's a no brainer for me. Plus those big black box Russian pedals are a bit temperamental. My black russian small stone (while amazing) sometimes refuses to work, which is why I only use it for recording (I wish they'd reissue it - the modern ones sound different - I had both for a hot minute).

 

[kleinenenten]

I’ve been loving my Idiotbox Blower Box for dirt, but my drummer swears his ODB-3 is the thing. He’s gonna bring it to our next practice to try out, I guess we will see…

In my experience, it depends what you want. I LOVE my MBD-2, but it's got plenty of similarities to the Blower Box. Both can cut like mad, though the Blower Box is a touch grainier from what I recall. I DO know that I found the treble harshness too much in the Blower Box, but that's a pet peeve of mine and many people love it. For me, the Blower Box was passed along as I wanted a grittier and heftier Rat style pedal, and I kept having the dirt portion of the Blower Box obscured in the mix. It just sounded like a cutting clean tone. It certainly retained bass well enough, just didn't do it for me. The BB Deluxe was better, but ultimately fell as well, and for the same reasons. For Rats, I ended up with a Volt Thrower clone and a Tremond. #3 is a Bass Mountain.

All that being said, I wasn't looking for them to do the same thing - I was wanting two separate tones and I preferred the MBD-2 for my goal of a more traditional thrash/death/general metal tone. They were fairly similar how I liked them both set. So the MBD-3 might be your ticket!

 

[kleinenenten]

My first pedal back in the day (late 90s) was a Black Russian. Never should have sold it. The Green Russians had the same circuit, according to the Big Muff page, so it's a no brainer for me. Plus those big black box Russian pedals are a bit temperamental. My black russian small stone (while amazing) sometimes refuses to work, which is why I only use it for recording (I wish they'd reissue it - the modern ones sound different - I had both for a hot minute).

This is one of the reasons I've avoided getting a vintage Russian. Never know what you'll get. It's the same reason I've been collecting CMC Muffs the last 6 months or so too - they're reliable, have some useful additional features (top jacks, true bypass, diode selection, mids control), and sound awesome, plus brand new they cost about the same as a modern used EHX. No brainer for me here.

 

[Ritter667]

My first pedal back in the day (late 90s) was a Black Russian. Never should have sold it. The Green Russians had the same circuit, according to the Big Muff page, so it's a no brainer for me. Plus those big black box Russian pedals are a bit temperamental. My black russian small stone (while amazing) sometimes refuses to work, which is why I only use it for recording (I wish they'd reissue it - the modern ones sound different - I had both for a hot minute).

The dirt cheap Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser clone of the big box Small Stone is pretty amazing.
Try that, better than EHX's own Nano reissue.

 

[br1qbat]

The dirt cheap Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser clone of the big box Small Stone is pretty amazing.
Try that, better than EHX's own Nano reissue.

I use a Maxon Phasetone (essentially a MXR script 90) which I love. SS is an unique beast tho

 

[kleinenenten]

How many of you fine folks use cabsims? I'm still loving my CabDryVR, but looking for options. So far, I have 2 CabDryVRs - one for bass and one for guitar. No real complaints here, as they're far better than my old DOD DI/CabSims, and I got them both for a steal. But of course, neither is exactly perfect. So is there a cabsim out there that meets these criteria? Or is the term IR loader these days? Whatever it is, I want something that will go into the FX loop of my amp and simulate my GK Neo 410 cabs. I never use enough volume to need to emulate power amp saturation, so that's not a concern.

1. Affordable - like $80ish, used is fine, and if I go the IR route, I don't want super expensive ones. I think there are free options?
2. Simple to use - I don't want to constantly load IRs (I'm sure I can figure it out and am not opposed, just have no interest in comparing a plethora of cab), I just want my "current cab" tone
3. Can simulate a GK Neo 410
4. Simultaneous dual outs - one affected to run to a PA/recording interface, and the other dry to go to my amp

So, anything out there like this?

 

[davedamage]

My setup only fits numbers 3 and 4... I have a Quad Cortex on my pedalbard and my band practices through a Jamhub and headphones. It will 100% do what you want at 20x your budget.

The only other one I have owned was a Two Notes Torpedo CAB M+ and I loved it, but ultimately made redundant by the QC. It's a bit more and can load any IR you want, as well as their proprietary DynIR files which let you adjust the mic placement, among other things. In my opinion, it's a fantastic IR loader.

 

[kleinenenten]

My setup only fits numbers 3 and 4... I have a Quad Cortex on my pedalbard and my band practices through a Jamhub and headphones. It will 100% do what you want at 20x your budget.

Right. That's the concern. I KNOW I can get everything I want tone-wise, but seeing as I'm a hobbyist, I try and keep expenses down. There's no reason another CabDryVR won't work, I just thought I'd see if I can get better.

Is the Mooer Radar a thing that would do this stuff? I know it only has a single out, but I could split my signal if needed with my old DOD splitter. I guess that goes for other solutions too.

 

[Kawai2g4b]

I rather liked the EHX Reissue Green Russian. I had an ever so slight preference for the Russian Pickle, but was 100% splitting hairs, and I preferred the top jacks of the Russian. If memory serves, I felt the EHX was slightly darker (which is probably a preference for some!) and bassier, whereas the Russian Pickle was slightly more aggressive and articulate. But either one could cop the other's tones with a knob adjust of around 1 "hour" either way, give or take. Both solid pedals, and the EHX seems more readily available and more affordable!

I've never liked Germanium diodes on a Muff. They're always completely muffled to me, with no articulation at all. That being said, I have plenty of Muff clones with that option (I just don't use it). I'm currently listening to the old demo of the Germanium Muff on guitar and quite like it. Is Germanium one of those temperature sensitive diodes? My jam room is in a chilly basement, so maybe that's part of the problem. And maybe I need to try them more on guitar! Would be interested in your takes on both guitar and bass, regardless.

You are right about germanium being temperature-sensitive. My experience with it on guitar is that it’s very versatile but single coils get the absolute best out of them. As for the Germanium 4, it’s a bit of a different beast in that it’s a fuzz and OD in one pedal. The OD side sounds great with bass or guitar and gives a nice brassier upper midrange peak that cuts through well. The fuzz side is very versatile as is like a more aggressive version of the OD and the voltage control can make some aggressive splatty fuzz tones.

I have found it to like thicker tube-driven amp circuits along the Ampeg lineage in my experience but it’s possible to make it work in a lot of rigs that aren’t super clean hi-fi ones.

 

[kleinenenten]

You are right about germanium being temperature-sensitive. My experience with it on guitar is that it’s very versatile but single coils get the absolute best out of them. As for the Germanium 4, it’s a bit of a different beast in that it’s a fuzz and OD in one pedal. The OD side sounds great with bass or guitar and gives a nice brassier upper midrange peak that cuts through well. The fuzz side is very versatile as is like a more aggressive version of the OD and the voltage control can make some aggressive splatty fuzz tones.

I have found it to like thicker tube-driven amp circuits along the Ampeg lineage in my experience but it’s possible to make it work in a lot of rigs that aren’t super clean hi-fi ones.

You've pretty much explained why I don't think Germanium would work for me! The temperature is probably not right, and I have only humbuckers, both on guitar and bass (minus a single P/J bass). No interest in single coils, and I'm not an Ampeg fan these days.

 

[Novarocker]

I gotta read the latest page, been slammed this week. Wanted to get this up here for everyone to enjoy: I did get to swap in a pair of bass speakers to the Ampeg, it sounds so damn good and was cheap and easy to seal the other openings.

Hey everybody! Been awhile since I've posted anything. Got some new gear incoming - a nano POG and a Green Russian reissue Big Muff (I'm such an Ehx fanboy lol). I'll try to remember to give a lowdown when I get them.

Decided that my current fuzz's analog octave was too squirrelly (every live vid of my band I've heard I always think the tone is soo off from what I hear on stage). I have a RAT too so I'm gonna experiment with it and the POG and/or stacking with the Muff).

In other awesome news, my band gets to open for legends THE OBSESSED on 10/4 in Detroit which happens to be the day before my b-day AND Obsessed are playing "The Church Within" in full AND that is my fave Obsessed record. Yeehaw!

That'll be a awesome night! Great place to play too. I gotta check my schedule and make myself free for that!

 

[Novarocker]

@kleinenenten I don't know much about the mooer, but I think it may be able to do close to the GK thing. Outside of a modeler/DAW plug-ins, I have a feeling getting the specific sound you want may be difficult, but IDK.

One thing I will say, is that I've learned more recently, that the reasoning behind a lot of these Klon vs Klone, tube vs modeler, etc. Videos sounding so much alike, is not just all the youtube compression, but more importantly that no matter what's done to record it, it will sound and feel different in person than recorded. It can get close, but becomes that diminishing returns quickly point, just like a good, better, best argument of going from Squier, fender, to custom shop.

Makes me feel a lot better knowing that, but yeah, kinda aggravating in some ways. Luckily, I deal with the same thing in the auto industry for color harmony & appearance wave scans...all the algorithms attempt to make correction for the human eye, but rarely line up as well as you'd like.

All comes down to perception which makes feasibility to perfectly account, capture, or replicate an impossible fool's errand at some levels.

Honestly, I think thats what made Albini so awesome. His goal was to capture that as close as possible, and he was damn good at it.

Germanium, from my recollection, people would shove it in freezers (Sylvia Massey comes to mind seeing her do it in a vid) before using to record. Hot outdoor stages were where people didn't like typically. I could be way wrong though. Ge is a very temp sensitive being a metal vs Si which is not. I don't think I've used many pedals with Ge.

@br1qbat is the bad stone similar to the small stone? I got a DIY clone of a bad stone thats pretty slick, even has a "manual" mode where you can sweep the phase via a knob.

I've never really used any EHX, phaser or otherwise. Love muffs and the pog series and have had a micro pog forever, but never really used anything else.

 

[br1qbat]

@br1qbat is the bad stone similar to the small stone? I got a DIY clone of a bad stone thats pretty slick, even has a "manual" mode where you can sweep the phase via a knob

I think the Bad Stone has more stages (6?) vs the Small Stone (4).

 

[Ritter667]

I think the Bad Stone has more stages (6?) vs the Small Stone (4).

That would be correct.

Personally I don't like how phasers with more than 4 stages sound, like less organic or more artificial/plastic-ish, like the laser effect in a bad B-movie sci-fi or something.

The Small Stone is huge lush and very organic sounding, love it!

My absolute favorite phaser, no other 4 stage phaser gets quite as lush.

I don't like how the Bad Stone sounds.

Just get the Behringer VP1 Vintage Phaser clone of the original big box EHX Small Stone, sounds amazing, and better than EHX's own Nano reissue, which doesn't sound quite like the original, unlike the much cheaper Behringer.

 

[br1qbat]

Stuck over on lunch break to the practice space. It's a pretty potent combo. Gonna have to get a little loop pedal (Saturnworks or the like) so I can turn both on/off at the same time. The POG clean isn't my vibe. It adds a lot of mids/harmonic content to the Muff as hoped. And ran into the Muff as opposed to after keeps it sounding more natural to my ears. Man, I missed having a Muff. Still the king!

 

[davedamage]

Right. That's the concern. I KNOW I can get everything I want tone-wise, but seeing as I'm a hobbyist, I try and keep expenses down. There's no reason another CabDryVR won't work, I just thought I'd see if I can get better.

Is the Mooer Radar a thing that would do this stuff? I know it only has a single out, but I could split my signal if needed with my old DOD splitter. I guess that goes for other solutions too.

For the money, that Mooer in the classifieds should be hard to beat.

 

[kleinenenten]

For the money, that Mooer in the classifieds should be hard to beat.

Guess I should check the classifieds... Didn't even realize one was there!

 

[kleinenenten]

One thing I will say, is that I've learned more recently, that the reasoning behind a lot of these Klon vs Klone, tube vs modeler, etc. Videos sounding so much alike, is not just all the youtube compression, but more importantly that no matter what's done to record it, it will sound and feel different in person than recorded. It can get close, but becomes that diminishing returns quickly point, just like a good, better, best argument of going from Squier, fender, to custom shop.

Yeah, the diminishing returns are another thing. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with the CabDryVR at all, and it ticks every box I want. The Mooer doesn't quite tick everything, and seems to be more expensive. I'll likely stick with trying to find another CabDryVR.

View attachment 7037878
Stuck over on lunch break to the practice space. It's a pretty potent combo. Gonna have to get a little loop pedal (Saturnworks or the like) so I can turn both on/off at the same time. The POG clean isn't my vibe. It adds a lot of mids/harmonic content to the Muff as hoped. And ran into the Muff as opposed to after keeps it sounding more natural to my ears. Man, I missed having a Muff. Still the king!

Those are pretty similar to my preferred settings on the EHX Reissue! I think I had gain slightly lower, but tone was usually 1:30-3:00 depending. And weirdly, I really like those knobs. Like a textured grip, but with a smooth face. Definitely different than the knobs that were on mine.