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Suicide and those quietly considering it
- Thread starter i_got_a_mohawk
- Start date
The 2nd cousin who attempted suicide was taunted throughout high school for being lesbian and "different". Not long after graduation, she decided that it had to end. I have only met her once- partially because my uncle transferred to California in the early '70s and we didn't see them much after that (I'm in MKE) and because her dad became bi-polar in the late '70s and the rest of his family doesn't have much to do with him because of how abusive he has been. She seemed quiet, a bit distant, but definitely not extremely depressed at the time. However, I could see that it might have been due to it being the first time meeting with people she may/may not have heard much about. She has been in contact with her dad since her attempt.
Sure, guns are harder to get in England, but if someone wants one, they'll get one. If you didn't get one, it means you didn't want one enough to try hard enough and that's a good sign. There are so many other ways to do this that I would have to say that you weren't as close to suicide as you may think and that's a good thing. I hope it never reaches that point.
That said, researching it and dealing with it are two wildly different things. In research, there's no emotional/psychological connection to anyone involved, even though reading about someone's situation may make the reader sad. It doesn't come close to what someone feels when they find out that someone they're related to, have known most of their life, worked with, went to school with or did business with ends it all. Often, it's completely out of the blue but not necessarily inconceivable once the details of the person's recent life are known. Even if the dead person wasn't particularly well-liked by everyone, it's still a sad thing.
Trust me- you could research this for the rest of your life and it won't get you any closer to knowing how you might feel when you find out that someone you knew committed suicide.
I'm not sure why these threads have been popping up more frequently in the last few months but by comparison, I think the Depression of the 1930s would have been harder to live through than what we have going on now. We didn't have as much violence in the World as we do now and I think that may have something to do with the frequency of suicide now. Also, media have portrayed violence as "not that bad" for so long that it doesn't have much impact on people unless it's extreme. IMO, people were tougher in the past and most just put their head down and got through whatever they were going through.
Every time I read these threads, I remember someone else who died this way and my list is up to 20. Try reading about how that feels.
I actually had a cousin commit suicide not more than 3 months ago. 
Though I was not close to him, it still left me with a weird mix of feelings; Anger, puzzlement, sadness, and just a very uneasy feeling that's hard to describe, like.. this nagging feeling of "how could you!??"
I think the one thing that never popped into my mind is/was "coward".
I also think that there is really no one single reason why people do this, therefore you can't really "pigeonhole" this into any one single explanation or pronouncement.
Though I was not close to him, it still left me with a weird mix of feelings; Anger, puzzlement, sadness, and just a very uneasy feeling that's hard to describe, like.. this nagging feeling of "how could you!??"
I think the one thing that never popped into my mind is/was "coward".
I also think that there is really no one single reason why people do this, therefore you can't really "pigeonhole" this into any one single explanation or pronouncement.
I don't think the world is any more violent now than it was in the 30s. Things may seem more violent and grim because negatives make the news and global media means we hear things from all over the planet when, even 20 years ago things would have flown under the radar.
We too frequently view the past with rose tinted glasses.
Yep! Instant, global media paints a grim picture of the world and it's societies.
+1
Hi XtheDeadPawn.
If you haven't done so already you might want to check out the links in Post #69.
In particular the documentary The Marketing Of Madness offers a perspective on how:
- Over the decades an increasing range of normal human emotions have been reclassified as forms of 'mental illness' in order to treat their alleged 'symptoms' with very profitable psychotropic drugs like Prozac.
- Drug companies control and skew testing procedures to ensure FDA approval.
- Doctors are relentlessly targeted with sophisticated marketing campaigns - which begin when they are in med school - aimed at encouraging them to prescribe these supposedly 'safe' (but actually highly addictive and mind altering) drugs in the sincere belief that they are helping their patients by doing so.
- At one time drug commercials were almost never seen on television because laws of the day required that said commercials include a drug's side effects--which were/are so numerous that they wouldn't fit within the time frame of a TV ad.
- Broadcast laws were later relaxed so that drug ads only had to list a subset of side effects thus enabling pharmaceutical companies to pitch directly to the public. ("Ask your doctor if ______ is right for you.")
- Drug companies run on-line front organizations like TeenScreen which offer broadly-worded questionnaires aimed at 'testing' kids for 'mental illness' so they can be classified as having a 'disability' which must be treated with psychotropic drugs.
- These prescription drugs are involved in the suicides of many veterans.
- A number of those who have attempted to quit psychotropic drugs - like Prozac - cold turkey have had their underlying depression return with a vengeance compounded by severe mental & physical withdrawal symptoms which resulted in them committing suicide or mass murder.
- A gradual reduction in dosage over a year or so would be the safest way of getting off of these dangerous drugs.
Please consider that your current outlook is being distorted by the medication you're taking and plan accordingly.
Prozac (fluoxetine), being in the generic market now (no patent cover) shouldn't be expensive (but things are different here).
Not seen that documentary, but shall give it a watch at some point, I presume it'll be the standard "drug companies are evil" perspective?
Though I do agree that they are vastly over perscribed, but it's a part of human nature, wanting the easy way, wanting a pill to fix everything. Though on the flip side, I can say that citalopram certainly (personally) helped take the edge off.
Not seen that documentary, but shall give it a watch at some point, I presume it'll be the standard "drug companies are evil" perspective?
Though I do agree that they are vastly over perscribed, but it's a part of human nature, wanting the easy way, wanting a pill to fix everything. Though on the flip side, I can say that citalopram certainly (personally) helped take the edge off.
I occasionally pop into these types of threads ... as some here may know our son committed suicide at the age of 30 (6+ years ago on December 4th, 2005). And I'll say what I always say, no one has any idea why a person actually makes that final life-ending decision except for the person who kills themselves.
We can all assume, presume, speculate and imagine the reasons for each individual case, but none of us ACTUALLY know why. Just before our son put a Rugar to his chest and pulled the trigger while lying on his bed, he had been promoted to a high position at Intel, was in a loving relationship with a beautiful girl, was sharing his God-given musical abilities with impoverished inner-city youth to give them a better life, etc , etc. He, on the surface, had no reason to end his life.
It was planned and deliberate. No notes, no phone calls, but everything regarding his personal affairs was laid out in an orderly manner to make it easy for his survivors to close out his legal life.
Was he a coward? Don't know. Was he brave? Don't know. Clinically depressed? Don't know. We (his family & close friends) don't have any real idea about any of it, and we have stopped trying to figure it out. In reality, if we did somehow magically find out the real reason, would it make any difference now?
As I usually do in these threads, I caution all to be very careful about how you treat anyone who has been involved in a suicide event, be it your own or another person. Each event is unique to the situation, and while there is some commonality in suicides, no one knows the real reasons. If we did, the suicide would have been prevented.
But early recognition of the warning signs is critically important and we all need to be better informed ... there are some good links here and I'll provide another:
http://www.afsp.org/
We can all assume, presume, speculate and imagine the reasons for each individual case, but none of us ACTUALLY know why. Just before our son put a Rugar to his chest and pulled the trigger while lying on his bed, he had been promoted to a high position at Intel, was in a loving relationship with a beautiful girl, was sharing his God-given musical abilities with impoverished inner-city youth to give them a better life, etc , etc. He, on the surface, had no reason to end his life.
It was planned and deliberate. No notes, no phone calls, but everything regarding his personal affairs was laid out in an orderly manner to make it easy for his survivors to close out his legal life.
Was he a coward? Don't know. Was he brave? Don't know. Clinically depressed? Don't know. We (his family & close friends) don't have any real idea about any of it, and we have stopped trying to figure it out. In reality, if we did somehow magically find out the real reason, would it make any difference now?
As I usually do in these threads, I caution all to be very careful about how you treat anyone who has been involved in a suicide event, be it your own or another person. Each event is unique to the situation, and while there is some commonality in suicides, no one knows the real reasons. If we did, the suicide would have been prevented.
But early recognition of the warning signs is critically important and we all need to be better informed ... there are some good links here and I'll provide another:
http://www.afsp.org/
...with plenty of detail, documentation, court rulings, and former drug company sales representative, doctor, and patient accounts of their experiences.
Sorry to hear about your loss, although it sounds that you are in a familiar place where you kinda just get into this acceptance area of the mourning process.
I finally got to that place for myself last year after almost 4 years of beating myself up everyday.
I honestly know looking back there was absolutely nothing that could have been done to stop what was going on other than to completely take the situation out of the equation and that was impossible. So now my family and I all are just accepting of the fact that we loved him, we supported him, we were ALWAYS there for him as he was for us. We did what anyone could do in a situation like this. There's really no one to blame and no one to be angry with.
I do feel different about not knowing why they actually make that final decision and I think if your son had been more revealing you would as well.
As stated before my uncle was VERY detailed about exactly what was going through his head. He mailed over 30 200+ page suicide notes out to the head of each household in the family the night he did everything.
There are times today where I will still read through it when I am having troubles of my own or stress has gotten me down to remind me that no matter what there are better options.
Likewise, my deepest sympathies to you and your family ....
Acceptance is a difficult journey but in the interest of sanity it is the only journey that we, personally, could choose. Not an hour of any day goes by without thinking of Steve (our son) and we've come to realize that we'll never "get over" his death .... it never gets any better, but it does become "different" somehow .... you probably know what I mean.
Well meaning folk have offered their opinions to us as to how we should deal with it, everything from telling us we should "take 4 weeks to mourn, then get on with our lives" to others that want to talk about it endlessly. I appreciate their sincere intentions, but we just handle things as best we can.
No, I don't want to know any longer. In your case, with written details about his thought process, I might want to know more, but for us it simply isn't worth the time any longer to ponder a question that can't be answered. As I said earlier, each situation is unique to the people involved and there is no right or wrong .... the only wrong I ever see is when someone is openly stating their opinions as broad-based fact, but in those cases their transparency proves them to be the uninformed individuals that they, in fact, are ....
I hope things are more positive and working out for your cousin after that experience. The effects of unrealized, unchecked and untreated mental disorders can/usually do have very negative effects on those closest to the situation. Add in the pressure/expectations of everyday life and that's a very tall order to cope with.
It's very difficult to get access to firearms in the U.K. to be fair, unless you know someone with licensed firearms or go through the process of applying for a license. Other than that you would have to look to the street, I wouldn't recommend that.
I agree completely, I have had close experience with a few of friends and acquaintances, only one family member, that being my grandfather. Research is more geared toward recognizing any obvious signs or major changes in character/personality/perception that may indicate a deeper problem. Even then the spectrum is so wide there may not be any indication or obvious reason at all to consider.
I would say that back in the 30s there was a bigger sense of community and there wasn't the same pressure and expectation compared to modern society IMO. I really wouldn't know where to start with the reasons, for there are way too many. Media is a huge part of the problem IMO, business has no heart.
A work colleague said to me the other day, ''have you had any thoughts of suicide this week'', I said no, he then said ''good I still have time to work on you'', then went into a conversation like nothing happened. This bloke told me last year I should fall off my push bike under a lorry, because in his words, ''there hasn't been any good cyclist deaths recently'.
He seems to think suicide is funny, he's just sick.
He should know better, his daughter suffered from anorexia and she nearly died.
He seems to think suicide is funny, he's just sick.
He should know better, his daughter suffered from anorexia and she nearly died.
When I was younger there was another kid who kinda looked up to me. He always wanted to get closer, but I was a loner and had my personal problems. I did not dislike this kid at all, but I just didn't let anybody get close to me. A few years later he killed himself. I sometimes wonder if I could have made a difference for this kid. I will always wonder.
Maybe, but it's full of idiots, I only get on with a handful of people there.
Sorry but it seems I'm steering this off topic.
Did I mention I'm a masochist?
Also you guessed right I certaintly would say that to someones face.
Everybodies throwing around the word classless at me. I don't compute that word. The only class I know of is the lower, middle, and upper.
@MIJ I LOVE that documentary! I may in fact be numbed down to 1Shot's pain but, I doubt I'd view the suicide person as a victim. I am currently trying to get my Dr to wean me off of my meds. I advise everyone on ANTI-DEPRESSANTS or knows anyone who is to look this site up.
http://theicarusproject.net/
I contrary to what you may believe from my postings am on 1Shot's side. He's hurting and I really do feel sorry for him but, his Uncle I don't feel sympathy at all for him.
You see here's is the defention from Webster of a victim
1
: a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2
: one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent <the schools are victims of the social system>: as a (1): one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions <a victim of cancer> <a victim of the auto crash> <a murder victim> (
2): one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment <a frequent victim of political attacks> b: one that is tricked or duped <a con man's victim>
I don't see suicide anywhere on there do you?
"Injured, destroyed or sacrificed under any of various conditions <a victim of cancer>"
Someone who is destroyed by their own mental condition, yep, could certainly be used to describe a victim as far as I'm concerned.
The Oxford definition also includes:
"a person who has come to feel helpless and passive in the face of misfortune or ill-treatment"
Which also could be used to describe someone who is in the depths of depression...
Someone who is destroyed by their own mental condition, yep, could certainly be used to describe a victim as far as I'm concerned.
The Oxford definition also includes:
"a person who has come to feel helpless and passive in the face of misfortune or ill-treatment"
Which also could be used to describe someone who is in the depths of depression...
I've seen this thread and have steered clear as it's something I had no real experience with until a year and 5 months ago.
I guess I've come to terms with it. I still don't like it but I do understand why it happened.
1976 my mom got sick and had to spend a month in the hospitol. As a kid, a word like cancer didn't really have any meaning. We knew it was pretty serious because mom wasn't home, but again, being kids we really didn't understand what it was she was faced with and was going through. She had her uterous removed and the doctors were certain they got it all.
In 1989 my mom got very sick and had to spend a couple weeks in the hospitol. Being a young man, I knew what cancer meant. She had to have some skin removed, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. Several moles were removed as a precaution. She went home but ended up going back over the course of several months until chemo was brought into play. I was in bootcamp so had no real close contact with her then. Ft Sill Ok. might as well have been a million miles from Sacramento. I do know that her hair never really grew back and that she needed to wear wigs from that point on. When my AIT was done I made it back to visit her and was shocked at how emaciated she was. It really took something out of her. She never really looked like herself from that point on.
In 2009 mom got sick again. We knew this was bad. All of us. She was 54 and I knew then that she might not have the strength to pull this one out. Cancer is as persistent as rust. My mother didn't want to go into the hospitol. She moved in with my aunt and uncle in Fortuna. All my life growing up mom had said when she passed she wanted her ashes to be spread in the redwoods. In 2010 we did just that.
I know she was in pain, and I know she just didn't want to do chemo or deal with doctors any more. She had reached her limit, and instead, took her own life.
I can't say for certain what I would do in her circumstance. I can only say that I don't like what happened, but I understand why it happened. I'm ok with it.
I think sometimes the human factor gets forgotten in talks about this. It's a polarizing topic and strong emotions are certain to come to the fore. What is important is that we all realize that there are no hard fast rules about it. Few get the "luxury" of knowing why, like I have. That, in the end, seems the hardest part. The questions.
I guess I've come to terms with it. I still don't like it but I do understand why it happened.
1976 my mom got sick and had to spend a month in the hospitol. As a kid, a word like cancer didn't really have any meaning. We knew it was pretty serious because mom wasn't home, but again, being kids we really didn't understand what it was she was faced with and was going through. She had her uterous removed and the doctors were certain they got it all.
In 1989 my mom got very sick and had to spend a couple weeks in the hospitol. Being a young man, I knew what cancer meant. She had to have some skin removed, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. Several moles were removed as a precaution. She went home but ended up going back over the course of several months until chemo was brought into play. I was in bootcamp so had no real close contact with her then. Ft Sill Ok. might as well have been a million miles from Sacramento. I do know that her hair never really grew back and that she needed to wear wigs from that point on. When my AIT was done I made it back to visit her and was shocked at how emaciated she was. It really took something out of her. She never really looked like herself from that point on.
In 2009 mom got sick again. We knew this was bad. All of us. She was 54 and I knew then that she might not have the strength to pull this one out. Cancer is as persistent as rust. My mother didn't want to go into the hospitol. She moved in with my aunt and uncle in Fortuna. All my life growing up mom had said when she passed she wanted her ashes to be spread in the redwoods. In 2010 we did just that.
I know she was in pain, and I know she just didn't want to do chemo or deal with doctors any more. She had reached her limit, and instead, took her own life.
I can't say for certain what I would do in her circumstance. I can only say that I don't like what happened, but I understand why it happened. I'm ok with it.
I think sometimes the human factor gets forgotten in talks about this. It's a polarizing topic and strong emotions are certain to come to the fore. What is important is that we all realize that there are no hard fast rules about it. Few get the "luxury" of knowing why, like I have. That, in the end, seems the hardest part. The questions.
