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Super Ambitious 3D Printed Bass Project. No 3D printing experience..:p

suraj

suraj

Oct 1, 2008
750
39
36
Mumbai, India
www.myspace.com
#1
Hi guys,

I am so excited to be posting a whole new thread again, which will, hopefully, turn into a build thread of a 3D printed guitar or bass..!!

For those who are not familiar with who I am and what I've built can see my one and only build here -

The super ambitious first build no woodworking experience thread -
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/super-ambitious-first-build-no-woodworking-experience.855144/page-25


Back on to the 3D printing project, lets just see what one looks like first -

odd-instruments-19.jpg

^^ Image from Google search.

A 3D printing company approached me recently to collaborate with them to build a 3D printed guitar. The company is well established and is doing really well for itself, although it really hasn't made its presence felt to the general public, yet. So to generate awareness about 3D printing, they want to build this guitar and use that to promote themselves.

Since they know nothing about the functioning of a guitar or how its built, they needed someone like to me guide them. With my background in design, and ability to build a guitar from scratch, I feel I will make a really cool guitar. BUT, HOW MUCH DO I CHARGE..!!??


Seriously, this is where you guys are needed..!! How much money should one charge for -

1. Entirely Designing a unique guitar body from scratch, with a complex three dimensional design.
2. Ordering all the parts required like neck+hardware,etc
3. Performing acoustic, structural, weight and balance tests with scaled down test 3d prints
4. Assembling the whole guitar and wiring it. Possibly adding lights to make it blingy
5. 3D modelling the guitar on software (thats gonna be a pain depending on design), and
6. Help with promotions by using this guitar live for my gigs.

The actual 3d printing will be carried out by the company. They will bear the expenses of the project, including cost of hardware, my fees etc. Keep in mind, this will be India's first 3d printed guitar and will be a big form of advertisement for the said company.

If the company approves my quotations, I will convert this into a 3D printed Build Thread !


Your help is really appreciated as always,
Suraj
 
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#2
Cool!

I would keep in mind that this is a possible future for this company and you're going to be helping them tremendously, so don't undercut yourself on the quote. Businesses are able to pay much more than a client who wants a custom guitar. Give yourself a good hourly amount and estimate how many hours you think will go into it, hardware costs, tool costs, tape, glue, whatever. It sounds like you'll basically be doing design, consulting, purchasing, engineering, and lutherie all at the same time, so think about that.

How much? I don't know.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Also, congrats!!
 
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#4
I agree with Lisa on the pricing along with everything else she says (of course! :D). You can't undercut others...but it's also a project you don't want to let slip away, as it's potentially very cool for you in the long term. As an architect, why not simply quote your normal rates for R&D and building time? Estimate the number of hours involved and it should be a pretty decent fee.

I was going to write something like "Are you sure you really want to take this on, given that you say you have never done something like this before?", but then I went and looked at your work in the other thread.

Wow! Unlike so many who have only made one instrument and suddenly and unrealistically want to turn pro or take on a wildly ambitious next project, you clearly have the skills and mindset to do this...and do it brilliantly!
 
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#5
As with the above, I would do the hourly rate for design work, estimate the hours it takes to build, then add a price for cost of materials.
Best of luck, I would definitely be following this.

Quick question, if you do a solidbody, can you print the body with the drill holes for the ground wires?
 
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#7
Oooh, second installment in the Super Ambitious series! Watching this one for sure. I can only repeat what's been said above, estimate the time involved and bid hourly. Good luck! You know you already have an eager audience... ;D
 
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#8
Just don't forget other 3D printed guitars have a wooden core that the body's built around. I imagine if the whole thing is ABS plastic, the tone will be, well, crap. But if it's going to be a metal 3D print, that could be interesting...

Remember, with 3D printing, the sky's the limit. So long as it's got a long straight stretch and fingerboard for the strings, the rest of it doesn't even have to look like a guitar. You could design a bass that looked like a walking stick (insect) or a hanging lamp, if you felt like it. Don't feel limited by prior designs. In fact, if it were me, I'd design something completely off the wall, just to show that it could be done. Maybe looping the body up around the neck like a drunken Escher painting. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do.
 
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#9
Super cool project, hope to see this take off the ground! I would see what rate designers / engineers / draftsmen are typically paid in your country, and use that as a ball park, because that is essentially what you will be doing here, design and engineering.

That bass in the photo you posted would be great for Karnivool's Set Fire to the Hive lol.
 
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#12
BazzTard said:
I'm wanting to hear how a plastic guitar can sound, it will be a good test to see how much wood affects the sound as opposed to plastic.

Seems a weird project to me, I can't see that making a plastic guitar is gonna be better than a traditional wooden one. Sound is organic.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. I have a bass with the body made of aluminum (www.alusonic.com), a Chapman Stick entirely made of graphite, 4 basses with Status Graphite necks and a Steinberger L-2.
They all sound just as well as their wooden counterparts, but stability is very much improved.
I might agree that with an acoustic instrument the material has a big influence, but with an electric instrument, in my experience, the influence is minimal and when there is an influence it is not undesirable.
The Steinberger L-2 might arguably look a bit dated, but it sounds wonderful!

In building a printed instrument, my only worry would be stability of the neck: I would probably think about a neck-through design, so that the bridge is on the same wooden block as the neck and no stress is applied to the plastic material. The wooden part inside the body wouldn't have to be visible (I suspect the bass in the OP is built like that).
 
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#13
BUT, HOW MUCH DO I CHARGE..!!??

Get yourself 3-5 timecards. Track all of you time spent researching, designing, building prototypes, etc. Just jot it down on the cards as you go.

I would say probably $2500, but that is just a number that popped in my head, probably much more, so 1500-10,000? How big is the company.



There is a trick I used to do for situations like this, pretend you are the company that is contracing you, put up an add and interview a few people. Have them give you Quotes.

It's a slimeball move I know, But i have done it, I had to design a catalog and I had no Idea what to charge for hiring models, ohtographer, copy writer and such, so i inquired with other freelancers to get an idea. One guy got really pissed off when he figured out what I did and invoiced me $100 for his time. Harrased me for a long time...I'm tired, very tired, that is probably bad advice, But i wanted to help.
 
#14
Shedua511 said:
I beg to differ. I have a bass with the body made of aluminum (www.alusonic.com), a Chapman Stick entirely made of graphite, 4 basses with Status Graphite necks and a Steinberger L-2.
They all sound just as well as their wooden counterparts, but stability is very much improved.
I might agree that with an acoustic instrument the material has a big influence, but with an electric instrument, in my experience, the influence is minimal and when there is an influence it is not undesirable.
The Steinberger L-2 might arguably look a bit dated, but it sounds wonderful!

In building a printed instrument, my only worry would be stability of the neck: I would probably think about a neck-through design, so that the bridge is on the same wooden block as the neck and no stress is applied to the plastic material. The wooden part inside the body wouldn't have to be visible (I suspect the bass in the OP is built like that).
Click to expand...

Totally agree, wood adds a bit but it's not necessary. How will you do the fretboard tho.... Steinberegers sound awesome,

Hijack a little but I think steinbergers use graphite differently than other companies, Usually when something says graphite now, it is really carbon fiber and epoxy, usually hollow like a shell, even necks. I think steinbergers at least the ones in the 80's were made of blocks of graphite sealed in epoxy. Does anyone know if that is true? I couldn't find solid answers.
 
#15
The "Steinberger composite" was one of their best kept trade secrets, if anyone knows the secret, I'd love to know!
I do know that it was very expensive to produce, one of the main reasons Gibson dropped that product..

I can compare my L-2 to a Moses product (the Stick) and Status Graphite: the L-2 neck seems solid, while the Moses has some chambers and the Status is definitely hollow with some wood reinforcement at the heel and headstock. Also Status is made from graphite cloth.
 
#16
I would ask them what they think is fair, they might be thinking way more than you know, advertising is EXPENSIVE, very expensive.

How about $5,000, that is a nice solid nnumber, especially if you have to gig with it and make appearances.

Possibly charge a certain amout for the design and more for promotion.

Whatver you do retain the rights of your design. Copyright everything you can, every shape, every invention. Patent what you can as well. Then if it takes off you can sell your rights to them.

Not much worse than selling your fortune for pennies. I sold a motorcycle I had wrecked for $500 once. It turned out to be a rare collectors bie worth $5,000, don't sell yourself short.

Another thing that bears speaking of, You wont ever get paid more than you ask for. If you were asked at a job how much you thought you should get paid and you said $25 hour, even if they had been planning on paying you $40 and hourm now they are paying you $25, Don't be humble. I'm not saying to be an arrogant prick, but make it known that you ARe the ONLY person with the combinatoin of skils needed to pull that off. Good lock
 
#18
Shedua511 said:
The "Steinberger composite" was one of their best kept trade secrets, if anyone knows the secret, I'd love to know!
I do know that it was very expensive to produce, one of the main reasons Gibson dropped that product..

I can compare my L-2 to a Moses product (the Stick) and Status Graphite: the L-2 neck seems solid, while the Moses has some chambers and the Status is definitely hollow with some wood reinforcement at the heel and headstock. Also Status is made from graphite cloth.
Click to expand...

I saw a status type cut in half, pretty cool how they do it. Do you think steinberg used solid graphite?
Graphite is used to make glass tools I use, we buy it in blocks and machine it.
The company that makes the blocks grinds carbon to fine dust and the somehow mixes it with epoxy and makes the graphite we are familiar with in pencils and electric motor brushes, I thin Steinberger uses graphite dust and makes their own paste and pours it into molds. That or they carve it from the kind of industrial fgraphite we use.
 
#20
flameworker said:
BUT, HOW MUCH DO I CHARGE..!!??

Get yourself 3-5 timecards. Track all of you time spent researching, designing, building prototypes, etc. Just jot it down on the cards as you go.

I would say probably $2500, but that is just a number that popped in my head, probably much more, so 1500-10,000? How big is the company.



There is a trick I used to do for situations like this, pretend you are the company that is contracing you, put up an add and interview a few people. Have them give you Quotes.

It's a slimeball move I know, But i have done it, I had to design a catalog and I had no Idea what to charge for hiring models, ohtographer, copy writer and such, so i inquired with other freelancers to get an idea. One guy got really pissed off when he figured out what I did and invoiced me $100 for his time. Harrased me for a long time...I'm tired, very tired, that is probably bad advice, But i wanted to help.
Click to expand...
So $2500/number of units sold witch could be millions or could be none, that's the buyers decision and efforts. I say get as much as you can but be honest about your efforts and total cost. 200% mark up is not uncommon on the cutting edge these days.
 
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