Super Ambitious 3D Printed Bass Project. No 3D printing experience..:p

[ICM]

That's great news!

 

[mcarp555]

Don't go for a flat fee; ask for points. If you get a percentage of each one sold (say $1 per unit), you run the risk of not making back your time vs. the chance they might sell 10,000 of them. Or more.

 

[TonH]

I'm wanting to hear how a plastic guitar can sound, it will be a good test to see how much wood affects the sound as opposed to plastic.

Seems a weird project to me, I can't see that making a plastic guitar is gonna be better than a traditional wooden one. Sound is organic.

Well these people say they can make a better guitar of composite material:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[HaMMerHeD]

I'm wanting to hear how a plastic guitar can sound, it will be a good test to see how much wood affects the sound as opposed to plastic.

Seems a weird project to me, I can't see that making a plastic guitar is gonna be better than a traditional wooden one. Sound is organic.

Sound is not organic. It is mechanical vibration. Nothing more.

 

[Jim Carr]

How much to charge?

A lot. Plus, have rights to a share of sales.

 

[LowB-ing]

Don't go for a flat fee; ask for points. If you get a percentage of each one sold (say $1 per unit), you run the risk of not making back your time vs. the chance they might sell 10,000 of them. Or more.

The company does not appear to have any plans to start serial production of guitars though, unless I missunderstood tho OP. They are making a one-off as a PR stunt to show people how cool 3D printing is in general.

 

[BassHappy]

Cool!

I would keep in mind that this is a possible future for this company and you're going to be helping them tremendously, so don't undercut yourself on the quote. Businesses are able to pay much more than a client who wants a custom guitar. Give yourself a good hourly amount and estimate how many hours you think will go into it, hardware costs, tool costs, tape, glue, whatever. It sounds like you'll basically be doing design, consulting, purchasing, engineering, and lutherie all at the same time, so think about that.

How much? I don't know.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Also, congrats!!

You may also want to consider getting some type of royalty moving forward if they decide to use your designs or a slight variation of your designs in some kind of production run....

Yes, KUDOS, what a cool gig.

 

[BassHappy]

The company does not appear to have any plans to start serial production of guitars though, unless I missunderstood tho OP. They are making a one-off as a PR stunt to show people how cool 3D printing is in general.

Plans don't matter, things change.

Go for the royalty.

 

[mcarp555]

The company does not appear to have any plans to start serial production of guitars though, unless I missunderstood tho OP. They are making a one-off as a PR stunt to show people how cool 3D printing is in general.

Then go for both - something like $1,000 plus $1/unit if they develop it into something going foreward.

 

[rogerbmiller]

Subbed!

 

[SirMjac28]

Consult an attorney who specializes in intellectual properties but keep that to yourself at first because it's a great opportunity and you don't want to scare the company away congratulations and we are all looking forward to your design.

 

[lbridenstine]

Just don't forget other 3D printed guitars have a wooden core that the body's built around. I imagine if the whole thing is ABS plastic, the tone will be, well, crap. But if it's going to be a metal 3D print, that could be interesting...

Remember, with 3D printing, the sky's the limit. So long as it's got a long straight stretch and fingerboard for the strings, the rest of it doesn't even have to look like a guitar. You could design a bass that looked like a walking stick (insect) or a hanging lamp, if you felt like it. Don't feel limited by prior designs. In fact, if it were me, I'd design something completely off the wall, just to show that it could be done. Maybe looping the body up around the neck like a drunken Escher painting. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do.

I'm wanting to hear how a plastic guitar can sound, it will be a good test to see how much wood affects the sound as opposed to plastic.

Seems a weird project to me, I can't see that making a plastic guitar is gonna be better than a traditional wooden one. Sound is organic.

I beg to differ. I have a bass with the body made of aluminum (www.alusonic.com), a Chapman Stick entirely made of graphite, 4 basses with Status Graphite necks and a Steinberger L-2.
They all sound just as well as their wooden counterparts, but stability is very much improved.
I might agree that with an acoustic instrument the material has a big influence, but with an electric instrument, in my experience, the influence is minimal and when there is an influence it is not undesirable.
The Steinberger L-2 might arguably look a bit dated, but it sounds wonderful!

In building a printed instrument, my only worry would be stability of the neck: I would probably think about a neck-through design, so that the bridge is on the same wooden block as the neck and no stress is applied to the plastic material. The wooden part inside the body wouldn't have to be visible (I suspect the bass in the OP is built like that).

Along with aluminum, I've also seen guitars made of cement, stained glass, yard sticks, etc, and they all sound like guitars.

There is a trick I used to do for situations like this, pretend you are the company that is contracing you, put up an add and interview a few people. Have them give you Quotes.

It's a slimeball move I know, But i have done it, I had to design a catalog and I had no Idea what to charge for hiring models, ohtographer, copy writer and such, so i inquired with other freelancers to get an idea. One guy got really pissed off when he figured out what I did and invoiced me $100 for his time. Harrased me for a long time...I'm tired, very tired, that is probably bad advice, But i wanted to help.

That's a terrible trick and is probably illegal. Just go online and look up average rates for each.

 

[Barnaby]

Along with aluminum, I've also seen guitars made of cement, stained glass, yard sticks, etc, and they all sound like guitars.

Definitely. Whether it's Flaxwood, MDF, plastic, aluminium, marble...there's probably a way to find sound from anything. There are plenty of plastic guitars out there, from the Dan Armstrong 'lucite' instruments to all sorts of modern composites. A lot of them sound great.

Never seen a stained glass guitar, however...that sent me on a fun Google search. Astonishing stuff!

That's a terrible trick and is probably illegal. Just go online and look up average rates for each.

+1000. There is always good information available if you look hard enough. Why anybody would even think about doing things in such an unethical way as 'flameworker' mentions is completely beyond me, let alone (a) admitting to having actually done it and (b) suggesting it to others as a possible approach. For shame!

I hope that 'flameworker' at least had the decency to pay the guy the $100 he clearly owed him for his time - it's the least he could have done!

 

[David Jayne]

Given that no matter how well you and they plan things out, it will take twice as long as you think it will. Off the top of my head? Ten large.

 

[two fingers]

I would imagine that the "product" (should they decide to market it) would be the FILE with which someone could print his own guitar rather than a finished guitar/bass itself.

The whole 3D printing revolution will be about making things at your own home/office. It will not be geared towards buying things other people printed for the most part. (I have nothing to base that opinion on other than a gut feeling.) Sure, this company theoretically could produce them. But reading the OP a couple of times leads me to believe they have no interest in that whatsoever. It will either be about marketing the printers (and "stuff" that goes along with them) or the files and/or programming that allows one to make use of the aforementioned printers.

So, yeah, I would try to get in on the rights on the back end.

 

[Jonny5bass]

Suraj is back! Suraj is back!

 

[suraj]

Cool!

I would keep in mind that this is a possible future for this company and you're going to be helping them tremendously, so don't undercut yourself on the quote. Businesses are able to pay much more than a client who wants a custom guitar. Give yourself a good hourly amount and estimate how many hours you think will go into it, hardware costs, tool costs, tape, glue, whatever. It sounds like you'll basically be doing design, consulting, purchasing, engineering, and lutherie all at the same time, so think about that.

How much? I don't know.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Also, congrats!!

Hi Lisa, thank you for your response and insight. It seems the way you mentioned is the right way to go forward. I will just have to figure a charge per hour for each of the different things i plan to do.

I agree with Lisa on the pricing along with everything else she says (of course! ). You can't undercut others...but it's also a project you don't want to let slip away, as it's potentially very cool for you in the long term. As an architect, why not simply quote your normal rates for R&D and building time? Estimate the number of hours involved and it should be a pretty decent fee.

I was going to write something like "Are you sure you really want to take this on, given that you say you have never done something like this before?", but then I went and looked at your work in the other thread.

Wow! Unlike so many who have only made one instrument and suddenly and unrealistically want to turn pro or take on a wildly ambitious next project, you clearly have the skills and mindset to do this...and do it brilliantly!

Im glad you went through my previous thread, hope you enjoyed my journey It is correct that I don't want to let this project slip away. I must strike a balance in my quotation.
I am an architect, but not the principal architect of the firm where I work. In this project id be the principal designer, so I guess Ill have to charge close to what my boss from work charges Even then, not only will I be the architect of this guitar project, I will also be the consultant involved, and the contractor (executor). So ill have to charge fees for these as well.

Quick question, if you do a solidbody, can you print the body with the drill holes for the ground wires?

Yes..! I will have to fit all the wiring channels and tunnel in my 3d file before I print the guitar body. Also it can be nice to make the wiring canals a part of the design..

3D printing, how cool. If you're taking orders I'll take a Ric 4001 from the 70's, thanks. When can I expect it? Have fun

Haha, I wouldn't mind 3d printing a rick for you, as long as your ok with a complex artistic 3d geometry within a rick shell.

Just don't forget other 3D printed guitars have a wooden core that the body's built around. I imagine if the whole thing is ABS plastic, the tone will be, well, crap. But if it's going to be a metal 3D print, that could be interesting...

Remember, with 3D printing, the sky's the limit.

Thank you for highlighting this. I too plan to use a wooden block, to which the neck(bolt on), bridge and pickups will be mounted. I will hide the block of wood within the design.

Sky is the limit with 3d printing, and I am here to explore different things I can do with this project. Although I won't be going down the route of printing the neck. I will be printing just the body and the neck will be bolt on. With the body, I am currently exploring design ! Its great fun..But at the end, I want it to at least have the profile of a guitar. The point is to advertise it to be a 3d printed guitar, so at least the profile should be that of a guitar.

Super cool project, hope to see this take off the ground! I would see what rate designers / engineers / draftsmen are typically paid in your country, and use that as a ball park, because that is essentially what you will be doing here, design and engineering.

That bass in the photo you posted would be great for Karnivool's Set Fire to the Hive lol.

Haha I love Karnivool..! Also thanks for your input.

In building a printed instrument, my only worry would be stability of the neck: I would probably think about a neck-through design, so that the bridge is on the same wooden block as the neck and no stress is applied to the plastic material. The wooden part inside the body wouldn't have to be visible (I suspect the bass in the OP is built like that).

I will be going for a bolt on design. The neck will be a regular wooden neck that I will buy. But yes, I will consider using a wooden block to mount all the hardware and strings to. After my structural test with a test print, if the plastic is strong enough to hold the string tension, I might just keep it that way.

I am not trying to make a guitar with the best tone. Its more important for it to look unusual and cool. it won't sound bad for sure.

BUT, HOW MUCH DO I CHARGE..!!??

Get yourself 3-5 timecards. Track all of you time spent researching, designing, building prototypes, etc. Just jot it down on the cards as you go.

I would say probably $2500, but that is just a number that popped in my head, probably much more, so 1500-10,000? How big is the company.



There is a trick I used to do for situations like this, pretend you are the company that is contracing you, put up an add and interview a few people. Have them give you Quotes.

It's a slimeball move I know, But i have done it, I had to design a catalog and I had no Idea what to charge for hiring models, ohtographer, copy writer and such, so i inquired with other freelancers to get an idea. One guy got really pissed off when he figured out what I did and invoiced me $100 for his time. Harrased me for a long time...I'm tired, very tired, that is probably bad advice, But i wanted to help.

The company is quite bit. Really big to be honest.

I think your trick is not the best way to go froward though. The person you pissed off could have been you..!!

Sound is not organic. It is mechanical vibration. Nothing more.

Nice to see you here hammerhead. I can't help but agree with your statement.

How much to charge?

A lot. Plus, have rights to a share of sales.

I doubt the company is planning to produce and sell these guitar, but I will be copyrighting my design to protect it from getting mass produced.

The company does not appear to have any plans to start serial production of guitars though, unless I missunderstood tho OP. They are making a one-off as a PR stunt to show people how cool 3D printing is in general.

That is correct. I should have made my original post more clear on this.

Consult an attorney who specializes in intellectual properties but keep that to yourself at first because it's a great opportunity and you don't want to scare the company away congratulations and we are all looking forward to your design.

I am actually considering consulting an attorney to draft a contract between me and the company.

Suraj is back! Suraj is back!

Haha i couldn't be more flattered Nice to see you here..

 

[suraj]

Thank you so much guys for all your responses. Certain things I'd like to clarify,

The company does not intent to produce and sell these guitars. They are looking to use it just for promotions.
Also my design is something I will copyright, so that if they do decide to sell these guitars, they will need my permission and I would charge them per piece.

The guitar I intend to make will be a 3d printed body, with a bolt on wooden neck. Maybe a block of wood in the body to give it more strength and better sound characteristics, but I would prefer to keep it just 3d printed Nylon and strengthen that to be able to take string tension well without any wood in the body. That will allow for more flexibility in design.

Painting of the 3d printed body will be outsourced. Id like to have a rusted metal finish on the body.

From everything I've read here, I guess i shall be looking at 20$/ hour as a fee, be it design, modelling or assembling. I suppose I will take about 300 hours? so I guess 6000$ ? plus cost of parts.

Also since I would not like to scare them off, I would probably put up low resolution concept design options for the guitar to entice them with what may come out of the project. These guys mentioned casually that they'd be interested to more instruments like flutes or banjos, so I guess I must also develop a relation with them and give them some leverage for giving me the opportunity to experiment at their cost..!! What I want at the end is that If i need something from their 3d printing technology in the future, they should welcome me with some sort of special discount.

 

[suraj]

just to give you guys an idea of whats floating in my head..these are my concept designs. Sorry for the poor resolution, but its sensible to protect my work to an extent..

 

[ICM]

Especially with modern modeling technology, you could shape the tone even more.