T.C.Electronic is dead to me. I now boycott them.

[Eublet]

I guess the problem, in this instance is that, again, based on your own quote, your language in "the heat of anger had some hyperbole". How am I to know how much of what you describe as transpiring between TCE and yourself was actually what was said and done vs hyperbole added for effect or because of anger? It becomes a difficult judgement when the person presenting the facts of the situation admits to having their descriptions coloured by anger. This is why, as I have already posted, I would want to hear both sides of a dispute before making judgement. I find it hard to believe that TCE have a great excuse for some of the allegations you have made. However, I would like to hear their take on this before passing the "permaban" on their products. As I said, I have no problem with you deciding to boycott them based on whatever you experienced. Whether what you experienced matches up with what TCE feel happened...that's the bit I am waiting for before making up my own mind.

Well, with all due respect to Bongo and the tremendous time and effort he has put into the reviews on his website (many of which I've ready), but that's the difference between what Bongo does and what a professional reviewer must do. You have to maintain some separation between the product, the company and especially the personal involvement of the reviewer with the two. State the facts of the product, along with any problems or issues that may arise during the review, and offer an educated opinion on the results of the product in use. Vendettas (justified or not) or even the appearance of slander is not even remotely appropriate.

All in all, I think Bongo's reporting on this event is okay. There's too much detail in it to be considered what I am referring to above, reporting a person's names and relaying transcripts of discussions. Much less the reviewer actually reporting his anger and desire to make the experience known. You'd never find such thing in a professional publication. Of course this type of review will have more meritt for some since they appreciate the additional info. That's all cool too I suppose. If there were a couple dozen of these reviews happening right now, I might be more inclined to accuse TCE of the same things Bongo is. It still just seems like a single, isolated incident to me, with a bunch of people picking a side that is easiest for them.

 

[stflbn]

Dude, that is so immature, inappropriate, and illogical that it is obvious you have nothing to add to this discussion. Please go to Wikipedia and look up "logical fallacy".

All posts deleted.

However, you do not control who posts what here on Talkbass, and you definitely do not control what TC or other companies decide is appropriate to market and sell.

 

[Marlat]

I don't think anyone is saying they won't buy TCE products because of this one report.

I got to page 5 then got bored....

Yea you have a whole site of potential customers here who would most likely be willing to boycott on Bongo's word.

I concur with the two posts above me. You have a fairly wide base of potential customers to be found here, and if you would like us to believe that anything you sell is worth our money from this point forward, you will need to provide us (yes, in the public sense) with very clear answers to the situation detailed in the OP. No doubt you are already VERY well aware of the perils of neglecting your customer service department.

I'm glad I saw this thread!
Although I have no interest in their effects, one of their audio interface products
had made my short list of potential purchases.

I was considering buying the Nova Dynamics but I'm not so sure now

I really like the idea of their new RH450 combo. But that is now written off.

 

[Eublet]

It seems to me they've been coming out with a lot of cool looking stuff lately but that quality control and customer service haven't been keeping up with their aggressive marketing.

Based off how many reports? That's a pretty big conclusion right there. We have multiple threads here on TB that reflect the exact opposite of what you are saying. Where is this cumulative scale tipping that supports your comment?

 

[PhatBasstard]

I would expect you to search deeper and try to figure out why the pedal doesn't seem to be doing what the manufacturer says it should be doing....

Um...uh.....that's what he was trying to do.

 

[Eublet]

Um...uh.....that's what he was trying to do.

Quoting me doesn't work when you cut off half the sentence to make a point. There are other things in my comments besides half a sentence. Again, he is not entitled to a response even if it is what he was trying to do.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Well, with all due respect to Bongo and the tremendous time and effort he has put into the reviews on his website (many of which I've ready), but that's the difference between what Bongo does and what a professional reviewer must do. You have to maintain some separation between the product, the company and especially the personal involvement of the reviewer with the two. State the facts of the product, along with any problems or issues that may arise during the review, and offer an educated opinion on the results of the product in use. Vendettas (justified or not) or even the appearance of slander is not even remotely appropriate.

All in all, I think Bongo's reporting on this event is okay. There's too much detail in it to be considered what I am referring to above, reporting a person's names and relaying transcripts of discussions. Much less the reviewer actually reporting his anger and desire to make the experience known. You'd never find such thing in a professional publication. Of course this type of review will have more meritt for some since they appreciate the additional info. That's all cool too I suppose. If there were a couple dozen of these reviews happening right now, I might be more inclined to accuse TCE of the same things Bongo is. It still just seems like a single, isolated incident to me, with a bunch of people picking a side that is easiest for them.

If "professional reviewers" had to pay for the things they were reviewing, you might see a few more "professional" reviews likened to Bongo's.

 

[bongomania]

...at the same time, the company is under no requirement to provide you with the level of detail you are asking for. That level of detail isn't part of the CS equation IMHO. I think that it was a perfectly reasonable response for them to say "sorry you aren't happy and feel the pedal doesn't satisfy you. Please return it to your dealer." It seems that response didn't come soon enough or kindly enough in this case to say the least.

I hear what you're saying, and I "get it" from the perspective of how business is often normally performed. So that emphasizes and "begs" the discussion of "what is part of the CS equation". Maybe I'm just spoiled by the dozens of companies for whom that level of interaction is considered part of the CS equation. Those instances have given me the impression that it is reasonable to ask to speak to an engineer or product manager who knows something about the product. But again, I fully understand that in the McWorld we live in, customers are expected to like it or lump it, end of story.

Regarding "vendetta", that too is hyperbole--after all, did Eric do anything to me previously? What about his manager, was I predisposed to hate his manager? If you suppose the answer is yes, then why am I saying positive and reasonable things about Uffe so far?

 

[PhatBasstard]

Quoting me doesn't work when you cut off half the sentence to make a point. There are other things in my comments besides half a sentence. Again, he is not entitled to a response even if it is what he was trying to do.

And how did "the rest of the sentence" clarify the sentiment?

I would expect you to search deeper and try to figure out why the pedal doesn't seem to be doing what the manufacturer says it should be doing, or why you don't percieve it, or whatever.

Answer: Because the last part added nothing other than to question Bongo's understanding of how a compressor works.
Um...yeah....

 

[bongomania]

All posts deleted.

However, you do not control who posts what here on Talkbass

Again, obviously immature. And also totally ignoring the two or three posts I made specifically approving of people who disagree with me in a mature and sensible way. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me--so the only people whose posts I'd "control" are those who can't do it like an adult.

 

[Marlat]

But again, I fully understand that in the McWorld we live in, customers are expected to like it or lump it, end of story.

If I am reading the situation correctly, the "lump it" part was you being able to return the pedal to the dealer you bought it off with a full refund and perhaps, noting we just don't know, the ability to raise your queries through the dealer which seems to be the channel which TCE have set up for such things. That hardly seems unreasonable as a solution, even if its not the one you want. I will say again that the manner that this was presented to you seems horrendous, but I can't really see where the option you were given was unreasonable.

 

[bongomania]

If "professional reviewers" had to pay for the things they were reviewing, you might see a few more "professional" reviews likened to Bongo's.

Too true. Out of the hundred or so pedals I've reviewed, about six were sent to me at no cost, and of the others that I bought out of pocket, I had to re-buy about ten of them for comparison. It definitely increases my frustration if on the one hand I hold myself responsible for balanced reporting, and OTOH I have to pay double to find out whether what I'm hearing is what the average consumer can expect to hear.

 

[MR PC]

All posts deleted.

However, you do not control who posts what here on Talkbass, and you definitely do not control what TC or other companies decide is appropriate to market and sell.

Neither do you.

TC CS has always been bad. IMO.

The remedy for this (chuck the old one and purchase a new one) hasn't seem to change since the '80's and '90's, when it was well known that their product design was innovative/ excellent, but CS was severely lacking, at least in North America.

I'm still using some of the old pedals. I wouldn't bother with anything new from them, as these days there are so many other great products to choose from.

It's a cryin' shame, because TC was the first to offer studio quality stomp boxes with a large marketing plan.

 

[PhatBasstard]

...the ability to raise your queries through the dealer which seems to be the channel which TCE have set up for such things.

I don't know how things work across the pond (I have a brother in law living in London, but that's about it), but this is not reality at all. Most music retail owners, dealers, floor people, etc. know nothing or next to nothing about the inner (and often outer) workings of the items they sell. Especially advanced electronics issues.

 

[Marlat]

Too true. Out of the hundred or so pedals I've reviewed, about six were sent to me at no cost, and of the others that I bought out of pocket, I had to re-buy about ten of them for comparison. It definitely increases my frustration if on the one hand I hold myself responsible for balanced reporting, and OTOH I have to pay double to find out whether what I'm hearing is what the average consumer can expect to hear.

Perhaps the answer lies in aligning yourself with something like Bowlus's BassGear mag and offering your reviews through the magazine using their objective testing (or some other way of getting "journalist accreditation" in the eyes of the manufacturers that will enable you to get the gear on loan and access to engineers. I appreciate this probably started as a hobby, but maybe there's scope to move it to a slightly more professional level (at least in the eyes of the manufacturers). At the time you were speaking with TCE's Eric, did you let him know that you were reviewing it for your online website which reviews compressors? Not that it should make a difference, but sometimes a "do you know who I am?" can help with CS!

 

[PhatBasstard]

Too true. Out of the hundred or so pedals I've reviewed, about six were sent to me at no cost, and of the others that I bought out of pocket, I had to re-buy about ten of them for comparison. It definitely increases my frustration if on the one hand I hold myself responsible for balanced reporting, and OTOH I have to pay double to find out whether what I'm hearing is what the average consumer can expect to hear.

And don't think your efforts go unnoticed or unappreciated.

 

[Marlat]

I don't know how things work across the pond (I have a brother in law living in London, but that's about it), but this is not reality at all. Most music retail owners, dealers, floor people, etc. know nothing or next to nothing about the inner (and often outer) workings of the items they sell. Especially advanced electronics issues.

Only one question really matters though: Is this the method that TCE chose to use?

Even ifs its a completely unique product delivery method (which I doubt), if that's the one that TCE choose to use, thats the one you get when you buy their products. Trying to insist that they should do something else seems like a waste of time.

 

[bongomania]

Not that it should make a difference, but sometimes a "do you know who I am?" can help with CS!

While you're quite right, I prefer to think of myself like the restaurant critic who shows up unannounced and anonymous. In fact that is one aspect that could potentially color my reviews of those pedals that I did not pay for out of pocket--in those cases, obviously the manufacturer knew who I was, so their treatment of me might be above average. Who knows.

 

[PhatBasstard]

I was already kinda wary of TCE because when their pedals break, they are nearly impossible to fix, and they charge a very high price for repairs. And every one of their pedals that I've owned has broken, or some function does not work.

I bought one of their reissues of the Sustain+Parametric EQ, because I liked the tone of the original so much. The new pedal was so ridiculously bad, not just "meh" but so functionally bad to the point of unusable, that I figured it must be defective. I returned it to the retailer, and they sent me a new one--and it behaves identically to the first one. I decided to contact TCE and find out what the deal is, is it a known problem with this pedal, can I exchange it with them directly, can they explain to me what went wrong, anything at all.

Turns out there is no phone number or direct email on the service page on their website--only an "interactive support" field kind of like "chat". I posted my query as clearly as possible. A week goes by, no response, so I post again. This time "Eric" responds, saying he is not familiar with this pedal eyebrow:?) and that he knows nothing about it, and that he will ask the guys in Denmark. Two more weeks go by, so I post again asking for an update. The same day Eric replies "I just heard back from them. They are not familiar with this pedal, or how it is supposed to work". I $### you not. I'm not exaggerating. Both the US and Denmark "customer service" departments know nothing about this pedal or how it is supposed to work.

Eric did however say it was not their problem, and that I should just return the pedal to the retailer for a refund. I asserted that that was an unacceptable answer; that the retailer was not at fault for having bought these bad products on good faith from TCE; and that it was TCE's responsibility to make it right. Eric again replies that there is nothing to worry about, it is not their problem, and I should just send the pedal back to the retailer.

I asked him for his full name and office contact info so I could give that information to the retailer, so they can check up and confirm what I'm saying--Eric refused to give that information, saying only that the retailer could contact TCE customer service through their normal sales channels.

I urge everybody to re-read this and digest it. Nothing Bongo did on his end was unreasonable by any stretch. Wish I could say the same for TCE.

I can understand Eric not wanting to give his last name, but that's it. Nothing else here on TCE's part is can be defended at all.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Only one question really matters though: Is this the method that TCE chose to use?

Even ifs its a completely unique product delivery method (which I doubt), if that's the one that TCE choose to use, thats the one you get when you buy their products. Trying to insist that they should do something else seems like a waste of time.

Ahhh, but they didn't. Hence the "Interactive Support" field on their site. Why bother if it's a "just return it" policy?