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TecAmp S212/Puma500 Ultra Light Rig

#201
KJung said:
Glenn also mentioned that the TecAmp guys feel the 4ohm versions of the s212 are a little darker than the 8ohm. If that's the case, I'm glad I got the 4, because mine is anything but dark!!!!
Click to expand...

Pretty much any 2-way (or 3-way) enclosure/combo that is available in both 4 and 8-ohm configurations is going to sound a little 'darker' in the 4-ohm configuration, since pretty much 100% of the time, only the main drivers change and they use the same tweeter/midrange drivers. So the main drivers are more powerful in relation to the tweeters/mids in the 4-ohm configuration.

This has been pretty much what every manufacturer has told me to expect, and for cabs where I have heard both 4-ohm and 8-ohm versions, it seems to bear out in practice, though I'd say it's a fairly subtle sonic difference (you do hear the volume difference), and with many designs, you can crank the tweeter/mid attenuator (or try a different setting on the TecAmp) if you want to make the 4-ohm model have similar balance to the 8-ohm model.
 
#202
speyer said:
Also, Glenn mentioned the combo and new s212 use a 4" driver crossed over a bit lower (versus the old bullet tweeter) in the newly designed cabs. Apparently, this is a good thing and that's one of the reasons the new cabs sound a bit darker.
Click to expand...

That, of course, would be a whole different thang than what I just talked about, above. :smug:

I can't wait to hear the new cabs! :bassist:
 
#205
tombowlus said:
Pretty much any 2-way (or 3-way) enclosure/combo that is available in both 4 and 8-ohm configurations is going to sound a little 'darker' in the 4-ohm configuration, since pretty much 100% of the time, only the main drivers change and they use the same tweeter/midrange drivers. So the main drivers are more powerful in relation to the tweeters/mids in the 4-ohm configuration.

This has been pretty much what every manufacturer has told me to expect, and for cabs where I have heard both 4-ohm and 8-ohm versions, it seems to bear out in practice, though I'd say it's a fairly subtle sonic difference (you do hear the volume difference), and with many designs, you can crank the tweeter/mid attenuator (or try a different setting on the TecAmp) if you want to make the 4-ohm model have similar balance to the 8-ohm model.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense...a volume/SPL woofer/tweeter ratio versus some sort of 'different tone to the woofers'. I really never had that dynamic particularly clear in my mind.

Since most tweeter circuits put out huge SPL (i.e., most run the tweeters in their cabs far below the maximum level possible), this has never been an issue for me.
 
#207
And yeah, I would very much expect paper cone tweeters to sound different; very much softer and sweeter...depending what they are, where they're crossed, they can still have a looot of top end content.
 
#208
tombowlus said:
Pretty much any 2-way (or 3-way) enclosure/combo that is available in both 4 and 8-ohm configurations is going to sound a little 'darker' in the 4-ohm configuration, since pretty much 100% of the time, only the main drivers change and they use the same tweeter/midrange drivers. So the main drivers are more powerful in relation to the tweeters/mids in the 4-ohm configuration.

This has been pretty much what every manufacturer has told me to expect, and for cabs where I have heard both 4-ohm and 8-ohm versions, it seems to bear out in practice, though I'd say it's a fairly subtle sonic difference (you do hear the volume difference), and with many designs, you can crank the tweeter/mid attenuator (or try a different setting on the TecAmp) if you want to make the 4-ohm model have similar balance to the 8-ohm model.
Click to expand...


This sounds logical, but what I would have thought they would do in an effort to keep the freq. response as close to the same as possible (with the HF control on the cab set to flat), would be to pad the tweeter a bit more on the 8 ohm version than on the 4 ohm version.
 
#209
lo-freq said:
This sounds logical, but what I would have thought they would do in an effort to keep the freq. response as close to the same as possible (with the HF control on the cab set to flat), would be to pad the tweeter a bit more on the 8 ohm version than on the 4 ohm version.
Click to expand...

Since the 'flat' or 'noon' setting of most attenuators is anything but flat, most just use their ears to set the tweeter balance, depending on the sound they want. So, I would not think this would be worth the trouble and cost. If you need a touch more sparkle, just use a little less attenuation. Most tweeter attenuators seem to have their useful range between the 9 o'clock and 1 o'clock setting (with most of the two way cabs I've heard/owned). So, that leaves just a TON of adjustment room to either dial in stupid amounts of upper treble, or to tame the tweeter down to just providing a hint of upper treble extension.

Most tweeters set to the 'flat' setting or 'noon' setting would be much too loud (8 or 4ohm) for most users IMO and IME, so kind of a moot point.
 
#211
KJung said:
Since the 'flat' or 'noon' setting of most attenuators is anything but flat, most just use their ears to set the tweeter balance, depending on the sound they want. So, I would not think this would be worth the trouble and cost. If you need a touch more sparkle, just use a little less attenuation. Most tweeter attenuators seem to have their useful range between the 9 o'clock and 1 o'clock setting (with most of the two way cabs I've heard/owned). So, that leaves just a TON of adjustment room to either dial in stupid amounts of upper treble, or to tame the tweeter down to just providing a hint of upper treble extension.
Click to expand...

+1 :cool:
 
#212
speyer said:
Ok just talked with Glenn at austin bass traders, here's the deal...

ALL the Tecamp combo's are 8ohms just as suspected, BUT the 212 combo CAN be ordered in 4ohms for standalone use without an extension!

Thomas Eich (through Glenn) says that the he understands the need for players wanting the 212 combo in a 4ohm configuration, which is why they offer on special orders. And also that the 4ohm combo will apparently sound deeper/punchier and a bit darker than it's 8ohm counterpart... and of course will be louder. :D
Click to expand...


I'm so excited now! Sweet! :hyper:
 
#215
I spoke with Glenn today about the 500/S212 and combo and differences between them.

For one thing, I didn't realize that the combo doesn't have the cool tweeter attenuator that the S212 cab has. Bummer...

And for clarity's sake, he told me that while the S212 has a 'real' tweeter "with a sweeter top end," the combo tweeter is the 4" version with a lower crossover point and less sweet top end in comparison, again with no tweeter attenuator.

And the difference in price between the two setups is a couple of hundred bucks, with the separate components being the larger of the two, of course (then the added price of the optional rack bag for the separate head).

Just some things to consider. Also, he says the actual volume between the 8 ohm combo and the 4 ohm is about a 1 to 1 1/2 db difference at most and you can only really tell when you a/b the two side by side. But the 4 ohm version, while sounding darker, will not be as even as intended by design since the two 112 speakers will be overpowering the little 4" guy.

Another note: Glenn also mentioned that Thomas Eich, the designer, really recommends going with the 8 ohm combo over the 4, for what that's worth.
 
#220
Scott McArron said:
I spoke with Glenn today about the 500/S212 and combo and differences between them.

For one thing, I didn't realize that the combo doesn't have the cool tweeter attenuator that the S212 cab has. Bummer...

And for clarity's sake, he told me that while the S212 has a 'real' tweeter "with a sweeter top end," the combo tweeter is the 4" version with a lower crossover point and less sweet top end in comparison, again with no tweeter attenuator.

And the difference in price between the two setups is a couple of hundred bucks, with the separate components being the larger of the two, of course (then the added price of the optional rack bag for the separate head).

Just some things to consider. Also, he says the actual volume between the 8 ohm combo and the 4 ohm is about a 1 to 1 1/2 db difference at most and you can only really tell when you a/b the two side by side. But the 4 ohm version, while sounding darker, will not be as even as intended by design since the two 112 speakers will be overpowering the little 4" guy.

Another note: Glenn also mentioned that Thomas Eich, the designer, really recommends going with the 8 ohm combo over the 4, for what that's worth.
Click to expand...

I erased my original response. I just talked to Glenn to make sure I understand the above.

OK, I'm a happy camper now. I LOVE the tweeter and that crossover/attenuator design, and like you post, that is going to stay in the stand alone s212. The only change to the s212 is larger rear ports for a bit more low end extension. WONDERFUL!

With the combo212, that's quite a different cab. I now understand whey they recommend the 8ohm version, since the increased volume from the 4ohm woofers (as Tom pointed out) will throw off the volume ratio between the non-adjustable 4" mid driver and the woofers, resulting in a bit of a darker tone (I'm sure it's subtle).

So, I will be getting the revised s212, which is the same tweeter design as the original, with a bit more low end.:bassist:
 

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