Tech 21 lost their minds?

[AndyLES]

I'm terrible at math, so if I'm wrong, please help me out. But here goes:

Matrix power amp (perhaps the only lightweight power amp on the market that is more or less equivalent to that of the dUg) -
$600 - $1149, depending on model

Tech 21 RBI (for clean) and RPM (for dirt) - $329 x 2 = $658

Rack compressor - DBX 1066 (perhaps the most common model, for argument's sake) = $429

Mixer/blend unit (cheapest, high quality unit that's commercially available) = Radial Bigshot mix, $139

Total (provided you buy everything new; the gear I listed does have, by all accounts, strong resale value - thus, used prices won't be SIGNIFICANTLY lower, I don't think):
$1826 - $2375 and that's in a rig LARGER than two rackspaces, with additional cabling (i.e., possible failure points).

Of course, there are cheaper ways of trying to accomplish the same thing (buying used, using a heavier power amp, etc.) but there are tradeoffs...and you have to put it together yourself.

 

[sevdog]

Where the Landmark heads differed is you can put together an RBI and RPM with a good poweramp for less money than they sold for and get the Landmark's exact sound. You cannot create a dUg Ultra 1000 from existing gear Tech 21 makes.
So beyond the weight savings and rack spaces (which was all the Landmark heads had in their favor vs. an RBI+RPM system), the dUg also has unique features and tone among the Tech 21 line.

The Landmark also has the capability to blend the channels. I could be wrong but AFIK, you can't easily pull that off with just an RBI, RPM, and a power amp.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

You can't.

Nothing Tech 21 has now has HPF/LPF on it, and that's a key to the sound of this amp.

Several power amps on the market have it available. My cheap Behringer EP2000 that I used my Sansamp RPM pre on had one.

 

[silky smoove]

Several power amps on the market have it available. My cheap Behringer EP2000 that I used my Sansamp RPM pre on had one.

...and the compressor and the blend circuit? In a 2U package? With no need for additional cabling?

 

[BrBss]

Several power amps on the market have it available. My cheap Behringer EP2000 that I used my Sansamp RPM pre on had one.

You need a HPF and LPF before the preamps, not at the power amp.

 

[I am Soma]

I don't see a problem with the price and it looks/sounds freaking awesome. Wish I hadn't seen this as I have GAS now

 

[I am Soma]

I predict this will be Tech 21's best selling bass amp yet.

Agreed. Jane Doe.

 

[silky smoove]

You need a HPF and LPF before the preamps, not at the power amp.

+1

Filters at the power amp won't give you the combined dual channel tone goal of this amp. Nothing in their product line will do this, and if you go with separates you'll end up with more money spent, more weight, more size, more components, more cables, more case... More everything!

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...and the compressor and the blend circuit? In a 2U package? With no need for additional cabling?

Pedals would be my guess? My viewpoint would be using Tech 21 preamps in pedal form, not an RBI and RPM in a rack. I should probably have clarified that. Regardless, I don't personally feel that those features justify that price. If you do, great. I will spend my $1800 elsewhere.

You need a HPF and LPF before the preamps, not at the power amp.

Why would you need this other than to do it the same way as the head? Several people also make great pedals that do HPF/LPF. FDeck does IIRC. Features justifying the price would be arguable. If this is your amplification wet dream come true then more power to you. Like I said above, spend your $1800 however you like, I'll do the same.

 

[DwaynieAD]

can any thread on tb make it past the first page before people start ******** on the op?

 

[silky smoove]

Pedals would be my guess? My viewpoint would be using Tech 21 preamps in pedal form, not an RBI and RPM in a rack. I should probably have clarified that. Regardless, I don't personally feel that those features justify that price. If you do, great. I will spend my $1800 elsewhere.



Why would you need this other than to do it the same way as the head? Several people also make great pedals that do HPF/LPF. FDeck does IIRC. Features justifying the price would be arguable. If this is your amplification wet dream come true then more power to you. Like I said above, spend your $1800 however you like, I'll do the same.

You're making straw man arguments. The question isn't whether or not you need these specific features. The question is if the cost is justified. You can't eschew the cost by saying that those features aren't needed and expect to have any kind of discourse.

The fact remains that if you want to accomplish what this amp does in a comparable format, the cost will exceed the $1,800 that people are balking at, as well as it being larger, heavier, and having more components.

 

[andrew]

can any thread on tb make it past the first page before people start ******** on the op?

Extreme opinions are going to have opposing ones, can't expect different on a discussion forum. And no one is crapping on the OP, just disagreeing with him in a civil way.

 

[andrew]

Regardless, I don't personally feel that those features justify that price.

No need to feel it, the loose math is done for you in post #61.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...Regardless, I don't personally feel that those features justify that price.

You're making straw man arguments. The question isn't whether or not you need these specific features. The question is if the cost is justified. You can't eschew the cost by saying that those features aren't needed and expect to have any kind of discourse.

The fact remains that if you want to accomplish what this amp does in a comparable format, the cost will exceed the $1,800 that people are balking at, as well as it being larger, heavier, and having more components.

That part of my post seemed rather pointed, I am talking about whether the cost is justified. Value is subjective, but mediocre features in a package doesn't make it superior to another route to go. It's just being arbitrarily mandated that it has to be in a single box in order to be compared. Again, it's subjective so if you feel that the flexibility of those features in that head are useful then great, knock yourself out.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

No need to feel it, the loose math is done for you in post #61.

Please refer to post #74. A single knob compressor may not be what some people feel is enough parameters. YMMV.

 

[silky smoove]

That part of my post seemed rather pointed, I am talking about whether the cost is justified. Value is subjective, but mediocre features in a package doesn't make it superior to another route to go. It's just being arbitrarily mandated that it has to be in a single box in order to be compared. Again, it's subjective so if you feel that the flexibility of those features in that head are useful then great, knock yourself out.

The cost is justified, and has been explained several times over in this thread. Value is indeed subjective, but that's not what's being discussed here, and equates to another straw man.

As to the first straw man:

Pedals would be my guess? My viewpoint would be using Tech 21 preamps in pedal form, not an RBI and RPM in a rack.

Different form factors are not an apples to apples comparison.

As to the second straw man:

Why would you need this other than to do it the same way as the head? Several people also make great pedals that do HPF/LPF. FDeck does IIRC. Features justifying the price would be arguable. If this is your amplification wet dream come true then more power to you. Like I said above, spend your $1800 however you like, I'll do the same.

Assessing need isn't part of this discussion. Reemphasizing your point about a different form factor again still isn't apples to apples.

Bottom line: People are balking at the price. You couldn't build something comparable irrespective of the size, weight, and complexity aspects for less, or even the same amount of money.

 

[andrew]

I think people are confusing if the price is justifiable based on features, USA build, specialization, etc. with "would I pay $1800 to have that tone?".

I think the price is justifiable based on the points people made here but understandably most people won't pay $1800 to get that tone.

And I'm sure we all wish it was cheaper without changing how it's made or where, because having more money in your wallet is always nice.

 

[nutdog]

I would gladly pay $4000 for that amp.

If you will paypal me $4000 I'll gladly call tech21 and place the order for you.

 

[MDBass]

Pedals would be my guess? My viewpoint would be using Tech 21 preamps in pedal form, not an RBI and RPM in a rack. I should probably have clarified that. Regardless, I don't personally feel that those features justify that price. If you do, great. I will spend my $1800 elsewhere.



Why would you need this other than to do it the same way as the head? Several people also make great pedals that do HPF/LPF. FDeck does IIRC. Features justifying the price would be arguable. If this is your amplification wet dream come true then more power to you. Like I said above, spend your $1800 however you like, I'll do the same.

We get it, you won't be buying one

I don't personally feel that gas should cost much more than $1 per gallon, but according to the market it does...

If these features are what a consumer wants, the only way to build it is to make it significantly larger, ~5U, and STILL more expensive. The only way to build it cheaper is to totally change some of the parameters (leaving out the compressor, using pedals instead of the more fully featured rack units, etc.), and it will still be larger.

I won't be spending $1800 on it either, but that doesn't mean that it's priced incorrectly.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

The cost is justified

Obviously your opinion, but you also left this part out:

...Value is subjective, but mediocre features in a package doesn't make it superior...

Have we compared it to ONLY other one-knob compressors? Anything with more than that would cease to be apples-to-apples anyhow. People are stating that it's cheaper when comparing it to something with far more flexibility. One knob is not the same as an EBS multicomp.

As to the first straw man:

Different form factors are not an apples to apples comparison.

Please make sure every post where someone suggests a preamp instead of an amp, an Ibanez instead of a Fender, and, god forbid, a set of flats instead of a foam mute is remedied ASAP. We wouldn't want people thinking outside the box or leaving your parameters for appropriate discussion. Might want to PM the admins so they can expedite the process for you.

Bottom line is, it's very admirable that you are defending a product you believe in and believe everyone else should believe in or respect. I can also add to a forum post whatever I find relevant or related without your approval. If your highlight of the day is attempting to "put me in my place" then go right ahead and have fun. I'm bored at work and seeing you get worked up is definitely entertaining. I'm sure there is somebody out there suggesting a Darkglass pre instead of buying a new amp that is just crying for your attention