The Combo Club

[iagtrplyr]

Thanks @G-Dog I appreciate that. And much much respect to you.

Doggie is a class act and can also speak at least two languages that I know of.

Michael, I plan on replying to your last post as soon as I get to my Command Central post. I have a thought about your Aunt Peg idea.

 

[GwenOnBass]

M, you’re on a roll! Some super points made thus proving my point about the array of things to consider when making a purchase, especially for live gigging.

Your Elf rig idea is a great one, but why do I see you jamming to the blues with an Ampeg RB-115 in the future? Weird, huh?

I do enjoy a 15, and the Rocket 15 is way tasty in my book. What I'm (kind of) watching for are updates to the Ampeg PF amplifiers. Yet with the same virtual eyes I'm imagining an Orange Terror Bass and another PJB C4. Or ... or. Yeah. 15s are close to my heart not because they outperform something (it might, it might not, who knows), but ... the idea of a 15 that I can lift at 65 years. Unlike a certain Peavey of yore.

To me — and strictly speaking of the venues that are available to me here teetering between lockdown 1 and (possibly) lockdown 2 — two C4 cabs and 500 watts will carry every indoor gig I may find. Or not find. My real gig is Music Theory for the Bass Player. Weird how the best gig I could ever score rolled up to my front door, and my every musical need is served by a DI and a Webcam.

An Orange Terror Bass should serve up all the fatness I could ask for.

Another afterthought on HPFs ... The one-button HPF on my Sansamp is a very gentle slope at (if I recall correctly) 50 hz. That's enough to protect my speakers from overexcursion. What it doesn't do is help me tune my rig to the room. The Broughton is a variable HPF. Dead easy to use. There are many HPFs like it, but this one is mine

There's a great deal to be said for a 15 inch combo. Not writing one off. One of our TB members said PJB is a bit like Apple. A bit different, but once you understand it, you dig it .... Our friends over at the PJB thread assure us two C8s melts faces

but yeah I want a Rocket. Just not today.

 

[iagtrplyr]

I do enjoy a 15, and the Rocket 15 is way tasty in my book. What I'm (kind of) watching for are updates to the Ampeg PF amplifiers. Yet with the same virtual eyes I'm imagining an Orange Terror Bass and another PJB C4. Or ... or. Yeah. 15s are close to my heart not because they outperform something (it might, it might not, who knows), but ... the idea of a 15 that I can lift at 65 years. Unlike a certain Peavey of yore.

To me — and strictly speaking of the venues that are available to me here teetering between lockdown 1 and (possibly) lockdown 2 — two C4 cabs and 500 watts will carry every indoor gig I may find. Or not find. My real gig is Music Theory for the Bass Player. Weird how the best gig I could ever score rolled up to my front door, and my every musical need is served by a DI and a Webcam.

An Orange Terror Bass should serve up all the fatness I could ask for.

Another afterthought on HPFs ... The one-button HPF on my Sansamp is a very gentle slope at (if I recall correctly) 50 hz. That's enough to protect my speakers from overexcursion. What it doesn't do is help me tune my rig to the room. The Broughton is a variable HPF. Dead easy to use. There are many HPFs like it, but this one is mine

There's a great deal to be said for a 15 inch combo. Not writing one off. One of our TB members said PJB is a bit like Apple. A bit different, but once you understand it, you dig it .... Our friends over at the PJB thread assure us two C8s melts faces

but yeah I want a Rocket. Just not today.

Thinking out loud here...

An Orange Terror Bass amp on top of a Portaflex PF-115. Could be very nice and weight-wise, not bad at all. I think the cab clocks in around 45 lbs; the amp is around ten. Doable.

On the other hand, the RB-115 tips the scales in the low-mid thirties and maybe enough unless you're playing a coliseum. You could even add castors to it, I'm sure. Ahh, lots to choose from, but with your current setup, you may be done looking!

 

[GwenOnBass]

Thinking out loud here...

An Orange Terror Bass amp on top of a Portaflex PF-115. Could be very nice and weight-wise, not bad at all. I think the cab clocks in around 45 lbs; the amp is around ten. Doable.

On the other hand, the RB-115 tips the scales in the low-mid thirties and maybe enough unless you're playing a coliseum. You could even add castors to it, I'm sure. Ahh, lots to choose from, but with your current setup, you may be done looking!

Oh yes would be very happy with the Orange Terror Bass and a PF-115
that's a lot of sweetness right there.
.... kind of wondering if Yamaha will bring us a 500 watt 'Peg with a tube preamp
That would be worth the wait.

 

[LoveJackBruce]

HPF- I had no idea!!!!!

Speaker Efficiency
When the amplifier is not powering and driving unnecessary low frequencies, it can operate more efficiently. There will be more power for the actual frequencies that are for the music; and therefore, the amp will have more headroom, which will enable it to play louder. In some cases, you will see a twenty-five to fifty percent increase in volume when using a HPF. Again, this is something that you do not know that you are missing until the low frequencies are eliminated and you experience the results.

 

[iagtrplyr]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful response @iagtrplyr . It was very helpful and makes so much sense. Let me ask you guys what you would do with my dilemma.

I am not as experienced as most of you guys on the bass. Took my 1st acoustic guitar lesson in 1973 (12 years old) got my 1st bass a year later in 1974 (a Ventura P Bass copy) then started playing drums a year after that. In the last 48 years I have purchased 60 guitars and basses and played them the whole time. Just was not dedicated/obsessed with them (other than buying a whole lot of them lol) In bands I played drums. In my home studios (I’ve had one since 1984) I played guitars and basses to lay tracks down. But in bands I was on the drums.

3 years ago I had a devastating right arm injury, a distal bicep rupture, (look it up) while hanging from a gutter by one arm, ruining my wrist and shoulder in the process. No longer being able to play the drums after 45 years I threw myself in to the bass because of those injuries.

I have been playing bass 1-2 hours a day every day for 3 years now. I’m kicking myself for not playing the bass the last 50 years! It’s where I belonged all along.

So I have not gigged with a band as a bassist yet. It’s kinda cool to still have a cherry to pop at my age and I’m looking forward to it. I’m learning a lot from you pros and amateurs alike in this forum. I was in a band that was doing great but was a COVID victim.

I have an Ampeg 15” cab with that beautiful diamond tolex cover. I have a Markbass CMD 102p that is 300/500 and 2x10. I love the sound of 15s. I love big fat round sounds. That’s why I love my short scale American performer, it sounds big and round and fat and huge.

My dilemma. I have no issues with my Markbass but at 45 lbs and a larger awkward cab than some combos I’m moving on from it. Every pound counts. So I’ve been debating pulling the trigger on the Rocket Bass 115. At 34 lbs I would have my 15” that I love with 100 watts that should work for most gigs or rehearsal situations that I would do and if I had a bigger gig I could combine it with my 15” cab for two 15” cabs at 200 watts. (Apologies to G-Dog for not getting the Rumble :>) Im not sure the 200 watts through two 15s would be enough for an outdoor gig but that’s what a line out and PA are for in a big situation like that right?

Or do I go with the Rocket Bass 210 combo with 300/500 watt setup? At 39 lbs still 6 lbs lighter than the Markbass combo and a less awkward cab. More watts than I’ll ever need when combined with the 15” cab.

The goal being to have a versatile enough setup to do any size gig while saving this old body of mine from more punishment than is absolutely necessary. Btw I purchased and returned a GK 12” combo finding that it disappeared at 20’ so that’s out. It’s with a 15” combo or two 12s combo. Any thoughts folks? (Sorry for the long post)

You're welcome, Michael. This is what I love about this club. Someone's always around to offer an idea or answer a question. Your story was riveting, thanks for sharing. I think I know where your heart is heading and I don't think it's a bad plan at all. I'll give ya a couple of thoughts before you make a final decision.

First, you were disappointed in your GK and it obviously didn't cut it, but a single 12" speaker regardless of power amount will only get you so far out in the crowd. My RB-112 is most likely not going to be a gigging amp, but more of a studio recording or rehearsal amp. to me, that's what it was built for. Bigger bass than a ten, but still quite portable, similar to the GK MB112.

If you've been reading here for the past week you've seen our guy, Biggie, talking about getting into two groups while enjoying his retirement. He's a GK guy and has the MB212 combo. Yeah, it's pricey, but that thing brings it! I'm sure if he reads this he'll chime in. Again, it comes down to a power/speaker configuration ratio for what you want it to do.

Now on to your last post. RB-115 vs. RB-210. What a fun dilemma! Here we go...

For practice, rehearsals, and small to medium gigs, the RB-115 will give you that old-school Ampeg tone in spades. Yeah, you can add a second cabinet, and my guess is you have one of the Portaflex cabinets, most likely the 115. Here's the rub on that. The pair will hook up just fine and you'll have 200 watts to play with, but the Portaflex is not ported, meaning it may not be as loud as the Rocket Bass is. It should be close enough, but the RB is probably more efficient with one watt's energy. I know that many hope for speaker extension cabinets exclusively for the combo series that will be identical in specs. It may not matter, but I thought you should know this fact.

The other con is you'll have to move two cabinets to get the full output. That's more work during setup and breakdown. If you don't plan on playing large venues as Morrigan will be soon, then the 115 is fantastic. but if you think that outdoor or theater gigs may be your future, then I'd go with the 210. You begin with over twice the power and if you add your ext cab, you're looking at 500 watts and multiple speakers. It is more expensive, but your options are really expansive now. And it's not that much heavier than the 115!

This is where the ball goes back to your court which is where it should be. Decide what you need today, tomorrow, next month, and next year and choose your best option. Remember, you have a decent DI out of either combo and that'll go right to FOH. Surprisingly, you'll find it a valuable asset for smaller gigs or recording.

Let us know what you decide when you do. And if you have any other questions, let us help if we can.

 

[iagtrplyr]

HPF- I had no idea!!!!!

Speaker Efficiency
When the amplifier is not powering and driving unnecessary low frequencies, it can operate more efficiently. There will be more power for the actual frequencies that are for the music; and therefore, the amp will have more headroom, which will enable it to play louder. In some cases, you will see a twenty-five to fifty percent increase in volume when using a HPF. Again, this is something that you do not know that you are missing until the low frequencies are eliminated and you experience the results.

Speak it, LJB! My good buddy, Soul Reflection, got me into Broughton after hearing me whine about all the low-end boominess I get with some amps. I bought the HPF pedal and pretty much leave it on, tuning it anywhere from 40-75 Hz. If I'm recording, I usually skip the Broughton and use my Scarlett's EQ with both HPF and LPF options. I'm a believer!

 

[LoveJackBruce]

Speak it, LJB! My good buddy, Soul Reflection, got me into Broughton after hearing me whine about all the low-end boominess I get with some amps. I bought the HPF pedal and pretty much leave it on, tuning it anywhere from 40-75 Hz. If I'm recording, I usually skip the Broughton and use my Scarlett's EQ with both HPF and LPF options. I'm a believer!

So the Tech 21 Q-Strip would likely be a Great Investment. I've looked at the various sans amp pedals but this appears to be a much better investment. Thoughts anyone?

Oh, I just saw this pedal is great for my acoustic guitar also. 2 for 1.

 

[68Tele-Bass]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful response @iagtrplyr . It was very helpful and makes so much sense. Let me ask you guys what you would do with my dilemma.

I am not as experienced as most of you guys on the bass. Took my 1st acoustic guitar lesson in 1973 (12 years old) got my 1st bass a year later in 1974 (a Ventura P Bass copy) then started playing drums a year after that. In the last 48 years I have purchased 60 guitars and basses and played them the whole time. Just was not dedicated/obsessed with them (other than buying a whole lot of them lol) In bands I played drums. In my home studios (I’ve had one since 1984) I played guitars and basses to lay tracks down. But in bands I was on the drums.

3 years ago I had a devastating right arm injury, a distal bicep rupture, (look it up) while hanging from a gutter by one arm, ruining my wrist and shoulder in the process. No longer being able to play the drums after 45 years I threw myself in to the bass because of those injuries.

I have been playing bass 1-2 hours a day every day for 3 years now. I’m kicking myself for not playing the bass the last 50 years! It’s where I belonged all along.

So I have not gigged with a band as a bassist yet. It’s kinda cool to still have a cherry to pop at my age and I’m looking forward to it. I’m learning a lot from you pros and amateurs alike in this forum. I was in a band that was doing great but was a COVID victim.

I have an Ampeg 15” cab with that beautiful diamond tolex cover. I have a Markbass CMD 102p that is 300/500 and 2x10. I love the sound of 15s. I love big fat round sounds. That’s why I love my short scale American performer, it sounds big and round and fat and huge.

My dilemma. I have no issues with my Markbass but at 45 lbs and a larger awkward cab than some combos I’m moving on from it. Every pound counts. So I’ve been debating pulling the trigger on the Rocket Bass 115. At 34 lbs I would have my 15” that I love with 100 watts that should work for most gigs or rehearsal situations that I would do and if I had a bigger gig I could combine it with my 15” cab for two 15” cabs at 200 watts. (Apologies to G-Dog for not getting the Rumble :>) Im not sure the 200 watts through two 15s would be enough for an outdoor gig but that’s what a line out and PA are for in a big situation like that right?

Or do I go with the Rocket Bass 210 combo with 300/500 watt setup? At 39 lbs still 6 lbs lighter than the Markbass combo and a less awkward cab. More watts than I’ll ever need when combined with the 15” cab.

The goal being to have a versatile enough setup to do any size gig while saving this old body of mine from more punishment than is absolutely necessary. Btw I purchased and returned a GK 12” combo finding that it disappeared at 20’ so that’s out. It’s with a 15” combo or two 12s combo. Any thoughts folks? (Sorry for the long post)

Thanks for sharing! Glad your dive into the deep end is going well!!

I’ve got that RB-115. Should handle most situations I would end up in.

I’ve missed a 15 inch speaker since selling my Mesa Diesel 115 cab seven years ago to move out west. This really sounds great, and gets you that old-school tone Ampeg is known for.

For bigger situations, PA/FOH use DI out AND mic the thing! That would sound great!!

Orange OBC-112 400-watt 1x12" Bass Cabinet - Black. $529/ea

These cabs are only 26 pounds each. 400 watts RMS/ea. So quite easy to carry and 2 can handle a Rumble 800 head. If I was playing out I'd check these out.

Now I know you prefer the 15, and I love my R200 15 inch speaker. Fat and round. However, that extra 8 pounds for the R200 is quite a bit more to handle these days.

LJB- Love the bold and font!! THAT’s what the 15 sounds like!

 

[G-Dog]

.
All this recent talk about wattage, cone area and speaker efficiency can make a musician's head spin! Isn't there a simple guide to this stuff?

Why, sure there is! But, instead of "Everything You Need to Know ...", I'd entitle this one "A Beginner's Guide to ..."

Everything you need to know about bass amp watts, power and efficiency
.​

 

[Michael Favata]

Thank you to everyone for this invaluable input!

I’m going to look in to the Orange Terror a few people mentioned here. Orange has never been on my radar. That was what some guitar players used back in the day (or was that Sunn?) But if I were to pick up a just a head to match my back ported Ampeg 115 cab it may be the ampeg PF500 or the Rumble heads. But I don’t think I’m gonna go that route.

I’m also going to look at an HPF that @SoulReflection and others mentioned. That sounds really interesting. And makes sense. And that advice is from real world experience. I love this forum for exactly that kind of real world advice!

I think I’m going to pull the trigger on the RB115. I’ve been staring at it since before release. Let’s just say I’m a sucker for pretty 15s. I loved my 15” Hartke cab I had in the 90s. I loved my Traynor 400 W Mono block B I had in the 70s & 80s with the matching dual ported cab with back firing 18” (or was it 20”) speaker with two 8” speakers (or were they 6”) on the front baffle! But that rig weighed a million pounds!

I think the RB115 will be fine for me. It’s good to hear you @iagtrplyr like yours and others here too. At this point in my life I’m not expecting to be doing large gigs. Just small to medium bars. (Outdoor gigs would be direct in to a PA anyway and then my amp becomes a stage monitor for me right?) At 34 lbs I could carry the RB115 in one hand (my good hand) and have a backpack on my back with all that extra stuff (an HPF? Cables. Power conditioner etc.) and my bass in a gig bag in my bad hand. One trip! In and out!

Thanks for all the input guys! I’ll give you a review when I get the RB115. Appreciate all of you!

 

[GwenOnBass]

Thank you to everyone for this invaluable input!

I’m going to look in to the Orange Terror a few people mentioned here. Orange has never been on my radar. That was what some guitar players used back in the day (or was that Sunn?) But if I were to pick up a just a head to match my back ported Ampeg 115 cab it may be the ampeg PF500 or the Rumble heads. But I don’t think I’m gonna go that route.

I’m also going to look at an HPF that @SoulReflection and others mentioned. That sounds really interesting. And makes sense. And that advice is from real world experience. I love this forum for exactly that kind of real world advice!

I think I’m going to pull the trigger on the RB115. I’ve been staring at it since before release. Let’s just say I’m a sucker for pretty 15s. I loved my 15” Hartke cab I had in the 90s. I loved my Traynor 400 W Mono block B I had in the 70s & 80s with the matching dual ported cab with back firing 18” (or was it 20”) speaker with two 8” speakers (or were they 6”) on the front baffle! But that rig weighed a million pounds!

I think the RB115 will be fine for me. It’s good to hear you @iagtrplyr like yours and others here too. At this point in my life I’m not expecting to be doing large gigs. Just small to medium bars. (Outdoor gigs would be direct in to a PA anyway and then my amp becomes a stage monitor for me right?) At 34 lbs I could carry the RB115 in one hand (my good hand) and have a backpack on my back with all that extra stuff (an HPF? Cables. Power conditioner etc.) and my bass in a gig bag in my bad hand. One trip! In and out!

Thanks for all the input guys! I’ll give you a review when I get the RB115. Appreciate all of you!

Matching the same brand extension cab with a head or combo is always a sound decision.

Apples and Oranges: Orange has it's own distinct tonal signature, and no amount of scrubbing will remove that. That's good if you like that, not so good if you need clean. MarkBass, Phil Jones &c are regarded as "clean", AKA HiFi, "sterile" and such, depending on POV.

Here's the TB Wiki on HPFs High Pass and Low Pass Filters | TalkBass.com

 

[WestyBassBob]

Thank you to everyone for this invaluable input!

I’m going to look in to the Orange Terror a few people mentioned here. Orange has never been on my radar. That was what some guitar players used back in the day (or was that Sunn?) But if I were to pick up a just a head to match my back ported Ampeg 115 cab it may be the ampeg PF500 or the Rumble heads. But I don’t think I’m gonna go that route.

I’m also going to look at an HPF that @SoulReflection and others mentioned. That sounds really interesting. And makes sense. And that advice is from real world experience. I love this forum for exactly that kind of real world advice!

I think I’m going to pull the trigger on the RB115. I’ve been staring at it since before release. Let’s just say I’m a sucker for pretty 15s. I loved my 15” Hartke cab I had in the 90s. I loved my Traynor 400 W Mono block B I had in the 70s & 80s with the matching dual ported cab with back firing 18” (or was it 20”) speaker with two 8” speakers (or were they 6”) on the front baffle! But that rig weighed a million pounds!

I think the RB115 will be fine for me. It’s good to hear you @iagtrplyr like yours and others here too. At this point in my life I’m not expecting to be doing large gigs. Just small to medium bars. (Outdoor gigs would be direct in to a PA anyway and then my amp becomes a stage monitor for me right?) At 34 lbs I could carry the RB115 in one hand (my good hand) and have a backpack on my back with all that extra stuff (an HPF? Cables. Power conditioner etc.) and my bass in a gig bag in my bad hand. One trip! In and out!

Thanks for all the input guys! I’ll give you a review when I get the RB115. Appreciate all of you!

I’ve been intrigued by Orange since I first started bass as I am drawn to all things British especially rock. But their price points always put them out of the running for me. For example the price on their 25 watt bass combo is outrageous especially considering that there’s no shortage of choices in that category. That said. If you buy it I’m sure you’ll love it. Make sure you tell us all about it!

 

[Michael Favata]

I’ve been intrigued by Orange since I first started bass as I am drawn to all things British especially rock. But their price points always put them out of the running for me. For example the price on their 25 watt bass combo is outrageous especially considering that there’s no shortage of choices in that category. That said. If you buy it I’m sure you’ll love it. Make sure you tell us all about it!

To be clear I am going to look at the Orange but I’m going to buy the Ampeg RB115

 

[SoulReflection]

I’ve been intrigued by Orange since I first started bass as I am drawn to all things British especially rock. But their price points always put them out of the running for me. For example the price on their 25 watt bass combo is outrageous especially considering that there’s no shortage of choices in that category. That said. If you buy it I’m sure you’ll love it. Make sure you tell us all about it!

Look forward to following you on your journey....

 

[GwenOnBass]

So the Tech 21 Q-Strip would likely be a Great Investment. I've looked at the various sans amp pedals but this appears to be a much better investment. Thoughts anyone?

Oh, I just saw this pedal is great for my acoustic guitar also. 2 for 1.

The Q-Strip is a [strong word] great tool. OTH The Mesa Subway+ Bass DI Preamp is one of the few offerings with a variable HPF. A fixed HPF will protect your speakers (in theory, a dedicated dunderhead can absolutely blow speakers) but brings few other features to the table.

To my own surprise, I've become a Trace Elliot tone fangrrl. I'd have zero problem building a second compact pedalboard with the Trace Transit B and a Broughton HPF/LPF. It's just not a priority.

 

[LoveJackBruce]

Dang I like these. 2 daisy chained sh ould work for most gigs. And only 32 lbs.

.
All this recent talk about wattage, cone area and speaker efficiency can make a musician's head spin! Isn't there a simple guide to this stuff?

Why, sure there is! But, instead of "Everything You Need to Know ...", I'd entitle this one "A Beginner's Guide to ..."

Everything you need to know about bass amp watts, power and efficiency
.​

RMS stands for Root Mean Square. I didn't know. I though it was Real Mean Speakers output.

 

[SoulReflection]

RMS stands for Root Mean Square. I didn't know. I though it was Real Mean Speakers output.

I always thought it stood for "exaggerated wattage specs".

 

[LoveJackBruce]

The Q-Strip is a [strong word] great tool. OTH The Mesa Subway+ Bass DI Preamp is one of the few offerings with a variable HPF. A fixed HPF will protect your speakers (in theory, a dedicated dunderhead can absolutely blow speakers) but brings few other features to the table.

To my own surprise, I've become a Trace Elliot tone fangrrl. I'd have zero problem building a second compact pedalboard with the Trace Transit B and a Broughton HPF/LPF. It's just not a priority.

I do believe you have me sold on a Q Strip. I feel one arriving around Christmas. Smiles!!!

 

[G-Dog]

Dang I like these. 2 daisy chained should work for most gigs. And only 32 lbs. ... ...

Cool, Lovey! But I can't see your attachments. Just what is it you like to daisy chain?​

... ... RMS stands for Root Mean Square. I didn't know. I though it was Real Mean Speakers output.

RMS is "the square root of the arithmetic mean of the squares of a set of values, used as a measure of the typical magnitude of a set of numbers, regardless of their sign."

IKR? "Wah, wah, wah. Yada, yada, yada!" Ya gotta be some kinda rocket surgeon to unnerstan' all dat.​

I always thought it stood for "exaggerated wattage specs".

No, Souly. RMS is usually the lowest wattage numbers in specs ratings, since they's requirin' ax'ual 'rithmatick an' sign'tific stuff. "Continuous power", which some manufacturers use, is very similar to RMS and will do as a substitute. So, as a customer, that's the number you really want to see. That's the real nitty gritty, don't ya know.

Your EWS is short for "music power", "peak power", program power, "total power", "equivalent sound power", "thunderous power", "awesome power" and "earth-shaking power". Some of these are as little as twice the RMS rating, but others are four times the RMS, or more! And those manufacturers that don't specify any type of watts, but still advertise a wattage number are probably too ashamed to admit just which of these EWS numbers they are giving you!​

.