The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[Littlewing6283]

Oracle got sent it to get checked out so been playing around with my other stuff.

whenever we start gigging again this is going to be my rig most of the time

 

[rhyharmel]

I'm thinking instead of having eq in the DI I can just get an eq pedal. Probably a better eq than one on a DI?

You know, I was going this direction too. Get all your pedal ducks in a row and get a great DI to send it off to FOH and/or backline. And then I tried the Nordstrand Starlifter. It made me rethink my entire pedalboard order because of what it did as a great DI plus EQ. It's the anti-SansAmp, in the sense that it provides a clean yet tailored signal to FOH or to your amp if you'd rather not have something with an inherent baked-in tone as the last thing in your signal chain. If you want to add color to your tone (i.e. tubes, od, etc.) you can add that to your signal and the Starlifter will gladly accept it and in a way that allows the additional layers to shine through equally as well. I use the Starlifter with my Verellen Meatsmoke, and I get three awesome tone profiles that cover pretty much everything I play. I have my clean tone, my tube tone, and my tube overdriven tone. Just awesome.

Other cleanish pre/DIs I would put in a similar camp (great DI with flexible tone shaping) would be the Grace and Trickfish pedals. It's worth considering as an alternative to just having a "pure" DI like the RNDI at the end of your chain, although there's nothing wrong with that either.

EDIT: I would love to hear about how someone put their LA1A->Edison Night Owl->Oracle->Grace Alix on their board!

 

[rhyharmel]

EDIT: I would love to hear about how someone put their LA1A->Edison Night Owl->Oracle->Grace Alix on their board!

I forgot...you would need a loop switch for this to work to engage the Oracle in/out.

 

[uwrossl]

So I hit TubeDepot up about getting a Genalex Gold Lion and here was their response. Found it a helpful explanation and also is kind of making me think that I may have gotten a bad tube. I sent them a follow up question about that. Figured I'd share as others might find it interesting or have additional input.


Hey Ross, Good question!

Essentially, when a batch of tubes or resistors or capacitors are made there is a variance between the actual value of the components. Most resistors and caps will give you a percentage tolerance of which they can be up or down from the target value. For example, a 100 mf cap with a 10% tolerance can be anywhere from 90 to 110 mf and still be considered "good." In tubes, you have to measure them to see what the gain actually is and the "high gain option" are tubes that we have tested and found to operate at a higher level than the others in the batch. Luckily for you the Gold Lions have a very low tolerance on production, which means very little variance all test very similarly. Here we consider all gold lions to be "high gain"

Hope this helps!

Customer Service
TubeDepot.com
1-877-289-7994

 

[TheLopp]

all this talk of tubes might get me tube rolling.

I put a different tube in my SLO which was definitely a good for me. The process of getting that tube swapped was a pain. thats when I wish I had tiny hands.

I found an easy way to swap tubes in the SLO. I just took a piece of duct tape and folded it on the long side, so there's no adhesive. I use a tape that is kind of a rubbery feel on the outside. I wrapped it around the tube and pinched it, so that I have kind of a handle to wiggle it out.

The same way to get it back but I had to push on top of the tube as well to get it in place.

 

[MascisMan]

So I hit TubeDepot up about getting a Genalex Gold Lion and here was their response. Found it a helpful explanation and also is kind of making me think that I may have gotten a bad tube. I sent them a follow up question about that. Figured I'd share as others might find it interesting or have additional input.


Hey Ross, Good question!

Essentially, when a batch of tubes or resistors or capacitors are made there is a variance between the actual value of the components. Most resistors and caps will give you a percentage tolerance of which they can be up or down from the target value. For example, a 100 mf cap with a 10% tolerance can be anywhere from 90 to 110 mf and still be considered "good." In tubes, you have to measure them to see what the gain actually is and the "high gain option" are tubes that we have tested and found to operate at a higher level than the others in the batch. Luckily for you the Gold Lions have a very low tolerance on production, which means very little variance all test very similarly. Here we consider all gold lions to be "high gain"

Hope this helps!

Customer Service
TubeDepot.com
1-877-289-7994

So it sounds like there isn't much difference between a standard GL and a High Gain GL if the tolerance is so minimal.

Having said that, not sure that means your tube is "bad." It could just be that the JJ is higher gain than the GL in general. Or am I thinking the wrong way?

 

[scubaduba]

The Teegarden Fatboy could actually be powered via the 24VDC out on the Cioks DC7. I like the idea of that!

Since the Fatboy requires 24 volt AC and the 24 volt port on the CIOKS DC7 delivers DC the CIOKS would not be able to power the Fatboy.

 

[Rocksolid]

Since the Fatboy requires 24 volt AC and the 24 volt port on the CIOKS DC7 delivers DC the CIOKS would not be able to power the Fatboy.

Quite right. AC. apologies

 

[fivestringgecko]

I haven't gotten a tracking number yet. But if it's half as bass friendly as the PDR, I'll be sell off some OD pedals... did I really just say that?

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts once you get some time with it.

5sg.

 

[chadhargis]

Well, the LA-1A is loaded with fresh matched tubes and mounted to the board.

I have to say, I think I liked the FEA DE-CL better as it seemed to be a darker sounding compressor. The LA-1A is more transparent. Nothing I can't fix with EQ.

I still digging my baby board. Pound for pound, it's a beast. That Becos comp is amazing. Even in a mini pedal format it has a full meter on it. More than I can say for the LA-1A.

 

[BioDriver]

Talk me out of the Mesa Subway DI or explain why I shouldn't go the Subway-to-small-poweramp (Straight Ahead, Baby Sumo, etc) route. Note that I want small, transportable, and the ability to go ampless if needed.

 

[chadhargis]

Talk me out of the Mesa Subway DI or explain why I shouldn't go the Subway-to-small-poweramp (Straight Ahead, Baby Sumo, etc) route. Note that I want small, transportable, and the ability to go ampless if needed.

I haven't had the opportunity to play with the Subway yet. Too bad Summer NAMM was cancelled this year. It's held 30 minutes from my house and I usually get a chance to try lots of gear. Same with Sweetwater GearFest. It wasn't cancelled, but it was all virtual this year.

 

[uwrossl]

So it sounds like there isn't much difference between a standard GL and a High Gain GL if the tolerance is so minimal.

Having said that, not sure that means your tube is "bad." It could just be that the JJ is higher gain than the GL in general. Or am I thinking the wrong way?

Totally. Doesn't seem like there'd be enough difference to just swap for high gain.

I'm going to ask them about the gain difference between the JJ and the GL. That's partially what I'm thinking is contributing but there is also a break up to mine much earlier in the dial and it isn't necessarily the pleasant break up I associate with tubes. Almost seems to have a bit of hiss or noise to it. Considering the love this tube gets it just doesn't seem like I'm getting the full potential out of it. I'm going to swap it for another one to try.

I will say that Tube Depot has been very helpful and like the detailed answers they give. It's definitely helping me get a better grasp on terminology and function.

 

[chadhargis]

I will say that Tube Depot has been very helpful and like the detailed answers they give. It's definitely helping me get a better grasp on terminology and function.

They have always been good to me. I get the tubes fairly fast too as I am 180 miles from them. I've contemplated making a visit to the shop. I'd love to chat with them about the difference between a $20 Mullard, which has worked well for me...and a $259 tube.

 

[uwrossl]

They have always been good to me. I get the tubes fairly fast too as I am 180 miles from them. I've contemplated making a visit to the shop. I'd love to chat with them about the difference between a $20 Mullard, which has worked well for me...and a $259 tube.

Yep. They are great. And I'd love to listen in on that convo if you ever do get to have it with them!!!

 

[friend33]

They have always been good to me. I get the tubes fairly fast too as I am 180 miles from them. I've contemplated making a visit to the shop. I'd love to chat with them about the difference between a $20 Mullard, which has worked well for me...and a $259 tube.

The "difference" would mostly be in the relative craziness of the $20-spending you vs. the $259-spending you...(ignoring, for the moment, the evidence you've presented over the course of this thread ).

I'm a bit of a tube geek and have amassed a stash of a couple hundred or so over the years, rolled them through a number of different types of amps, have a couple of testers, etc. So I'm not immune to my own critique. (My Magic Amps Crossroads is fully loaded with '59/'60 Mullards, including a long-plate in v1, just 'cause I could...)

I'm not sure what Mullard preamp tube is selling for $259 (maybe an old box plate?), but I think the bang-for-buck on those types is most justified in the audiophile world. Not that they don't sound nice - if you have three Bentleys in the garage and think you could part with one to fund the habit, no reason you shouldn't - but that the dollar-per-nuance ratio gets very skewed when you reach the ionosphere. You can get nice ANOS i61 or i63 Mullards for $50 if you like the Mullard sound, and they will far outlast any new production tube (all things equal - any tube can choose to go at any time depending on what's rattling around in its glassy little head).

If you do start down that funhouse slide, a couple things to keep in mind:

• No specific "brand" is going to sound best in everything. Some can sound remarkably unimpressive in certain applications. The builder will generally have some preferences if they have dabbled and be able to steer you so you don't waste a ton of time and money.
• Some devices and amps reveal less distinction between tubes than others - tubes sound more the same than different. It's a waste to throw good money at these.
• Old Glass tubes were all made in a limited number of factories. Each factory's tubes were sold under many different stamped "brands". You'll save a lot of money if you look for the etched codes and not the flashy "label". (Any tube made in Blackburn is a Mullard, no matter what is written on it, for example.) The Tube Classics website is a great, trusty resource for this:

Tube Classics - Philips Audio Tubes

 

[Rocksolid]

My Orchid Electronics Micro Direct Inject arrived today. I'll get to use it next weekend with my LA-1A and Particle Accelerator in front of it.

I actually tried to find a bad review of it and couldn't. Googles it with words like hum, buzz, loss of Bass in the search bar etc etc.
Not expecting it to be an RNDI, Khan or anything, but how many tubes do you need on your pedal board? 4 is plenty me thinks...

Its pretty small!

 

[ThisYouCanTrust]

That Becos comp is amazing.

Ah, true, I still need to order me this.
I don't feel like I'm lacking anything since I got the zipper, but curiosity and, you know .. shiny LEDs

Anyway, I'm building a pedalboard and have a question for all of you : where would you put an EQ pedal ?

Right now I have wireless -> tuner -> comp -> preamp, so there are different possibilites :
- EQ before the comp, to make it compress more or less on some frequencies ? I didn't feel the need for this though.
- EQ before the preamp, to make it distort more or less on some frequencies ? Although I often play with a B7K and it is so not subtle that this seems a bit pointless.
- EQ at the very end ? The preamp loads IRs so that would only be for correcting room response I guess ? Although I have a cabzone on its way, so between the preamp and the cabzone would probable make the most sense I suppose ?

What do you guys think ?

 

[Rocksolid]

Ah, true, I still need to order me this.
I don't feel like I'm lacking anything since I got the zipper, but curiosity and, you know .. shiny LEDs

Anyway, I'm building a pedalboard and have a question for all of you : where would you put an EQ pedal ?

Right now I have wireless -> tuner -> comp -> preamp, so there are different possibilites :
- EQ before the comp, to make it compress more or less on some frequencies ? I didn't feel the need for this though.
- EQ before the preamp, to make it distort more or less on some frequencies ? Although I often play with a B7K and it is so not subtle that this seems a bit pointless.
- EQ at the very end ? The preamp loads IRs so that would only be for correcting room response I guess ? Although I have a cabzone on its way, so between the preamp and the cabzone would probable make the most sense I suppose ?

What do you guys think ?

Depends what you want it to do? I have an EQ early on my board to boost low output basses and shape their tone, to increase gain into an overdrive etc. My compressors generally aren't at a super high ratio, so boosting before my comp is still useful. I have a Preamp at the end of my chain with EQ ability so having one at the start is logical for me.

 

[CatOnTheBass]

My Orchid Electronics Micro Direct Inject arrived today. I'll get to use it next weekend with my LA-1A and Particle Accelerator in front of it.

I actually tried to find a bad review of it and couldn't. Googles it with words like hum, buzz, loss of Bass in the search bar etc etc.
Not expecting it to be an RNDI, Khan or anything, but how many tubes do you need on your pedal board? 4 is plenty me thinks...

Its pretty small!
View attachment 3935015

View attachment 3935016

Looks intriguing, but looks like there's no Thru so I can also send a signal to my amp?