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THE LOUDEST SPEAKER IN THE WORLD IS...

#61
billfitzmaurice said:
Overpowering. He's undoubtably pushing them well past xmax, and once you do that additional power added gets no more output, only more heat in the coils, and eventually they fail. Going past xmax with guitar drivers is business as usual, they're made with a very short xmax to allow them to do so with minimal input and therefore they don't need to be hit with more than 10 watts to breakup. Doing so with bass drivers will toast them unless the coil/motor assembly is robust enough to handle it. Most of us never push our drivers much past xmax, as the farting out serves as warning enough to back off the power. Someone playing with a highly distorted and/or compressed tone won't notice the farting out until the magic smoke and sounds of silence get their attention. Too late, of course.
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Thanks for the info Bill

I assumed that pushing the speakers beyond their mechanical limits would have manifested itself as cone creasing, or torn spiders and cones first. Did not think about the extra energy overheating the coil.
 
#62
Working on the assumption that you cant lose the keyboardist and she is too egotistical/deaf/stupid to care about the tone to turn down a little, I offer a few solutions.

Both involve a rig revamp but will result in something that will never be considered underpowered or not loud enough. Never, ever.

First, come upon your tonal goals via the bass and the processing, not the overdriving of drivers etc. use pedals and pre's to get the tones you like. It seems you have this already taken care of.

Next, buy a crest cA-9.

Third, search the TB classifieds, ebay, or cough up retail for a pair of schroeder 4x10's. They have a rep for being LOUD for size and rugged. It'll be a little more modular than an 8x10 fridge.

An option on #3, very different but likely as loud or more, is to hire someone to build you a pair of Dr280's and a pair of titan 48's that you can crossfire. Or build them yourself while you hang onto your current rig, all the while baiting your keyboardist with complaints about the volume war (which you will shortly thereafter win- forever)

Blast off.
 
#63
BillyRay said:
What you need is higher sensitivity overall.
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+1

And those Ampegs aren't gonna cut it. I'd recommend a higher sensitivity cabinet. Just ONE Aguilar GS212 has a higher sensitivity(louder per watt) than the combination of the SVT410HE AND SVT15HE. I only used that cab as a reference, there are plenty of other high sensitivity cabs out there that would do the same.
 
#64
billfitzmaurice said:
Overpowering. He's undoubtably pushing them well past xmax, and once you do that additional power added gets no more output, only more heat in the coils, and eventually they fail. Going past xmax with guitar drivers is business as usual, they're made with a very short xmax to allow them to do so with minimal input and therefore they don't need to be hit with more than 10 watts to breakup. Doing so with bass drivers will toast them unless the coil/motor assembly is robust enough to handle it. Most of us never push our drivers much past xmax, as the farting out serves as warning enough to back off the power. Someone playing with a highly distorted and/or compressed tone won't notice the farting out until the magic smoke and sounds of silence get their attention. Too late, of course.
Click to expand...

How can I possibly be over-powering when neither the volume on my pedal or amp is dimed? It's only the overdrive that i crank. My cabs should handle this and more!
 
#65
billfitzmaurice said:
Overpowering. He's undoubtably pushing them well past xmax, and once you do that additional power added gets no more output, only more heat in the coils, and eventually they fail. Going past xmax with guitar drivers is business as usual, they're made with a very short xmax to allow them to do so with minimal input and therefore they don't need to be hit with more than 10 watts to breakup. Doing so with bass drivers will toast them unless the coil/motor assembly is robust enough to handle it. Most of us never push our drivers much past xmax, as the farting out serves as warning enough to back off the power. Someone playing with a highly distorted and/or compressed tone won't notice the farting out until the magic smoke and sounds of silence get their attention. Too late, of course.
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Mr. Bill, you have a way with words. I can't explain the problem even half as well as you can. :D
 
#66
Pandafist said:
How can I possibly be over-powering when neither the volume on my pedal or amp is dimed? It's only the overdrive that i crank. My cabs should handle this and more!
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Forget what they "should" handle for a moment - Ampeg is infamous, IME, for over-rating their cabs.

You can go well beyond the limits of your gear without having to dime anything. Overexertion doesn't just happen at "10" - it can occur before that. Besides, you're not just cranking your amp, after all - you're also introducing a third source of gain (your overdrive pedals) into the mix.

A single stage of gain at "11" could be achieved with three stages of gain at lower settings. It adds up!
 
#72
Before you order replacement drivers, STOP.

First make sure that the new speakers will work properly in the existing cabinets. Cabinet design isn't simply "cut some holes and glue on some carpet." The interior volume and the porting are carefully matched to the drivers.

If you simply plop in new speakers, there's a good chance they'll be damaged.

[Edit: I didn't read the entire thread before posting this. Bill is way ahead of me on this.]
 
#73
billfitzmaurice said:
Overpowering. He's undoubtably pushing them well past xmax, and once you do that additional power added gets no more output, only more heat in the coils, and eventually they fail. Going past xmax with guitar drivers is business as usual, they're made with a very short xmax to allow them to do so with minimal input and therefore they don't need to be hit with more than 10 watts to breakup. Doing so with bass drivers will toast them unless the coil/motor assembly is robust enough to handle it. Most of us never push our drivers much past xmax, as the farting out serves as warning enough to back off the power. Someone playing with a highly distorted and/or compressed tone won't notice the farting out until the magic smoke and sounds of silence get their attention. Too late, of course.
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So the clipping IS the problem, but it's because of the vastly increased output that it creates, NOT the waveform.

I think I finally understand. Thanks.
 
#74
If I were you, I would so have a Ric and a massive tube head (peavey 400, SVT?) to cut through that massive wall of sound! I like the music, need to hear more bass! Chris Squire tone would fit perfect with that. In my humble opinion of course...not trying to tell you what to sound like! :)
 
#75
Rick Auricchio said:
Before you order replacement drivers, STOP.

First make sure that the new speakers will work properly in the existing cabinets. Cabinet design isn't simply "cut some holes and glue on some carpet." The interior volume and the porting are carefully matched to the drivers.

If you simply plop in new speakers, there's a good chance they'll be damaged.

[Edit: I didn't read the entire thread before posting this. Bill is way ahead of me on this.]
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It's OK Rick, I've already covered this and Bill F. has done the math/Science.
 
#76
i think i finally understand too!!!

my speaker problems are indeed caused by "thermal failure" as opposed mechanical. too much heat!
a new head is in my future.
and I'd already have a ric if i could afford one.
chris squire is kinda my hero when it comes to bass. you hit the nail on the head Denton57.

this sight is a godsend to me.

thanks everybody
 
#77
Eminor3rd said:
So the clipping IS the problem, but it's because of the vastly increased output that it creates, NOT the waveform.

I think I finally understand. Thanks.
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Almost. The problem isn't the clipping per se, it's too much power. As for 'vastly increased output', that's not the case. The majority of the increased power density of a heavily clipped versus clean signal is in the high harmonics. That does create a problem for tweeters, but because of the rising impedance of woofers with rising frequency it's like water off a duck's back to them. OTOH, almost any amp will easily put out at least twice its rated power when pushed to the max, so a 100 watt amp can fry a 200 watt driver in a pinch. If you're going to push an amp hard having even a 4 to 1 speaker to amp rating isn't necessarily safe.
The poster could certainly benefit from a bigger amp, but if he uses it to drive the same grade speakers to the same levels the result will also be the same. Toast.
 

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