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THE LOUDEST SPEAKER IN THE WORLD IS...
- Thread starter Pandafist
- Start date
rack set up OR a single SVT-CL/2/2pro/VR, would do it thru those cabs.
Also If the Spkrs ARE in fact BLOWN then they would be farting at even moderate levels now wouldn't they???
If they aren't- try a different amp-see if they distort like crazy with another one 1st
Also If the Spkrs ARE in fact BLOWN then they would be farting at even moderate levels now wouldn't they???
If they aren't- try a different amp-see if they distort like crazy with another one 1st
Pete,
I don't disagree with you on the extreme examples you cited, and I certainly don't underestimate the effect of the cab's volume/tuning/driver relationship on tone and sensitivity, but the OP's original question was "What's the loudest speaker.......? "
Actually, if he's blown that many different drivers, they might have been very cheap to begin with, or he has an internal problem with the amp (possibly going D.C.). Who knows?
I guess know one wants to say it but this is totally user error, your using the wrong gear in the wrong way. On top of that cosmetics are the driving factor, not function.
Bad decisions all around, you need to do more research and find the right gear for the job and then know how to use it properly.
On top of all of this you play with another person who calls themself a musician but then you can't have a rational discussion about volume.
Sounds like your going to keep speaker manufacturers in business for a long time.
Rethink everything!
Bad decisions all around, you need to do more research and find the right gear for the job and then know how to use it properly.
On top of all of this you play with another person who calls themself a musician but then you can't have a rational discussion about volume.
Sounds like your going to keep speaker manufacturers in business for a long time.
Rethink everything!
I suppose getting a new keyboard player isn't an option?
I think this may be the cheapest, and more permanant fix
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
You and Pete make the (false) assumption that I don't know how those drivers will work in his cabs.Yeah, he ripped me a new one over a question like this! I'm such a n00b equipment-wise!
False. http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1886
hahaha.
no. no fellas. I can't replace the keyboard player.
She IS the band. She's the lead instrument and vocalist.
check it out.
Link Removed.
Please listen and you will understand EVERYTHING.
Now to try and address as many of your responses as I can in one sentence, let me say this, YES IT IS PROBABLY ALL MY FAULT.
It's been made well clear that I'm hosting the amateur hour in this thread, but that's exactly why I came to you guys. YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME. So you can all stop pointing out my lack of expertise. I'll be happy to do that for you.
I'm just a punk, in a matter of speaking. Listen to my band! I'm not as concerned with the nuance of tone as many of you so clearly are. All I want is BRUTAL volume in a package that my back can handle, ie NO 810 cabs. Already went that route, and they are just too big for stairs (at least when the arms are mine), so until we have a permanent roadie... they are out of the question.
Here's what I've gathered so far. Nothing I have (or have done) is right for what I'd like to do. That pretty much sums it up doesn't it?
Isn't running two chained four tens, or a four ten and say, a 215 (which I also have) effectively the same as running an eight ten? Or am I losing volume in the chain because my amp is powering multiple cabs?
Does chaining vs using the amps multiple outs make a difference?
I've never had these problems with guitar amps. Thus, I've gained a whole new appreciation here. Like someone who realizes for the first time that drums must be tuned, so must bass GEAR, in addition to the strings. My guitar experience has always been so easy comparitively. Replace the tubes or pots if they go bad, other than that, turn it up and GO GO GO.
Well, nothing like that here.
If I'm starting from scratch, please remind what the loudest scratch is?
no. no fellas. I can't replace the keyboard player.
She IS the band. She's the lead instrument and vocalist.
check it out.
Link Removed.
Please listen and you will understand EVERYTHING.
Now to try and address as many of your responses as I can in one sentence, let me say this, YES IT IS PROBABLY ALL MY FAULT.
It's been made well clear that I'm hosting the amateur hour in this thread, but that's exactly why I came to you guys. YOU KNOW MORE THAN ME. So you can all stop pointing out my lack of expertise. I'll be happy to do that for you.
I'm just a punk, in a matter of speaking. Listen to my band! I'm not as concerned with the nuance of tone as many of you so clearly are. All I want is BRUTAL volume in a package that my back can handle, ie NO 810 cabs. Already went that route, and they are just too big for stairs (at least when the arms are mine), so until we have a permanent roadie... they are out of the question.
Here's what I've gathered so far. Nothing I have (or have done) is right for what I'd like to do. That pretty much sums it up doesn't it?
Isn't running two chained four tens, or a four ten and say, a 215 (which I also have) effectively the same as running an eight ten? Or am I losing volume in the chain because my amp is powering multiple cabs?
Does chaining vs using the amps multiple outs make a difference?
I've never had these problems with guitar amps. Thus, I've gained a whole new appreciation here. Like someone who realizes for the first time that drums must be tuned, so must bass GEAR, in addition to the strings. My guitar experience has always been so easy comparitively. Replace the tubes or pots if they go bad, other than that, turn it up and GO GO GO.
Well, nothing like that here.
If I'm starting from scratch, please remind what the loudest scratch is?
Yes, there are lots of people who will critize you for what you are doing. I am not one of them. I respect any music that people want to make.
Here's some of Om's bass gear:
I tried to find a picture of Lighting Bolt's amps but there aren't many.
It is and it isn't. You aren't loosing power from daisy chaining. From the technical side of things, two 4x10s is as good as one 8x10.
However some people say that the 8x10 will handle more power, or that you'll get a 'coupling' db boost from the two 4x10s.
Okay. If I was in your place, here's what I'd do:
1) Learn the liberal application of EQ. You need super huge bass. This isn't achieved by diming the bass knob on your amp's EQ. You need to achieve in naturally, by using large speakers or ported cabinets. Couple recommendations: an Acoustic 18" suger scoop cab. These things have weirdly angled speakers and design that basically throw a whole **** tonne of low, low bass about 20 or 25 feet from your cab. Or, an Ampeg 410, and I appologize for forgetting the model number: it's the one with the large ports and plastic surround. Oh, Here it is:
Invalid Link Removed.
Ampeg Pr-410HLF. A lot of guys say these have more low end than most 15's. You'd also get your highs from the 10s.
2) Consider bi-amping. If you need huge lows and lots of distortion, I'd think about running your lowest lows into one of the above cabs, and then getting dirty with a low wattage (50 - 100W) tube amp through a 4x10 cab for the top end. Throw all your distortion through there and it should get very nasty.
I remember a while back when the guy from SteerS was always blowing speakers, I think he eventually got the 810 but I can't remember for sure. Maybe he had it and replaced it with something else. You could try doing a search for him on Harmony Central.
Anyway if you have any more questions, just ask. And don't mind the peanut gallery.
Here's some of Om's bass gear:
I tried to find a picture of Lighting Bolt's amps but there aren't many.
It is and it isn't. You aren't loosing power from daisy chaining. From the technical side of things, two 4x10s is as good as one 8x10.
However some people say that the 8x10 will handle more power, or that you'll get a 'coupling' db boost from the two 4x10s.
Okay. If I was in your place, here's what I'd do:
1) Learn the liberal application of EQ. You need super huge bass. This isn't achieved by diming the bass knob on your amp's EQ. You need to achieve in naturally, by using large speakers or ported cabinets. Couple recommendations: an Acoustic 18" suger scoop cab. These things have weirdly angled speakers and design that basically throw a whole **** tonne of low, low bass about 20 or 25 feet from your cab. Or, an Ampeg 410, and I appologize for forgetting the model number: it's the one with the large ports and plastic surround. Oh, Here it is:
Invalid Link Removed.
Ampeg Pr-410HLF. A lot of guys say these have more low end than most 15's. You'd also get your highs from the 10s.
2) Consider bi-amping. If you need huge lows and lots of distortion, I'd think about running your lowest lows into one of the above cabs, and then getting dirty with a low wattage (50 - 100W) tube amp through a 4x10 cab for the top end. Throw all your distortion through there and it should get very nasty.
I remember a while back when the guy from SteerS was always blowing speakers, I think he eventually got the 810 but I can't remember for sure. Maybe he had it and replaced it with something else. You could try doing a search for him on Harmony Central.
Anyway if you have any more questions, just ask. And don't mind the peanut gallery.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Yes.
No
Yes, but only slightly so
Because it takes roughly 1/4 the power to reach a set volume with a guitar rig compared to a bass.
Those pictures are great Megadan. If you know those bands, then you know what I'm going for here. Lightning Bolt especially. I see at least 3 HEADS THERE. Jesus.
And those cabs Om have are INSANE!!!
And thank you bill, for obviously being, you know, THE GUY.
My current plan, after all the advice, is to replace the necessary speakers with the recommended variety, and search out a Pro or Classic head. I'll use the 410/215 combination for larger shows, and hopefully the 410/115 will hold up for the smaller,
Is this a game plan, or will I be wasting money because I just blew a whole new set of speakers?
I CAN'T AFFORD TO DO THAT SO STOP ME IF THE ANSWER TO MY PROBLEMS IS NOT A NEW HEAD.
i love you all.
And those cabs Om have are INSANE!!!
And thank you bill, for obviously being, you know, THE GUY.
My current plan, after all the advice, is to replace the necessary speakers with the recommended variety, and search out a Pro or Classic head. I'll use the 410/215 combination for larger shows, and hopefully the 410/115 will hold up for the smaller,
Is this a game plan, or will I be wasting money because I just blew a whole new set of speakers?
I CAN'T AFFORD TO DO THAT SO STOP ME IF THE ANSWER TO MY PROBLEMS IS NOT A NEW HEAD.
i love you all.
After having read that article, I have gathered that average power vs. peak power is the issue in thermal meltdown. In the example, I gathered that the amount of heat the speaker must dissipate can be calculated by the maximum wattage of the amplifier over the difference betwen the average output and peak output, although it does seem strange to me that the product isn't some sort of derived unit, since power is measured in watts and crest factor appears to be measured in decibels. So, if his amp is a 350W amp, and he can reach a crest level of 4db like in the example, the speaker must dissipate 87.5 watts? Does this formula change because the power is spread between any speakers? If the dissipation value decreases as number of speakers increases, than thermal damage should not be a concern. Right?
I'm under the impression that it requires massive (in a relative sense) amounts of wattage to produce mechanical failure, which doesn't seem possible in this situation, given that the amplifier is not even close to the handling limit of the speakers.
I guess what doesn't make sense to me is this: if his playing is not producing dangerous output levels, why are the speakers blown?
Occam's Razor: His playing is producing dangerous output levels. Agedhorse says most speakers are blown either by thermal or mechanical failure. Too much volume or too much bass. His playing is probably producing both of those, but we're working on that.
If you used to play guitar, you may not know this handy little tip... As a bass player, you need at least double the power to keep up to higher pitched instrumentation.
I'm in a band with two guitarists running 40-50 watt amps. I'm using 300-700 watts to keep up.
If your keyboard player is sporting 500 watts you'd better be looking in the 800-1200watt range for amp power, with cabinets to suit.
I'm in a band with two guitarists running 40-50 watt amps. I'm using 300-700 watts to keep up.
If your keyboard player is sporting 500 watts you'd better be looking in the 800-1200watt range for amp power, with cabinets to suit.
i didnt read the thread but im going to give the obvious answer of almost every TB'er
why do you care!? you dont need it! big bands use monitors onstage!(duh!) do a search!!
why do you care!? you dont need it! big bands use monitors onstage!(duh!) do a search!!
and i just saw the second half of megadans last post. thank you. sorry i missed it before.
I've seen those backwards Acoustic 18"s
they rule but for sure but they seem like they'd only really work well on high stages with a crowd that's further away. forget about even hearing those freqs yourself.
Don't get me wrong.
I totally want one, but I'm not sure it's what I need.
I'm trying to use smaller, stackable cabs, that deliver the same wall of waves effect as a fridge. and can also be heard up close. I' know that's what the four tens are for but...
i often play weird venues like house shows, basements, small clubs (making the Acoustic 18" sort of impractical).
I've seen those backwards Acoustic 18"s
they rule but for sure but they seem like they'd only really work well on high stages with a crowd that's further away. forget about even hearing those freqs yourself.
Don't get me wrong.
I totally want one, but I'm not sure it's what I need.
I'm trying to use smaller, stackable cabs, that deliver the same wall of waves effect as a fridge. and can also be heard up close. I' know that's what the four tens are for but...
i often play weird venues like house shows, basements, small clubs (making the Acoustic 18" sort of impractical).
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Overpowering. He's undoubtably pushing them well past xmax, and once you do that additional power added gets no more output, only more heat in the coils, and eventually they fail. Going past xmax with guitar drivers is business as usual, they're made with a very short xmax to allow them to do so with minimal input and therefore they don't need to be hit with more than 10 watts to breakup. Doing so with bass drivers will toast them unless the coil/motor assembly is robust enough to handle it. Most of us never push our drivers much past xmax, as the farting out serves as warning enough to back off the power. Someone playing with a highly distorted and/or compressed tone won't notice the farting out until the magic smoke and sounds of silence get their attention. Too late, of course.
I commend Bill for not recommending the use of his designs, but I'll go this route. Panda, go to billfitzmaurice.com and read the forums/product descriptions.
What you need is higher sensitivity overall. The boxes there will give this to you in spades. And even if you don't buy the plans or decide to build anything, you'll come out wiser having read how sound reinformcement really works.
What you need is higher sensitivity overall. The boxes there will give this to you in spades. And even if you don't buy the plans or decide to build anything, you'll come out wiser having read how sound reinformcement really works.
