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The Official EBS Club

#523
mudpup said:
Got the chance of snagging a TD660 at a great price - does anyone know what the real world gigging difference is between this and the TD650????
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As I understand it , the main difference is that they tweaked the HPF on the front end to be a bit lower frequency. EBS designs all have a pretty steep HPF below 100HZ, based on the (entirely correct, IMHO) observation that sub-100Hz signal from basses is dominated unmusical noise that cabinets aren't generally capable of reproducing anyway, and human brains "hear" bass fundamentals by interpolating from higher harmonics. This is why EBS amps often sound louder than their power rating would suggest - they aren't putting headroom into reproducing rumble. There are people who oppose this approach on religious principle, but even among those who accept it as a legitimate design technique there is debate as to whether the center frequency should be closer to 100Hz or closer to 80Hz. When they went from the TD650 to the TD660, they went down to 80HZ. There area also some convenience features - footswitchable Drive and Mute, etc. All other things being equal, I'd take a 660, but they're very similar.
 
#525
Sid Fang said:
As I understand it , the main difference is that they tweaked the HPF on the front end to be a bit lower frequency. EBS designs all have a pretty steep HPF below 100HZ, based on the (entirely correct, IMHO) observation that sub-100Hz signal from basses is dominated unmusical noise that cabinets aren't generally capable of reproducing anyway, and human brains "hear" bass fundamentals by interpolating from higher harmonics. This is why EBS amps often sound louder than their power rating would suggest - they aren't putting headroom into reproducing rumble. There are people who oppose this approach on religious principle, but even among those who accept it as a legitimate design technique there is debate as to whether the center frequency should be closer to 100Hz or closer to 80Hz. When they went from the TD650 to the TD660, they went down to 80HZ. There area also some convenience features - footswitchable Drive and Mute, etc. All other things being equal, I'd take a 660, but they're very similar.
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No, that is not correct. The input HPF on both the TD650 and TD660 has a -3dB point at 35 Hz. This according to the official user manuals.

However, the HD360 has a lower extension than TD650, 660 and HD350. The HD360 has an SWR like range of 20 Hz to 20 kHz!

Reflection: I wonder if this higher filtering point of the bigger amps is a pragmatical choise, rather than the best sounding. With the power available in the 650/660, the generally high tuned bass reflex cabinets from EBS would suffer badly, should any infra sound transients escape from the amp...

As for your opinion of filtering out sub 100 Hz contents (?!?!), I have 20 years experience in using my EBS 1V2 (-3 dB at 35 Hz) with various power amps, cabs and basses. "Unmusical noise" is hardly the way to describe the low end. It is clear, rich and steady as a rock. The difference to many other amps is remarkable. If anything, it still cuts out a bit of the fundamental low end, when used for five string basses.
 
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#527
I was interested in getting some EBS gear. I've owned SWR, Ampeg, Eden, Carvin amps in the past. Can anybody point out some of the things you guys like/love about EBS gear. Maybe some things that my past quiver of amps lacked? Thank you :)
 
#530
baxter_x said:
Could you tell me a bit more about it? I'm looking for a nice backup amp for my Mesa Titan V12 that has a drive circuit too.
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This is from a review in a swedish magazine about EBS Fafner TD600, "blue line" version:
"The Drive control decides how much of the signal that should
pass through the tube. The low frequencies bypass the
tube unaffected, as it keeps the bass solid. When the
Character button is depressed, all frequencies will go
through the tube."
"The tube is not placed
at the input, though, but comes later in the signal
chain to be able to blend with the Drive control. One
half of the tube is used for this, while the other half is
used for the built-in compressor."
 
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#532
baxter_x said:
Ok, but what about the tone produced. Is it just dirt, crunch or it can produce massive distortion too?
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There are Drive controls on several EBS amp products. On the Fafner and TD650, it manages input to a tube stage. On the HD350, Gorm, and probably (though I haven't yet tried one) Reidmar 750, it's feeding a transistor stage. I'm personally familiar with the HD350/Drome. The closest thing I'd compare it to is a DarkGlass Vintage Microtubes on a relatively subtle setting. Gritty, snarly, but not total fuzz or massive distortion. I got pedals for that other stuff.
 
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#533
Thir13teen said:
I was interested in getting some EBS gear. I've owned SWR, Ampeg, Eden, Carvin amps in the past. Can anybody point out some of the things you guys like/love about EBS gear. Maybe some things that my past quiver of amps lacked? Thank you :)
Click to expand...

So I have used my EBS 1V2 rack mount preamp since 1997 or so... (I have also had other EBS products, but that one is my recerence in this case.)

The tone is notably more transparant and accurate than anything else I have ever plugged into. Period. Still, never harsh or metallic.

Forget about Fender, Aguilar, Ampeg, Trace Elliot and even "modern" amps like Markbass and tc electronics etc.
It handles both macrodynamics and the tiniest details better.

This is true for recording, but even more so onstage. With a high quality bass, the low end gets a "palpable" foundation and heft, that I have never gotten elsewhere, not even by using the Markbass LMII as a pre only into my QSC PLX amps. While the LMII measures a flat frequency response (like the EBS pre!), the signal is still a bit veiled and definitely higher distortion than from the EBS.
It is not an "in your head" thing, my bandmates do hear (and feel) the difference when I bring the EBS to practice.

Mine is about 25 years old (bought used), and has been running great until it was about 20 years old. Now it has new master volume potentiometer, some caps and new FETs in the signal switching (fx loop etc). Components are top shelf, Bourns pots etc. I guess reliability will can not be expected to be any better from any brand. My LMII needed some cleaning and TLC already after 7 years.

As Sid said, compressor is great; again far better than any other bass amp I have used.
The eq is limited, but "idiot proof", as there is no "bad" sound in any setting, just different flavors.

Having said all that, to me the "modern" EBS amps like TD660, HD360 and the Reidmars definitely share the tone and concept of my old pre. The Fafner and various other amps, not so much. They are not as clean and transparant.

The only obvious alternative I can think of would be Glockenklang, which I have never used. Most other brands have too much coloration or "baked in tone" to be comparable.

I am in no way affiliated with EBS, just a happy customer!
 
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#534
baxter_x said:
Ok, but what about the tone produced. Is it just dirt, crunch or it can produce massive distortion too?
Click to expand...

I have not used EBS built in drive in a band setting, only in shops. However, to me it seems similar in tone to the EBS MultiDrive pedal, which I have since many years. It has the character of an overdriven SVT, slightly compressed and maintaining the low end. It will not do "over the top" distortion in any convincing manner, IMHO.

Or you could say, my default setting on my VT Bass is much like the default tone of the EBS, but the EBS will not do "hollow, raging, clank and roar", that I can get from the VT Bass.
 
#535
AlexanderB said:
So I have used my EBS 1V2 rack mount preamp since 1997 or so... (I have also had other EBS products, but that one is my recerence in this case.)

The tone is notably more transparant and accurate than anything else I have ever plugged into. Period. Still, never harsh or metallic.

Forget about Fender, Aguilar, Ampeg, Trace Elliot and even "modern" amps like Markbass and tc electronics etc.
It handles both macrodynamics and the tiniest details better.

This is true for recording, but even more so onstage. With a high quality bass, the low end gets a "palpable" foundation and heft, that I have never gotten elsewhere, not even by using the Markbass LMII as a pre only into my QSC PLX amps. While the LMII measures a flat frequency response (like the EBS pre!), the signal is still a bit veiled and definitely higher distortion than from the EBS.
It is not an "in your head" thing, my bandmates do hear (and feel) the difference when I bring the EBS to practice.

Mine is about 25 years old (bought used), and has been running great until it was about 20 years old. Now it has new master volume potentiometer, some caps and new FETs in the signal switching (fx loop etc). Components are top shelf, Bourns pots etc. I guess reliability will can not be expected to be any better from any brand. My LMII needed some cleaning and TLC already after 7 years.

As Sid said, compressor is great; again far better than any other bass amp I have used.
The eq is limited, but "idiot proof", as there is no "bad" sound in any setting, just different flavors.

Having said all that, to me the "modern" EBS amps like TD660, HD360 and the Reidmars definitely share the tone and concept of my old pre. The Fafner and various other amps, not so much. They are not as clean and transparant.

The only obvious alternative I can think of would be Glockenklang, which I have never used. Most other brands have too much coloration or "baked in tone" to be comparable.

I am in no way affiliated with EBS, just a happy customer!
Click to expand...
So what do you use to power the EBS preamp? Make/model/watts? And by the way, do you live in Sweden? Thanks :)
 
#536
Thir13teen said:
So what do you use to power the EBS preamp? Make/model/watts? And by the way, do you live in Sweden? Thanks :)
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PA power amps. Originally a swedish LabGruppen Lab 1000 (which was heavy and not very powerful, considering its 2x600 Watts into 4 Ohms rating), and since many years QSC PLX 1804 or 3602, depending on what features I need. The 3602 has some added filters and switches. They are both transparant and gives a lot more heft and "slam" than a typical bass amp.

And yes, I live in Sweden.
 
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#537
AlexanderB said:
PA power amps. Originally a swedish LabGruppen Lab 1000 (which was heavy and not very powerful, considering its 2x600 Watts into 4 Ohms rating), and since many years QSC PLX 1804 or 3602, depending on what features I need. The 3602 has some added filters and switches. They are both transparant and gives a lot more heft and "slam" than a typical bass amp.

And yes, I live in Sweden.
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Thank you for the information. You don't happen to have any videos on YouTube of you playing through your equipment, do you?

Thanks :)
 
#538
Thir13teen said:
Thank you for the information. You don't happen to have any videos on YouTube of you playing through your equipment, do you?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

No, not really. But I think the EBS 1V2 is fairly rare, especially in US, so I think you would be better served by looking the current models. My next amp purchase (if any) is probably a Reidmar 750 to replace my LMII.

By the way, youtube is not that good for demoing this level of gear. They have some type of default compression and normalizing, which will destroy all possibilities to do a fair comparison. Playing one is much better...
 
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#539
AlexanderB said:
No, not really. But I think the EBS 1V2 is fairly rare, especially in US, so I think you would be better served by looking the current models. My next amp purchase (if any) is probably a Reidmar 750 to replace my LMII.

By the way, youtube is not that good for demoing this level of gear. They have some type of default compression and normalizing, which will destroy all possibilities to do a fair comparison. Playing one is much better...
Click to expand...
Do you know who The Truckfighters are?
 

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