The Short-Scale Six-String Club—for the original six-string basses!

[Joe Lindley]

Congrats! How much did you get it for, if you don't mind me asking?

$450 + $14 shipping. 7 day auction with $450 reserve, $475 buy it now, but I was the only bidder. Seems perfect.

 

[hypercarrots]

$450 + $14 shipping. 7 day auction with $450 reserve, $475 buy it now, but I was the only bidder. Seems perfect.

congratulations

bing cashback on the buy it now would've brought it down to $437

 

[kslight]

My interest is in a new type of 'VI which can use any available string set at any price.

The Music Man Silhouette Bass Guitar strings in particular have attractive gauges: 20w-30w-42w-54w-74w-90w (6 String Bass Guitar Slinkys #2837 - E Tuning) which come the closest I've seen to 'light tops, heavy bottoms'.

According to a post I read somewhere on the 'Net a few months ago, this string set's E 6th string is a bit too short to fit a Hellcat VI and thus will definitely not fit a Fender VI.

In my view the new Agile VI should be designed to overcome any dependence upon proprietary strings by being able to use the widest selection of string sets, thereby diminishing one of the Bass VI's major turn-offs for many prospective players--finding good strings.

Now if only Rotosound would make 'light tops, heavy bottoms' RS 77 Monel Flatwounds for the various Bass VI instruments...

EDIT: If the new Agile VI employed a reverse in-line 6 headstock, then one would be able to string its four bottom strings with Rotosound RS77S short-scale (or RS77M medium-scale, 'same string gauges: 40, 50, 75, 90), and MAYBE some flat-wound jazz guitar strings for the E 1st and the B.

Even if a balanced-sounding flat-wound string set couldn't be cobbled together, a reverse headstock (yeah I know.., I don't like the way they look either) would yield the advantages mentioned in post #690.

I guess I haven't considered a lighter gauge set very attractive because I think the E and A are a little on the loose side already, so if anything I might consider heavier if I had a choice. So I can see the motivation to want to be more flexible with strings for sure...but I think being able to accommodate to sets that just aren't that long might be a construction/manufacturing limitation on the string side more than on the guitar side. I would find it more attractive if I could piece together sets from short scale bass strings to experiment...but at the same time I have been able to work around the looseness of the strings on a VI through adjustments in technique from what I'm used to (either a 32" bass with heavy flats or a regular guitar strung with 11's).

I don't have a problem with the strings available...I think so far the GHS set has been the best I've tried if you like a bright sound...better than the Fender set for the same money. And if I wanted a more mellow sound I would probably try the Labella set...but I wouldn't mind being able to piece custom sets together (though this also might just be too big of a pain). I could be wrong...but I had not understood that the selection of strings was a big turn-off for prospective players...I think its based more on it just being an instrument for eccentric styles of music...its not as easy as plug in and go to find your style with it and to mix with (presumedly) other musicians...the sonic capabilities of a VI certainly clash with a lot of popular band formations, so unless you were writing music specifically for the VI, it just doesn't make sense to have one (IMHO, however if you ARE the bass player in the band then maybe this is easier)... Given that they are not commonly available in retail stores, I think its fair to say that a lot of people don't purchase a VI because they haven't had the opportunity to try it and know what its capable of/if it works with their kind of music.
I kind of think of the Bass VI in the same elusive realm of the electric sitar...you have to be able to play it to know if its for you or not...and a lot of people I think are too financially strapped to dump a serious amount of money into something that may not be for them (and may be difficult to sell without taking a loss).

After that I'd say entry level price is a bit prohibitive for a decent instrument...Schecter right now probably the best deal (from what I've heard about the Gretsch anyway...) at $600 and its not totally perfect...which is actually more than I've EVER spent on a guitar (okay sorry I like cheap guitars because that is what I can afford to play and not be afraid of it getting ripped off...hence why I like Agile guitars but I've also got some low-end Daisy Rock (aka: Schecter) guitars/basses) and took a bit of thought and consideration (several years worth) before finally taking the great plunge (and never being able to play one first). I hope that is a barrier that Agile will be able to knock down for some that are holding out...

With wanting to use more string sizes I also don't know how much of this limitation can be overcome without custom hardware/et cetera...probably would require more R&D money than I think Rondo Music puts into their designs..and obviously higher costs due to custom parts. As they are currently a budget oriented manufacturer that listens to customer suggestions, and this is their first VI...they are probably going to wait for the response and sales of what they've come up with before putting more into it, and even then I think would push the final cost of the instrument above what people are willing to pay for what is essentially a no-name guitar.

I did suggest to Kurt about the reverse headstock advantages...but that was after V1.0 had already gone into manufacturing and was too late to change. So if he sells enough of these then that could end up a V2.0 thing. I definitely agree that it may be a solution...but at the same time given how much we've been pushing him I would rather support his efforts early on even if its not absolutely perfect than hold out for a V2.0 that may or may not happen.

 

[Flatty Banks]

How the hell do you play one of these?

 

[kungfubassist]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here... i'm glad i found some info on short scale VI string basses! I just bought a Gretsch G5265 Jet and i am wondering if you can tell me does anyone make short scale VI string set with a heavier gauge? I know the Fender VI's are slightly heavier, but I would love to have an even heavier set if possible. Thanks, and looking forward to knowing you all!

 

[MIJ-VI]

1) I guess I haven't considered a lighter gauge set very attractive because I think the E and A are a little on the loose side already, so if anything I might consider heavier if I had a choice.

2) So I can see the motivation to want to be more flexible with strings for sure...but I think being able to accommodate to sets that just aren't that long might be a construction/manufacturing limitation on the string side more than on the guitar side. I would find it more attractive if I could piece together sets from short scale bass strings to experiment...but at the same time

3) I have been able to work around the looseness of the strings on a VI through adjustments in technique from what I'm used to (either a 32" bass with heavy flats or a regular guitar strung with 11's).

I don't have a problem with the strings available...I think so far the GHS set has been the best I've tried if you like a bright sound...better than the Fender set for the same money. And if I wanted a more mellow sound I would probably try the Labella set...but I wouldn't mind being able to piece custom sets together (though this also might just be too big of a pain). I could be wrong...but

4) I had not understood that the selection of strings was a big turn-off for prospective players...

5) I think its based more on it just being an instrument for eccentric styles of music...

6) its not as easy as plug in and go to find your style with it and to mix with (presumedly) other musicians...the sonic capabilities of a VI certainly clash with a lot of popular band formations, so unless you were writing music specifically for the VI, it just doesn't make sense to have one (IMHO, however if you ARE the bass player in the band then maybe this is easier)...

7) Given that they are not commonly available in retail stores, I think its fair to say that a lot of people don't purchase a VI because they haven't had the opportunity to try it and know what its capable of/if it works with their kind of music.

I kind of think of the Bass VI in the same elusive realm of the electric sitar...you have to be able to play it to know if its for you or not...and a lot of people I think are too financially strapped to dump a serious amount of money into something that may not be for them (and may be difficult to sell without taking a loss).

After that I'd say entry level price is a bit prohibitive for a decent instrument...Schecter right now probably the best deal (from what I've heard about the Gretsch anyway...) at $600 and its not totally perfect...which is actually more than I've EVER spent on a guitar (okay sorry I like cheap guitars because that is what I can afford to play and not be afraid of it getting ripped off...hence why I like Agile guitars but I've also got some low-end Daisy Rock (aka: Schecter) guitars/basses) and took a bit of thought and consideration (several years worth) before finally taking the great plunge (and never being able to play one first). I hope that is a barrier that Agile will be able to knock down for some that are holding out...

8) With wanting to use more string sizes I also don't know how much of this limitation can be overcome without custom hardware/et cetera...probably would require more R&D money than I think Rondo Music puts into their designs..and obviously higher costs due to custom parts.

As they are currently a budget oriented manufacturer that listens to customer suggestions, and this is their first VI...they are probably going to wait for the response and sales of what they've come up with before putting more into it, and even then I think would push the final cost of the instrument above what people are willing to pay for what is essentially a no-name guitar.

9) I did suggest to Kurt about the reverse headstock advantages...but that was after V1.0 had already gone into manufacturing and was too late to change.

10) So if he sells enough of these then that could end up a V2.0 thing. I definitely agree that it may be a solution...but at the same time given how much we've been pushing him I would rather support his efforts early on even if its not absolutely perfect than hold out for a V2.0 that may or may not happen.

1) Light tops, heavy bottoms.

2) It would be nice to have some influence on string design as well.

3) I concur. Before I got my MIJ Fender VI in '96 I was playing a 34.5", six-string, fretless, two soap-bar pickup equipped version of an Alain Caron model F-bass. Some adjustments to playing technique proved to be useful.

4) It was for me (which is why I snapped up several sets of D'Addario XL156's shortly after I bought my 'VI. I still have two packs left), and I expect that it would be for other musicians too when they learn that Bass VI strings are almost never available in music shops (in Toronto anyway).

5) IMO all good music is somewhat eccentric.

6) You'd know more about playing a 'VI with other musicians than I do, because I haven't.

However, back when I was gigging professionally (bar bands) it didn't matter whether I played a 4-string fretted or fretless, a 5 or 6-string fretless, 30", 34", or 34.5", picks, fingers, clean & deep, distorted & snarling, effects or no effects etc, my playing always sounded like me--as it does now when I flay my 'VI.

No matter what band I played in my approach was (and still would be) the same: listen to what the other players are doing and help them to sound even better--and that includes adapting my choice of notes and delivery in order to complement instead of clash.

Example: one band leader I worked for wanted me to ditch my fretless 4 as soon as we added a steel player ("we can't have two 'slidey' instruments in the band" ). I said no because I knew there wouldn't be a problem. When the steel soared, I played solid notes. When the steel played static chords, I snuck in a gliss here & there. Ying-yang, yang-ying.

As for the need to write for a 'VI? Good writing and arrangements are required for all of a band's instruments in order for an ensemble to sound musical. An example.

7) Yes. In this case ignorance is 'VI...

8) Assuming the new Agile VI employs a TOM and stop tail-piece, it would cost very little to add a 2nd pair of studs to reposition the stop tail-piece in order to accommodate both: the longer strings made for the Fender VI (a length which also fits the Burns Barracuda, and possibly the Schecter Hellcat VI); and the shorter strings which fit the Jerry Jones/Dano 6, and the MM Silhouette bass guitar.

9) As long as its bolt-on neck pocket and attachment screw layout are symmetrical, then retrofitting a v1.0 Agile VI with a reverse headstock should be as easy as swapping out its right-handed neck for a left-handed one.

10) Indeed, Kurt is to be commended - and supported - for responding to, and heeding Bass VI development advice proffered by 'VI players who don't necessarily adhere to a monochromatic fashion sense accessorized with eye shadow.

I sincerely hope that the new Agile VI sports a practical layout which is - at minimum - functionally on par with the Hellcat VI.

That way I can justify buying one for evaluation/allowing me to send my MIJ Fender VI off for an overdue fret job.

Oh yeah. And if the Agile came in shoreline gold or sea foam green...

 

[MIJ-VI]

How the hell do you play one of these?

The link in post #726 shows one way...

 

[MIJ-VI]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here... i'm glad i found some info on short scale VI string basses! I just bought a Gretsch G5265 Jet and i am wondering if you can tell me does anyone make short scale VI string set with a heavier gauge? I know the Fender VI's are slightly heavier, but I would love to have an even heavier set if possible. Thanks, and looking forward to knowing you all!

Hi kungfubassist.

Welcome fellow 'VI-er!

For roundwounds? .025 - .095 is the heaviest gauge set I'm aware of.

For flatwounds it'd be .026 - .095 (There's only one set available... )

The Facebook group 'Bass VI players.' has plenty of links to strings & things.

 

[hellboy]

1) Light tops, heavy bottoms.

I don't consider .090 a "heavy bottom", personally; .095 is as low as I'm willing to go, and one of my six-string basses has a .105, in fact.

8) Assuming the new Agile VI employs a TOM and stop tail-piece, it would cost very little to add a 2nd pair of studs to reposition the stop tail-piece in order to accommodate both: the longer strings made for the Fender VI (a length which also fits the Burns Barracuda, and possibly the Schecter Hellcat VI); and the shorter strings which fit the Jerry Jones/Dano 6, and the MM Silhouette bass guitar.

Yes, but how many players are actually going to bother moving the tailpiece to use different strings? I wouldn't want studs I'm not going to use on a guitar.

I think the reverse headstock is a good idea that solves the problem (which is not a problem for me) more elegantly. And using bass tuners on the lower strings might be a good idea too - provided it doesn't look too weird.

I've been pretty happy with the strings I have (SIT .025-.095); I think they're no longer in production, though, so at some point I'll have to try the Fender or GHS strings. I wouldn't bother trying to find them in a shop, though, when I can just get them from juststrings.com (or even buy sets of single strings - they carry a wide range).

I definitely do NOT need another 6-string bass - I have three different ones and am starting to build a fourth - but I'm very curious to see what Agile comes up with. If they get it right I'll probably end up getting one.

 

[MIJ-VI]

Relative to the D'Addario XL156 (.024, .034, .044, .056, .072, .084) set that I currently use, the Ernie Ball 6-string Slinky Bass Guitar w/ small ball end (.020 .030 .042 .054 .074 .090) set would qualify as being light tops-heavy bottoms.

 

[MIJ-VI]

Hmm... Link Removed

 

[iamthebassman]

6) its not as easy as plug in and go to find your style with it and to mix with (presumedly) other musicians...the sonic capabilities of a VI certainly clash with a lot of popular band formations, so unless you were writing music specifically for the VI, it just doesn't make sense to have one

I was in a band from '90 to '92, Trance Farmers, which I guess wasn't a "popular band formation"(guitar,keys,violin,bass,drums), and I used the 6-string bass exclusively with that band and it fit perfectly. There was a lot going on musically and the 6SB was able to hold the bottom and also play melody lines, it was great fun.

 

[lousybassist]

Hmm... Link Removed

I like the looks of that one!

 

[lunarpollen]

Whoa I really like that Oceanic... I wonder how much it sells for though....

 

[hypercarrots]

i wonder if he's even built any yet

 

[kslight]

1) Light tops, heavy bottoms.

2) It would be nice to have some influence on string design as well.

3) I concur. Before I got my MIJ Fender VI in '96 I was playing a 34.5", six-string, fretless, two soap-bar pickup equipped version of an Alain Caron model F-bass. Some adjustments to playing technique proved to be useful.

4) It was for me (which is why I snapped up several sets of D'Addario XL156's shortly after I bought my 'VI. I still have two packs left), and I expect that it would be for other musicians too when they learn that Bass VI strings are almost never available in music shops (in Toronto anyway).

5) IMO all good music is somewhat eccentric.

6) You'd know more about playing a 'VI with other musicians than I do, because I haven't.

However, back when I was gigging professionally (bar bands) it didn't matter whether I played a 4-string fretted or fretless, a 5 or 6-string fretless, 30", 34", or 34.5", picks, fingers, clean & deep, distorted & snarling, effects or no effects etc, my playing always sounded like me--as it does now when I flay my 'VI.

No matter what band I played in my approach was (and still would be) the same: listen to what the other players are doing and help them to sound even better--and that includes adapting my choice of notes and delivery in order to complement instead of clash.

Example: one band leader I worked for wanted me to ditch my fretless 4 as soon as we added a steel player ("we can't have two 'slidey' instruments in the band" ). I said no because I knew there wouldn't be a problem. When the steel soared, I played solid notes. When the steel played static chords, I snuck in a gliss here & there. Ying-yang, yang-ying.

As for the need to write for a 'VI? Good writing and arrangements are required for all of a band's instruments in order for an ensemble to sound musical. An example.

7) Yes. In this case ignorance is 'VI...

8) Assuming the new Agile VI employs a TOM and stop tail-piece, it would cost very little to add a 2nd pair of studs to reposition the stop tail-piece in order to accommodate both: the longer strings made for the Fender VI (a length which also fits the Burns Barracuda, and possibly the Schecter Hellcat VI); and the shorter strings which fit the Jerry Jones/Dano 6, and the MM Silhouette bass guitar.

9) As long as its bolt-on neck pocket and attachment screw layout are symmetrical, then retrofitting a v1.0 Agile VI with a reverse headstock should be as easy as swapping out its right-handed neck for a left-handed one.

10) Indeed, Kurt is to be commended - and supported - for responding to, and heeding Bass VI development advice proffered by 'VI players who don't necessarily adhere to a monochromatic fashion sense accessorized with eye shadow.

I sincerely hope that the new Agile VI sports a practical layout which is - at minimum - functionally on par with the Hellcat VI.

That way I can justify buying one for evaluation/allowing me to send my MIJ Fender VI off for an overdue fret job.

Oh yeah. And if the Agile came in shoreline gold or sea foam green...
__________________

1. I don't think of the Ernie set as really light top/heavy bottom either...but I guess it depends on what you are used to...I use the .25-.95 set and I can't imagine putting lighter strings on.

2. I guess it all depends on how much $$$ and effort you want to throw at it...I'm sure with the right level of $$$ influence one could get an alternate string set out of a smaller manufacturer...or piece together goofy singles...but if you are concerned about being able to buy VI string sets in stores then this would be out of the question for sure. I am content to take it "as-is" because I think that the .25-.95 set might be what it is for a reason...though I'd like to see a heavier low E and A string it might just through off the whole balance of being able to play it in a practical sense...I guess we'll have to ask Leo.

3.

4. I used to play Steinberger guitars/basses and those were a pain to get string for on about the same scale as VI...maybe even more (for a five string bass like I had). I can see where its an inconvenience...but I guess I am used to buying everything online to save a couple bucks off retail anyway, so I always prefer to order strings online vs. going to Guitar Center (who from my experience don't carry VI strings anywhere...). As I am 30 minutes from the main Musician's Friend distribution center I tend to get stuff from them rather fast, and Juststrings.com has also proved to be speedy.

5. Or at least the people who play it are...

6. Yeah its certainly a matter of personal style, choice of notes, and execution in the end...but I think the VI is a complicated instrument for people to figure out their space in a band with...if you already have a drummer, singer, bassist, guitar player, and keyboard player...where do you fit exactly without stepping on everyone else? Which isn't to say you can't do that on any other instrument...but the VI's frequency range seems perfect for an instrument to totally overpower everyone else if the music isn't written conscious of this fact. Not an issue if the player knows what they are doing maybe...but also not as simple to arrange as say...a guitar and a 4 string bass...

8. I think this would over-complicate the issue a bit...especially since I imagine only a limited number of people would want this alternate configuration...better to stick with it being designed for Fender VI strings (I think getting into Ernie and Jerry sizes would make things confusing for those unfamiliar with their specifications...only recently did I understand the subtle scale difference and thus string difference...) as these would probably appeal to more players. If they wanted to try something lighter there's always the D'Addario Fender VI set. If it could be made to accept something heavier that would be nice...but not really a deal breaker for me.

9. One would think...

10. I'm impressed that he's doing it at all really...given the economy and the specialty instrument factor... If he does a good job and improve the design though we can hope that it will benefit his business. I keep bringing up his 8-string guitars...because that design seems like a sincere improvement on others that I am aware of...both in design and price. Similar instruments (that I am aware of) by Schecter and ESP are on a 26.5" scale...the Agile is a 28.5" scale...which seems like the bare minimum you'd want for even standard tunings on this guitar (low string is F#)...let alone the fact that I'm sure its players will want to tune it even further down. The Agile guitars also look a lot nicer...instead of the blah gloss black finishes they have relatively unique looking ones. And the price is less than half of the nearest competition... The Agile looks very professional in its own right, the 8-string especially seems to push Agile out of the low-end Asian made guitar market into a niche of its own. If he puts that much effort into the Agile VI, I'd say we can at the very least expect V1.0 to match the Hellcat VI in functionality.

 

[MIJ-VI]

Whoa I really like that Oceanic... I wonder how much it sells for though....

It looks good, and if one wants the Fender floating tremolo, and a flip-up string mute... But I believe it's currently a just a prototype.

However Paul Rhoney also offers Link Removed.

 

[hypercarrots]

those with schecter hellcats, is your neck plate plain silver with schecter engraved in it or is it relief with black in the center?

 

[MIJ-VI]

Hi kslight.

You played 'bergers?

My fretless five was a Steinberger that I bought in over-reaction to having to suffer a fretless P with a broken truss rod for approx. 3 months.

Of course I also wanted to move up to a five as well--and at the time Fender didn't make any.

I've never played a fretted 'berger but my fretless one was a dog--no resonant thump or pithy rasp--'ebonol'. :scowl:

IMO though a number of Mr. Steinberger's current creations would go great with a 'VI.

 

[Stereordinary]

i wonder if he's even built any yet

No, I haven't.

I've got a body rough cut, but that's about as far as I've gotten with it. I know, I know, my website really needs to be updated. That's in the works actually, but I guess I can't keep up with the rumors on the internetz!

This seems like a nice forum you guys have here, I think I'll have to spend some time lurking about and reading project threads.

-Paul Rhoney