This is the most active thread of all my watched threads. Crazy!
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The Sushi Box FX Secret Society
- Thread starter kranahan
- Start date
Many thanks to FenderP for the finely detailed review of the gear he has . This will save me from any broken and crushed dreams when a certain pedal release happens ! ... LOL . I will be jumping on the Sushi train though when the Westinghouse builds begin being available for sure . ..... Kelly
Thanks for the great write-up! May I ask what your end-to-end setup was (basses are listed, but anything beyond the 4CAB M+?) , and if you tried to test the pedals through the P-15?I spent this evening playing through the Fliptop, P-15, and the Slampegg Twin using four of my basses (Rob Allen Deep 4 with the dual output - the main reason for the Twin, my 78 fretted P, my 72/78 maple fretless P, and the Blast Cult Gateway). I am going to wire up a pedalboard so I wanted to get settings for the various combos for my Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B. M+ and not have to worry about disassembling again.
I also put an older GE 12AX7 into the Twin.
Anyway, I'm not going to make this a long post because at some point I'll do a video or something because I have a LOT to say after about 4 - 5 hours of tinkering around. The three pres couldn't be more radically different even though they are all emulating essentially the same thing.
Side note: I'm really loving the C.A.B. M+. Dial in the pre tube correctly and use the right speaker and mic combo for your bass and it's surprising. Modeling has come a LONG way.
Slampegg Original (mini tube/6N21B) vs. Slampegg X
Both pedals sound really good. Kudos to Sushi. They're different so for me it depends what sound you're going for. The OG definitely cops more of the "classic" B-15 sound but with things like the Ultra High/Lo/Bright, it's more like a later model. Where you can tell the OG is more like an original is that it pairs better with the (not free) CTS IR from an older B-15 than the newer one they call WGrandBlvd (which I think is based on the modern Jensen).
Moving the gain just a little on the OG has a LOT of effect on the sound. Honestly I didn't really crank it past like 1 and I got the sound I was going for.
The X, as I expected, was tonally similar to the B-25B I used to have since it also used a 12AX7. There's much more headroom so the gain could go higher and more granular. It also sounded really good, but this time it sounded better with the WGrandBlvd IR. Again, the different voices as I kinda expected matched with a relatively equivalent "speaker".
What got me the most excited was when I used (not free) IR which Two Notes captured from the B-25B 2x15". I used to have it so I know it well. I played that for years. All I'm going to say is I now have a B-25B in a MUCH more portable rig. There's my rock tone, full stop. I'm so effing happy. Thanks, Sushi. That alone for me makes the X version worth it.
How well did it work with why I wanted the Twin? Fantastic. I could have the piezo and the mag plugged into different Slampeggs and tweak each sound. I know Sushi will never do a Twin again, but it's awesome.
Sushi vs. Broughton
All three handled both piezo (i.e. active) and magnetic (passive) pickups just fine whether the signal was hot or not. If anyone is concerned there, don't be.
Let me get this out of the way up front: the P-15 sounds freakin' incredible - and it should for the cost. Far and away it's the best of the three at nearly everything. I can't run both outputs of the RA into it, so on that level it kinda sucks for the RA. I've been using my resistance mixer but I'd rather not deal with that. It does a really good rock tone with the 2x15, but the Slampegg X with the 12AX7 gives me more of that B-25B sound as it should due to the different tube.
The Fliptop is not bad. To me, it was the "worst" of the three. Even at 24V, I had a much harder time dialing in a sound. With the P-15 and both sides of the Twin that was never an issue. It reminds me more of a real, old school 60s B-15 in overall tonality with some of the quirks of it, too. If you want a sound more akin to a "classic" B-15, it cops it pretty well once I dialed in a sound. I don't regret getting it BUT if I let go of one, it'll be this.
The Fliptop will probably need some sort of clean boost because it's not loud at all. I bought a SV-Boost to put after it thinking it would work. It didn't. That I'm definitely going to sell. Boy people aren't kidding - that think even at 9V will blow your flippin' head off by just barely touching the knob.
If I was ranking, it's P-15 > Slampegg Twin > Fliptop.
What's right for you? It's going to depend on what sound you want. Best bang for the buck is the Slampegg IMO, and if you want more versatility in a pedal, the X is probably going to give it to you. The Classic is nice, but I think the X's tonal palate might be better for rock since it uses the 12AX7. Like I said, I got my B-25B sound pretty easily which I can't do on a real or "fake" B-15 with the other preamp style.
If I decide NOT to put the P-15 on the board, I could live with just schlepping the Slampegg and not think twice but ... P-15. Both will probably live on the board.
They're all pretty worthy and we're spoiled for choice. I've said it before: the Ampeg sound DNA is similar, but know which one you want. All B-15s are not the same, and a B-15 is not an SVT, V-4B, or B-25B, either.
I haven't compared any of these to my real B-15N yet and this is the first time I've really used any of them outside of the P-15 for any length of time.
Cheers,
Nick
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The only other pedal I use at all which has tone-changing properties is the TC Electronic Bodyrez and it's only for the piezo output of the RA. I've got a HPF I may introduce into the chain - we'll see. I'm waiting for a few pieces to do my routing but once I get that stuff I'll snap a pic. I'm not an effects guy and if you told me a year ago I'd be using a pedal board and not an amp head I would have laughed at you.
I did not run the Slampegg through the P-15. I'm sure it'd be fine if that's your cuppa, but I don't see the need to run an Ampeg stack into an Ampeg stack.
My goal was not to take business away from Josh and sent it to Sushi but I'm sure he'll be happy to take your order
You may love the Fliptop or like me, find you like the Slampegg better. It's a total first world problem.
Neither seem to be having trouble selling product, so I don't think saying you like one over the other is particularly concerning.My goal was not to take business away from Josh and sent it to Sushi but I'm sure he'll be happy to take your order
Oh I know. Some people could get "offended" if you say you didn't like something. It is the intertrons lol
Thanks. I run my bass into a Jule Monique to PA and/or cab, and if I'm honest I don't really need anything in between... but having toyed quite succesfully with modellers, I am now having fun with adding pedals to have different flavors/characters available at the flick of a switch, to add over my base tone which I set to kind of "neutral" but with which I am otherwise very happy.
Hence my question - and you are right in that stacking doesn't always work, but I've found for instance nice grind/dirt tones with an SV-Pre and Locust Star, and the first rehearsal test of Slampegg X with gain pushed into some dirt was quite promising (and I haven't tried the Hi/Lo switches, which respectively push the Lows and Highs on my unit
).Playing with pedals is really the point; as effective and practical as the modellers are/were, analog is a lot more fun.
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Thanks. I run my bass into a Jule Monique to PA and/or cab, and if I'm honest I don't really need anything in between... but having toyed quite succesfully with modellers, I am now having fun with adding pedals to have different flavors/characters available at the flick of a switch, to add over my base tone which I set to kind of "neutral" but with which I am otherwise very happy.
Hence my question - and you are right in that stacking doesn't always work, but I've found for instance nice grind/dirt tones with an SV-Pre and Locust Star, and the first rehearsal test of Slampegg X with gain pushed into some dirt was quite promising (and I haven't tried the Hi/Lo switches, which respectively push the Lows and Highs on my unit
Playing with pedals is really the point; as effective and practical as the modellers are/were, analog is a lot more fun.
For me, playing with pedals actually isn't the point. I can't schlep my B-15 with me and it's not loud enough. Plus, it's heavy. My back thanks me for leaving it at home.
Like the Jule Monique, I could probably use just the P-15 into the Baby Sumo and be (for the most part - see comments about the RA bass) happy. But it doesn't 100% nail the tone, hence me adding the power amp and speaker simulations. Sure, that's still tone shaping but I'm essentially building an amp with separate components. I have no interest in anything else. Obviously your needs/desires are different than mine which is cool. I love seeing what other people do.
I just love the fact now I can have a B-15 (different eras) and a B-25B tone that is 300W.
I like the look of that one!Yeah the red on black was not a great design choiceWas going for something different and got something different, but different isn't always useful. Glad it sounds good though
100% agreed, it's nice to see what others do and why. I must say hauling bass, pedalboard, and the Jule Monique (I have the Tardis version with integrated 700W amp) to rehearsal is not my favorite part.
For someone who’s never played a B15 or B25, how would you say these are different? How does B25 stack up against SVT?
Different beasts. A bit of perspective - over the years I've owned:
- SB-12
- B-15N (still have it)
- B-15R
- B-18
- V-4B
- B-25B
- SVP-CL
The unmodded B-25B as well as the B-15S and one or two other fliptop variants (see my post somewhere in this thread) use the 7027A as well as the 12AX7. The 7027A is basically a bigger 6L6. The B-25 and B-15S (again, and a few other variants) are meant to be louder and with the different power and pre, combined with different speakers, it's an every so slightly different take on the familiar Ampeg tone. The B-25 to me sits well in a mix much like the B-15, and as evidenced by the B-15S, is basically the "stack" version of the B-15. I'll capture some clips at some point to demonstrate - not right now though.
The SVT uses the 12AX7, but its power section is very different. I don't know historically as I'm not an SVT afficoanado, but I *think* they always used a 6550. If you've ever heard an SVT, it has a much more "aggressive" sound compared to any fliptop or the B-25B. The V-4B is inbetween to my ears. The SVT tone is pretty iconic and why so many want to emulate it. If you have a power amp sim, just switch between, say, a 6L6 and a KT88 or 6550-based one. They're not the same animal. For me, that's a huge part of the tone and why even with the B-15 stuff, I've sought out power amp sims because the tone section isn't the only thing affecting it. With the SVT, it is synonymous with the 8x10 fridge which also adds to the tone coloration.
Not sure that answers your question. As I've said more than once, the Ampeg house "sound" DNA is in all of the stuff they do but the variances can be heard.
If this didn't explain it, let me know. If someone else has better thoughts, please feel free to share.
TL;DR = aggressive rock tone is SVT; others are generally not outside of the V-4B which is inbetween.
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So I had to give up on CineMag a while back for D.I. transformers, but I finally have someone to work with at Jensen and just placed my first order for a handful of transformers to play with. I'll see what I can come up with and of course keep you all posted.
My take on this: Everyone and their dog are doing squeaky clean full/flat-frequency-response transformer DIs these days. I'd like to see a coloured "transformer tone" DI.
That may not be possible with what you've ordered from Jensen, but my understanding is that a high-iron core transformer may impart a little more colour/heft/weight than say a nickel-iron transformer core.
I'm with you 100% on that. That's why I wanted to deal with CineMag, they're supposed to be similar to Jensen but with a little more flavor.
So @JKos just mentioned Lightning Boy Audio, who has the "TI Box" (thicker injection box). He winds his DI transformers himself and his goal was exactly that, to get a less transparent but more flavorful tone out of the transformer. He doesn't mention on the website that he sells the transformers direct, but I sent him an email asking if he'd be willing to. Worst case scenario he says no and I'm stuck using the Jensens.
EDIT: Just dug into his website a little more and it looks like he sells his transformers direct in his shop. I'm going to pick a couple up for now to compare with the Jensens that I have coming and see what I think. They're more expensive than the Jensens, so we'll see what happens.
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They are excellent for sure, but the magic is in the transformer, and there are no more of those transformers around. I need to find something I can consistently source.
So DI is all about changing impedance. Output transformerless (OTL) headphone amplifiers are a big thing with audiophiles because you're getting the sound straight from the tube, it's not being colored (colored in audiophile land isn't as good as it is in guitar/bass land) by a transformer. They do this by selecting a tube and/or manipulating a tube circuit such that the output impedance matches the impedance of the load they're trying to drive, like a 300ohm pair of headphones.
Well the same thing can be done to go direct into a console/PA/other low-impedance input, you can get a nice low-impedance output from a cathode-follower buffer and feed that straight in if you don't want any additional coloration from a transformer.
