Was just looking at a past thread here on the topic and it's seems that it's a package deal; shape, tuner layout and the term "3+1".
Sire would seem to be in the clear here.
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This is interesting... Sire MM Bass???
- Thread starter LAST_C
- Start date
Sire would seem to be in the clear here.
I like what Sire does, but I actually wish they charged more in exchange for better QC and materials quality.
I had an M7. There were aspects of it that were great (satin neck, electronics and pickups, quality bridge) but aspects that were dead giveaways of the price point (low quality tuners, a poorly cut nut, loose and wabbly dials).
Just charge more and fix the obvious issues so I'm not sitting here spending more time/money fixing and modifying.
I had an M7. There were aspects of it that were great (satin neck, electronics and pickups, quality bridge) but aspects that were dead giveaways of the price point (low quality tuners, a poorly cut nut, loose and wabbly dials).
Just charge more and fix the obvious issues so I'm not sitting here spending more time/money fixing and modifying.
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Sire is built and SOLD overseas and then shipped here. I'm guessing that bypasses the 3+1/4+1 headstock thing.
I love my V7, and I have really liked every Sire I have gotten my hands on and played.
Had this design come out when I was perusing getting a Stingray, I likely would have still gone the route I did by getting a Ray24CA and swapping out the pickguard and pickup (Nordstrand MM4.2) to nail the tone I was hearing in my head. The Ray24CA had the 2-band preamp that I was wanting for trying to get the classic 70s tone...or as I said, the tone I was looking for in my head.
I know that at some point these will show up at my local store and I will definitely give one a go, but doubt I would actually buy one.
I will add that I really don't care for the body shape.
Had this design come out when I was perusing getting a Stingray, I likely would have still gone the route I did by getting a Ray24CA and swapping out the pickguard and pickup (Nordstrand MM4.2) to nail the tone I was hearing in my head. The Ray24CA had the 2-band preamp that I was wanting for trying to get the classic 70s tone...or as I said, the tone I was looking for in my head.
I know that at some point these will show up at my local store and I will definitely give one a go, but doubt I would actually buy one.
I will add that I really don't care for the body shape.
I suspect that what EBMM has trademarked is the shape of the peghead. These Sire Z series has the same shape peghead as their Fender style instruments. The peghead shape and the shorter lower horn probably keeps Sire clear of trademark infringement.
I'm not a lawyer but here's an interesting link regarding the EBM trademark:
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"Starting with a lightweight mahogany body in a well-balanced Z-Bass carve,"
That wood is mostly known to be on the heavier side, no?
That wood is mostly known to be on the heavier side, no?
There are always trade-offs. If Sire spent another $200 and upgraded the tuners, nut, knobs and pots, would they be able to sell as many basses? Would buyers appreciate the upgrades? My guess is that a fair number of Sire customers are new players who do not even see what needs improvement.
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Upgraded materials is one of the reasons I'm interested in the "natural" Z7. Swamp Ash instead of Alder, and roasted maple neck and fretboard.
All I know is that no one else does it on the bass or guitar side of things. That says to me that there is some legal reason why. At the end of the day there was no reason for Sire to make a new design for this bass other than copying and that seems fairly wrong. Just use the stock headstock.
I honestly have no dog in this fight as I have no great love for either brand, and frankly don't care for the super cheap offshore labor etc. etc business model.
Ernie Ball has no hold on that tuner arrangement, just like Gibson has no hold on 2+2, or Fender on 4 inline, it's the whole package. The Sire headstock shape looks nothing like the Ernie Ball.
The reason nobody else has done it? I don't know, it doesn't look that great?
I am probably wrong, but I seem to recall that Fender made the mistake of not trade marking their overall instrument shape. That left folks free to copy the strat / tele bodies & necks at will. Apparently they protected only the shape of their headstock.
I think (another guess) that Leo learned a lesson and probably put more protections in place with Musicman. I see lots & lots of exact copy (except for the headstock) P and J basses but so very few copies of a Stingray which leads me to believe MM has better ground to stand on and is more aggressively pursuing those who copy their products.
Of course, I may be entirely wrong.
I think (another guess) that Leo learned a lesson and probably put more protections in place with Musicman. I see lots & lots of exact copy (except for the headstock) P and J basses but so very few copies of a Stingray which leads me to believe MM has better ground to stand on and is more aggressively pursuing those who copy their products.
Of course, I may be entirely wrong.
Wow, I had no idea we had so many trademark lawyers here on TB.
Except what I see on the internet says the opposite. There is some trademarks on the tuner placement and it specifically talks about tuner placement separate from the headstock design. 1+3 (like on the acinonyx) is open game but not the other way. Here is the trademark for the guitar side of things.
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Also, the Z7 has stainless steel frets where it appears the Z3 does not.
I wouldn't. The G&L instruments are Leo Fenders third creations. The L2000 sounds and looks very different from the MM basses. They have Precision like bodies, completely different preamps, and that headstock….
I'm not saying they should abandon their more affordable business model. I just wish they made an additional higher tier of their product lines that sat somewhere around Lakeland Skyline quality.
