Here's a question...since dead spots are the bane of bolt on necks, do the number and/or size of the bolts make any difference? My bass is a 6 bolt neck. Just curious, like a cat...
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This is what a "Dead Spot" sounds like
- Thread starter -=DanAtkinson=-
- Start date
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,633
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- John K Custom Basses
not in my experience. it has to do with the resonant frequency of the neck, not how many or large the bolts are.
And that resonant frequency is a byproduct of the fact that you have 2 separate pieces of wood (the neck and the body) mated to each other by bolts, correct or am I misunderstanding this.
Some folks have wondered what a "dead spot" sounds like. Well here you go. This is about as bad as they come. A customer of mine brought me this 2006 MIM P bass with a nasty deadspot. As usual, it's on the 7th fret of the G string.
In this audio clip you'll hear 2 normal notes on the G string, and then the dead D note: http://www.atkinsonbasses.com/storage/deadspot.mp3
Here's a picture of the waveform:
This is a great example to those who deny their basses don't have a dead spot. All wood basses/necks have dead spots...although..some may be much less noticeable.
Not true...I have had Rics and Spectors...neck thru models that have had dead spots. John Hall on the Rickenbacker forum pointed this out with adjustments to the truss rods that could help.
Neck thru basses also have dead spots. A better more scientific description would be, "Quick diminishing notes"...as you can get a note...it just has less energy than most other notes.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,633
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
all basses have them (i.e. bolt-ons, set necks and neck thrus) but some just have more noticable ones than others. i can feel the neck vibrate more on a dead spot (kinda acting like a shock absorber), whereas where there aren't any, the neck doesn't shake and remains still.
The neck and body thing is correct, the "joined by bolts" part is not. It doesn't matter how the wood is joined be it by the tree (neck through) or bolts. The key feature is you have this long thin relatively flexible "twanger" (the neck) attached to a large relatively heavy solid object. At some frequency even though the neck is stiff, it is still flexible enough to vibrate. When you find it's resonant frequency, it does and it sucks energy from that note. Hence a "dead spot".
The universe being the way it is, somehow these dead spots are always on notes you want to use a lot! So people are always trying to somehow move them somewhere else. They standard way to do this is to add weight to the head stock. That way you can move a dead spot at G down to A# or at D down to C# where they won't matter so much. The weight doesn't get rid of the dead spot just lowers it's frequency!
I have experimented with variations in bolts in a bolt-on neck and they can make a SLIGHT difference in dead spots it's not enough to "fix" any such problems. Also changing the stiffness of neck will alter it's resonant frequency (hence truss rod adjustments will move dead spots) or even keep it from "twanging" altogether (heavy non-adjustable graphite necks)
Even if graphite necks do have resonances because of the stiffness they will be such high notes they won't be a concern.
One SURE way to get rid of a dead spot is to simply press your headstock against a wall when you play the note! Simply damps out all neck "twang" and the bass comes alive! It's just not practical to play it that way! Which is why people have built these basses either with the body extending way up the top side of the neck (stiffens a large part of the neck) or with one of those weird "flying buttress" constructions that go between the bass body and the headstock. It's just a permanent version of pressing your headstock to the wall! I've never tried one of those so I can't say how it works, but I've done the wall thing and it works for sure!
Quickie said:
I can second this with set necks. My Epiphone EB3 has a dead spot on the D string, fourth fret.
Huh? That just shows the phenomenon. It doesn't prove that all basses have audible dead spots, even if technically they may exist, they most certainly don't have to manifest themselves in a way we can hear them.
I have four Rics, and one has an audible dead spot. The other three don't. That's just how it is, on a functional/practical level.
I wonder if this problem would still occur if you were to construct a bass out of a material other than wood (I think Ampeg had some Plexiglass type basses back in the day)
I had one of the Dan Armstrong Ampeg Lucite (Plexiglas/Perspex) basses...it had a maple neck with rosewood fingerboard, mine had the usual dead spot inspite of it's short scale. It was very heavy but it balanced fairly well.
I don't know. Good question. But if the neck can vibrate, you can bet it will have various damping points.
Physics sucks sometimes.
Yeah--I don't deny that. But what about the PRACTICAL element of this. If you don't hear it, why worry?
I think there is a lot of this. I mean the common thing of adding weights is to move a dead spot from a common note down to a less common one. And my Modulus with a graphite neck (very stiff with NO truss rod) seems to have no dead spots. Because of the extreme stiffness of the neck I'm sure they are probably there but at much higher frequencies where they are either out of range or unnoticed. Anyway, my playing every note on the bass couldn't detect one. So like you say, if I can't hear it, do I care if there actually is one there somewhere that somebody can measure with a laser? I don't think so.
if the neck was maple then it was no different than any other bass. The question would be if a LUCITE neck would have the problem. I don't have exact figures but my guess would be that plastic would be about as flexible as wood (unless it was fiberglass or graphite composite). The ONE advantage of plastic would be that unlike wood whose uniformity is at the mercy of the tree that grew it, the plastic necks would be totally uniform in consistency.
So I'm guessing the deal would be if the given plastic neck had no dead spots then none of them would or if the plastic neck had some horrendous dead spot, then EVERY bass made would have it!
OK....I will agree with that. I can't hear the difference between a 70's all tube SVT head vs a newer classic one. Some swear they can.
+1
My P has that dead spot, I keep it strung with flats and when I play that line and it sounds just right.
I does bug me sometimes though.
