Thoughts on Pino Palladino

[bassstrangler]

I've been a Nine Inch Nails fan since the beginning. I've seen every line up they've had. Then I saw the Austin City Limits where Pino was playing and just thought "wow, this guy can do whatever he wants". Definitely not a tough gig at all. So I would assume he can pick and choose and there must be some sort of mutual admiration between Reznor and himself. But it seems to me Pino is a bit over qualified to be playing with NIN.

 

[JimmyM]

I've been a Nine Inch Nails fan since the beginning. I've seen every line up they've had. Then I saw the Austin City Limits where Pino was playing and just thought "wow, this guy can do whatever he wants". Definitely not a tough gig at all. So I would assume he can pick and choose and there must be some sort of mutual admiration between Reznor and himself. But it seems to me Pino is a bit over qualified to be playing with NIN.

Probably paid pretty well.

 

[Max Blasto]

Damn right it's OK! You should be so lucky someone asks you to sell out

LOL! True. But in this case, no thanks.

Allow me to frame it this way: There are those here who learned their instrument to express their creativity. There are others who did it to garner attention from desirables. At one point or another many had to decide between one or the other, the endeavors for them being mutually exclusive. Some chose creativity, others the desirables. For many this is easy; their creativity wasn't much, or the desirables weren't much. For a select few both endeavors were attainable. I think Pino fits this select category.

My point here is that folks who rationalize Pino playing a gig that doesn't showcase his talent (and it doesn't, trust me) just because he's getting a whopper paycheck, are saying that it's good to sacrifice your creativity for a paycheck. I don't think I can speak to what "good" is, but I can think of a few ways to argue against that thought process. It basically comes to "if you're making money who cares?"

Which basically means that Gene $immon$ is a better bass player than Pino cuz he's made more money. See what I'm getting at?

So, to the OP TJH3113, I think you're right, mix notwithstanding Pino's doing a session man's gig, and that's it. It goes on his resume and when the next member of The Who croaks, he moves on to the next paycheck. Is it what we want to think of as "worthy" of a great artist? Well, he's not making songwriting royalties, so he'd better do something.

As for The Who, they like Zep were a gestalt phenomenon. The effect of the group was greater than the sum of the individual parts. Replace one of the parts and the group was no longer "magical". Stones, nah, as long as you have Mick and Keith, it doesn't matter who else is there (maybe a good gig for Pino?). But both Roger and Pete know that the group isn't the same and never will be so the idea is to reprise the old songs with session players knowing that many will pay $$ to hear septuagenarians try to look like they are in their 40s and sing songs that are 50 years old. It's an oldies act. Pino doesn't have his old voice, but then again, Roger doesn't either, now does he?

Pino's collecting a paycheck just like Pete and Roger. And like Pete and Roger, he gave up who he "was" to do that. As John Lennon said, you can always listen to the old records.

 

[A-Step-Towards]

His work with The Who wont be much longer if Pete or Roger call it quits or dies then that will be that.

 

[MDBass]

I'm here to learn. Teach me something besides how to come across as arrogant.

Sorry you were offended, I was merely quoting what someone else had already said.

I also pointed you towards a variety of other musical acts you seemed not be aware he had worked with and suggested an alternate reason as to why he primarily plays fretted basses now.

He didn't abandon fretless bass playing, the commercial music industry did; he just happens to be one of the most adaptable session players in history, so much so that when he is referenced in a session now it's almost certainly going to be for his P bass vibe.

 

[MDBass]

If you think Pino has transformed himself to "just another bassist" then I would reconsider how well you know the instrument. He is a hired gun who plays what is required to make the song/performance better. One of the best hired guns out there and makes a great living doing it.

OP, this is the post I was quoting.

 

[JimmyM]

Max, you're making two really presumptuous assumptions...

1. You're assuming that Pino doesn't enjoy playing with The Who.

2. You're assuming that Pino feels stifled when he's with The Who.

Pino is not a songwriter. He has always functioned best as someone supporting songwriters and singers and is very comfortable in that role. Not only that, but The Who is one gig out of many that he does. Not only does he do The Who, but he does a full plate of session work, and tours with other huge names in the business, and can pick and choose what projects he wants to do. If he didn't like playing with The Who, he wouldn't be there. Yet for some reason, you pity him? Pfffffft! The guy's having the time of his life and making great coin to boot! Meanwhile, you're the one bitterly complaining. You might want to take a look at that picture and decide if it's him who has the problem or you.

 

[Max Blasto]

Disavowed? I don't think so! True, ultimately they ended up not being happy with Kenney, but both those studio albums with Kenney were huge and both had a handful of Who classics.

RE: Pino, well they cut Kenney loose after two albums, but Pino's been there now for 14 years, and if they were as unhappy with him as they were with Kenney, they'd have cut him loose by now, too. You may not like him but plenty of people do.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. It was the live album that they disavowed (Who's Last).
As for the studio albums, Roger was very unhappy with It's Hard, and Pete allows that it's not a great Who album. John hated the process. But it did have two hits on it, so I can't imagine that it was all that bad.

And you're right, Pino's had the gig for a good long while. And he's been a good bass player for a good while longer than that. I think a lot of people on this threat have misunderstood the premise of the thread, at least as I understand it. It's not about whether I like Pino's body of work (I do, he's terrific). It's whether The Who are a good showcase for his talent. They're not.

He's a great bass player. But in The Who, he's a punter. Then again, The Who are punters now too.
I think that's TJH3113's point: Pino and The Who used to be standouts in their own ways. Now neither are. For The Who, it's obviously age and attrition. For Pino? Dunno. He can still play, but anyone could do what he's doing with The Who.

 

[JimmyM]

He's a great bass player. But in The Who, he's a punter. Then again, The Who are punters now too.
I think that's TJH3113's point: Pino and The Who used to be standouts in their own ways. Now neither are. For The Who, it's obviously age and attrition. For Pino? Dunno. He can still play, but anyone could do what he's doing with The Who.

You and I are punters. They are The Who. They have never been punters, and never will.

I hope when you reach their age that some kid on the internet doesn't try to tell you that you should quit or that you're not worthy of performing. They're selling out arenas...what are YOU doing?

 

[Max Blasto]

Max, you're making two really presumptuous assumptions...

1. You're assuming that Pino doesn't enjoy playing with The Who.

2. You're assuming that Pino feels stifled when he's with The Who.

Pino is not a songwriter. He has always functioned best as someone supporting songwriters and singers and is very comfortable in that role. Not only that, but The Who is one gig out of many that he does. Not only does he do The Who, but he does a full plate of session work, and tours with other huge names in the business, and can pick and choose what projects he wants to do. If he didn't like playing with The Who, he wouldn't be there. Yet for some reason, you pity him? Pfffffft! The guy's having the time of his life and making great coin to boot! Meanwhile, you're the one bitterly complaining. You might want to take a look at that picture and decide if it's him who has the problem or you.

Sorry, Jimmy, I think we're talking past each other. I'm not bitter about anything Pino does musically, and certainly don't begrudge him the gig, nor do I begrudge The Who in their endeavor to carry on in whatever form they choose. Yeah, he's plenty busy and rightly so, and good on him for that. He doesn't _need_ to play with The Who anymore than he needs to play with John Mayer. He's a first call guy. As for whether he likes playing in The Who, well imagine a Londoner his age who wouldn't! If Queen called him, he'd probably take that gig too! I think one of the reasons that he's stayed on with the Shepherd's Bush boys so long is that he gets on with Pete really well historically.
1 I imagine that he very much enjoys playing with The Who.
2. I don't imagine "stifled" would apply to a gig like that for most rock players, and certainly not a pro like Pino.

So, no, can't say those assumptions are my thing.

What I do think is that I'm less inspired by his playing in The Who than I am with some of his other gigs.
I also think that I'm less inspired by The Who with him in it, but I don't think it's his fault that's just where they are now.

I think both were exciting and now neither are. If you dig it, that's cool with me. They're all still icons to me.

 

[therealting]

A few things I've heard:

• They're paying him north of 40 grand PER GIG. They could have any session player in the world for that money. It's not my style of music at all, but you can bet that if they called me, I'd do what it takes to secure the gig.
• Pino has said that Roger and Pete have given him complete freedom with his basslines, and he has chosen to honour key signature parts of the originals while feeling things out at gigs.
• He recognises that the vast majority of players are there to see Roger and Pete, and plays and acts accordingly. If you've ever seen a television broadcast of The Who recently, the cameras are ALL trained on Roger and Pete. Pino and Zac are only seen if they happen to be behind Roger or Pete on a wide shot. Pino is certainly not trying to do an impersonation of John.
• Pino is good friends with Roger and particularly Pete. I've done gigs with friends that I'd never do with anyone else. I usually end up enjoying it because of the company anyway, and if I get paid really well, that's all the more reason to take it.

 

[Max Blasto]

You and I are punters. They are The Who. They have never been punters, and never will.

I hope when you reach their age that some kid on the internet doesn't try to tell you that you should quit or that you're not worthy of performing. They're selling out arenas...what are YOU doing?

Well, I've never thought of you as a punter, but ok, I see what you're trying to say.
But lemme ask you this: when did I say that Pino or The Who should quit? Not worthy of performing? Gimme a break, they're The Who. Lots of people want to see that show.

As for when I'm in my 70s, if someone of any age suggests I should hang it up because I don't sound like I did when I was 25, I'll tell them what I very well remember JimmyM saying right here on TB about classic bands playing without all the original members: What, I was supposed to retire the minute I recorded that one song you liked so that your teenaged memories could be forever frozen in amber? Actually, I don't think you used those exact words, but your point was that band lineups change over time and if one guy in REO Speedwagon wants to get his hip replaced, the rest of the band shouldn't need to retire.

I think now, you've made an assumption or two of your own. Let me be clear. I think The Who should keep playing (I wouldn't mind a new good set of songs too) until they no longer feel the muse, or can no longer stand. And Pino should too. What I really loved about The Who is now beyond their powers. And Pino's powers, well he's a session guy. Fitting In is what he does. But fitting in was never what The Who was about which is why I think its as much a mismatch as Kenny Jones was. He was good too. Just not in The Who.

As for selling out arenas, a lot of people are doing that. Are they as great as The Who was?
As for what I'm doing, maybe one day I'll be playing in your area and you can hear. As you know, the music business is nothing like it was 50 years ago, and album/ticket sales are not the hallmarks of artistic expression. So I don't think I should hang it up because I'm not getting Pino's gigs. I don't think you should either.

 

[JimmyM]

Well that's good to hear...I was getting worried for a minute

But in all fairness to me, comments like yours are 999 times out of 1000 indicative of someone who feels like the band in question ought to hang it up. So you are definitely one out of 1000!

 

[Max Blasto]

Well that's good to hear...I was getting worried for a minute

But in all fairness to me, comments like yours are 999 times out of 1000 indicative of someone who feels like the band in question ought to hang it up. So you are definitely one out of 1000!

Just trying to stand out....

 

[cnltb]

Thoughts on Pino Palladino
Good and tasteful player.
And I don't think he sold out at all.

 

[TMARK]

Two different things - his performance and the mix. Mix was terrible though. I'm not in a position to critique his performance, his success as a sought after session player speaks for his abilities. That being said, I don't think he was the best choice to "replace" Entwistle. They got a drummer who plays similarly to Moon in Zak Starkey so why not try and match up the bass end at least a little bit.

I believe The OX died just before the tour. Pino was a last minute addition so there was probably not a lot of thought about matching Entwhistle's style exactly. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[TMARK]

His work with D'Angelo is extraordinary.

The deepest groove. The bestest.

 

[Chico Ruger]

Pino is so smooth here...

He can bring it.

 

[nickbass]

In the 80's and beyond, Pino had an instantly recognizable voice via his fretless work with Paul Young, David Gilmour, Don Henley, Pete Townsend, Melissa Etheridge, Elton John... Does anyone besides myself ever question his decision to give up that voice and resign himself to sounding like "just another bassist"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning his obvious talent, just his decision.

This is a subtopic:

What got me thinking about this was I "saw" him (note I did not say "heard" him) perform with The Who last night and, in my opinion, they may as well have had a cardboard cutout of a bass player on stage with them. That's how lacking the presence of the bass was in their mix.

Some of the older rockers have fried the top end of their hearing spectrum and a normal bass end sounds far too loud for them. So they dial down the the bassist in the mix..hence probably not Pino's choice!

 

[Billybladez66]

It's a gig and the guy is pro...that's it. Now putting down the fretless for being cliche is new to me...but him playing with the Who and staying underneath it all is what pro sidemen do. He is just like Daryl.Jones with the Stones...awesome player with a bunch of signature sound and technique.....but it's the stones and a gig is a gig....you play what and how your bosses say.