Thunderbird Club

[Miles_ONeal]

Not sure that's a compliment, I can feel my arteries clogging.

On another note, I just sold a bass. Yamaha BB734.

Congrats! Though for a few seconds I was trying to recall you personally owning one that you could have sold…

 

[Miles_ONeal]

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I probably could have resisted this purchase of it was any other color...but as we all know, purple is one of the Prime Tone Colors and just sounds better. For real, being purple and that this one is VERY lively acoustically is what sold me.

That may be as sparkly as mine. They’re so much fun, and play and sound great. Congrats again!

 

[Haji]

That may be as sparkly as mine. They’re so much fun, and play and sound great. Congrats again!

Thank you! The strings on it are pretty new, so I'm gonna wear them out before I put some scrubbing into the fret board. Intonation is really good right now; it's been babied. I'll likely knock down the gloss on the back of the neck as I done on all my other basses with painted necks, but for now I'm just playing it. It really is a fun bass. Thanks!

 

[ThaCoast]

Nothing new - such has been around for a long time now. I personally think it's wrong and illegal for a company to sell a bass that isn't a Gibson with a Gibson decal on the hs. Clones are another story. Most of the time there are obvious differences. In the '70s, the MIJ copies were in many ways better than what Fender/CBS were producing. The difference is they had their own branding even if it looked the same. And I don't think anyone is being fooled into thinking these cheap basses are real Gibsons - they know what they are and will buy them and mod them like they do with cheap Epi's and Squiers. At a certain point it really doesn't matter unless Gibson goes after these Chinese companies the way Rickenbacker has and now Fender is attempting to do (as usual late to the party).

I've bought a few "counterfit" guitars/basses with the sole intent on modifying anyways. My D.A. plexi bass got a new 31" scale neck, & everything else changed too. A silverburst LPC as a tribute to Joey Jordison's - its got the gibson logo on the headstock, but its really an epiphone with a gibson book headstock. None of these would ever be sold.

Then there's this - I made one Jazz bass clone body of light-weight roasted ash years ago and have modded a J-bass clone. As far as I'm concerned - whatever. Come get me Fender.

With the amount of FSO ive built, to my specs & desires - im in your boat.

 

[roccobass]

Then there's this - I made one Jazz bass clone body of light-weight roasted ash years ago and have modded a J-bass clone. As far as I'm concerned - whatever. Come get me Fender.

As this charter member of the Mod club used to say…SOLID!!!!



And as I say…Mod on, good buddy.

All my mainstays have been Fender mods or parts basses. They’re like tract homes. Usually workable when you acquire, but they always need some extra touch or two and away you go mixing and matching.

 

[dagrev]

Not new, but a drummer friend and I were talking about using backing tracks (not us).

When your "live" performance doesn't match you track...

 

[JIO]

I've bought a few "counterfit" guitars/basses with the sole intent on modifying anyways. My D.A. plexi bass got a new 31" scale neck, & everything else changed too. A silverburst LPC as a tribute to Joey Jordison's - its got the gibson logo on the headstock, but its really an epiphone with a gibson book headstock. None of these would ever be sold.



With the amount of FSO ive built, to my specs & desires - im in your boat.

This is the only cheap MIC bass with counterfeit branding (even MADE IN USA!) that I bought with the intent of modding. (and it needed it) I did so for a fun project and sold it for double what it cost me. (woo-hoo ~) The buyer loved it and well, I don't think Gibson makes an 8-string bass...

If interested... https://www.talkbass.com/threads/v8-project.1575246/

 

[Engle]

 

[GBassNorth]

Not new, but a drummer friend and I were talking about using backing tracks (not us).

When your "live" performance doesn't match you track...

That looked painfully awkward.

 

[Stealth57]

This is the only cheap MIC bass with counterfeit branding (even MADE IN USA!) that I bought with the intent of modding. (and it needed it) I did so for a fun project and sold it for double what it cost me. (woo-hoo ~) The buyer loved it and well, I don't think Gibson makes an 8-string bass...

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If interested... https://www.talkbass.com/threads/v8-project.1575246/

Saw it but never got to hear it.

 

[dagrev]

That looked painfully awkward.

Indeed! I have zero sympathy for them. If you are a professional getting paid $$$$$$, there's something wrong with you if you can't play your own music. Could have been forced on them by TV people/constraints, don't know. I would refuse. But you often sell your soul to be famous. The day you can't play your own music well is the day working at GC is for you. There are plenty of skilled bar bands who can do it for you.

 

[JIO]

Saw it but never got to hear it.

It sounded good through a P.O.G.

 

[JIO]

That looked painfully awkward.

I wonder who got blamed for that!

 

[GBassNorth]

Then there's this - I made one Jazz bass clone body of light-weight roasted ash years ago and have modded a J-bass clone. As far as I'm concerned - whatever. Come get me Fender.

I think it’s all just talk. Fender doesn’t have the legal precedent to do entirely what it wants to do. If they were really serious about reducing or eliminating copies they should probably looking at a multi prong approach that leverages their company size and market influence along with some novel patent paths.

Size - Fender corp could probably outspend any given boutique or low production builder one on one. So pick off a few of the less stable builders and spend them under the table (buy up their raw materials at inflated prices, encroach on their supply chains, head hunt their talent…) make it too expensive for a small shop to continue making FSOs and they’ll get the hint and switch directions. Other builders will see the result, realize what the cost is to stay in that FSO market and quickly shift gears.

Marketing - make it a no brainer to every box store and guitar retailer, set a quota to meet. If the retailer wants to continue selling Fender products and parts then they need to sell 10 Fenders (or whatever the right number is) for every non fender FSO they sell or their right to sell or maintain fender products is revoked. Incentivize the complying stores with deep discounts on Fender stock to aid the stores profit margins, other stores will follow.

Patenting - get creative on making and patenting minor changes to the Fender products then aggressively go after anyone who crosses that new line, maybe partner with Rickenbacker on legal processes, they’ve been fairly effective at junk yard dog tactics. Hook up with Harley Davidson legal teams and find a way to patent how a P Bass or a Strat sounds then go after anyone that crosses that line.

But for heavens sake drop the stupid idea of litigating against something like a FSO that you have never in the last 70 years been even remotely legally concerned about and which, over generations, has become the retail and consumer experience norm.

 

[Stealth57]

It's illegal to sell raw milk in CA...

 

[Haji]

I think it’s all just talk. Fender doesn’t have the legal precedent to do entirely what it wants to do. If they were really serious about reducing or eliminating copies they should probably looking at a multi prong approach that leverages their company size and market influence along with some novel patent paths.

Size - Fender corp could probably outspend any given boutique or low production builder one on one. So pick off a few of the less stable builders and spend them under the table (buy up their raw materials at inflated prices, encroach on their supply chains, head hunt their talent…) make it too expensive for a small shop to continue making FSOs and they’ll get the hint and switch directions. Other builders will see the result, realize what the cost is to stay in that FSO market and quickly shift gears.

Marketing - make it a no brainer to every box store and guitar retailer, set a quota to meet. If the retailer wants to continue selling Fender products and parts then they need to sell 10 Fenders (or whatever the right number is) for every non fender FSO they sell or their right to sell or maintain fender products is revoked. Incentivize the complying stores with deep discounts on Fender stock to aid the stores profit margins, other stores will follow.

Patenting - get creative on making and patenting minor changes to the Fender products then aggressively go after anyone who crosses that new line, maybe partner with Rickenbacker on legal processes, they’ve been fairly effective at junk yard dog tactics. Hook up with Harley Davidson legal teams and find a way to patent how a P Bass or a Strat sounds then go after anyone that crosses that line.

But for heavens sake drop the stupid idea of litigating against something like a FSO that you have never in the last 70 years been even remotely legally concerned about and which, over generations, has become the retail and consumer experience norm.

I would posit an easier way. Fender already dominates the market, so use that when marketing. "Sure, other companies make an OK guitar...except Gibson...but it's not a 7ender. You can have the 'as good as' or you can have the 'as'." This approach also doesn't make them look like as big a bunch of a-holes as they do now.

It would be less of a PR firestorm if they just drop the whole thing. They'll still dominate the market.

 

[GonePlaid]

I wonder who got blamed for that!

The lowest individual on the totem.

 

[JIO]

I would posit an easier way. Fender already dominates the market, so use that when marketing. "Sure, other companies make an OK guitar...except Gibson...but it's not a 7ender. You can have the 'as good as' or you can have the 'as'." This approach also doesn't make them look like as big a bunch of a-holes as they do now.

It would be less of a PR firestorm if they just drop the whole thing. They'll still dominate the market.

sounds reasonable... the suits will never adopt it

 

[dagrev]

I think it’s all just talk. Fender doesn’t have the legal precedent to do entirely what it wants to do. If they were really serious about reducing or eliminating copies they should probably looking at a multi prong approach that leverages their company size and market influence along with some novel patent paths.

Size - Fender corp could probably outspend any given boutique or low production builder one on one. So pick off a few of the less stable builders and spend them under the table (buy up their raw materials at inflated prices, encroach on their supply chains, head hunt their talent…) make it too expensive for a small shop to continue making FSOs and they’ll get the hint and switch directions. Other builders will see the result, realize what the cost is to stay in that FSO market and quickly shift gears.

Marketing - make it a no brainer to every box store and guitar retailer, set a quota to meet. If the retailer wants to continue selling Fender products and parts then they need to sell 10 Fenders (or whatever the right number is) for every non fender FSO they sell or their right to sell or maintain fender products is revoked. Incentivize the complying stores with deep discounts on Fender stock to aid the stores profit margins, other stores will follow.

Patenting - get creative on making and patenting minor changes to the Fender products then aggressively go after anyone who crosses that new line, maybe partner with Rickenbacker on legal processes, they’ve been fairly effective at junk yard dog tactics. Hook up with Harley Davidson legal teams and find a way to patent how a P Bass or a Strat sounds then go after anyone that crosses that line.

But for heavens sake drop the stupid idea of litigating against something like a FSO that you have never in the last 70 years been even remotely legally concerned about and which, over generations, has become the retail and consumer experience norm.

Workable ideas. Maybe you should have been a problem solver. Likely no good path forward at this point. But I get it. If Ford made the Mustang shape and then any time later Chevy decided to have a virtual Mustang replica but with different tail lights but call it a Nova, Datsun made one called the XM, and VW made one.... etc, etc., Ford would certainly have taken action then or now. How it was set up in terms of patents is not my area. I think typical design patents run about 15 yrs then anyone can copy what you invented/made, but car styles have a different set of rules and are tied to the visual aspect which lasts who knows how long. Meaning you can't copy the shape, likely ever without some form of permission.

Other makers were/are playing by the rules as they exist. Generally. Fender should seek to address that possibly for future instrument shapes. But for now, "that ship done sailed" and is nowhere near So. Cal. at this point. I can appreciate them wanting to reign it in, but a sledgehammer may not be the best first option given the time frame and patent lapses. A wiser approach is called for. But wisdom is a very rare commodity.

 

[Engle]

Indeed! I have zero sympathy for them. If you are a professional getting paid $$$$$$, there's something wrong with you if you can't play your own music. Could have been forced on them by TV people/constraints, don't know. I would refuse. But you often sell your soul to be famous. The day you can't play your own music well is the day working at GC is for you. There are plenty of skilled bar bands who can do it for you.

Agreed, but we think in terms of art. Many think of it as business, so whatever is most efficient wins.

We were working on an Eagles tune the other day and our singer said someone had analyzed concert recordings finding that the waveforms were identical from one Eagles concert to the next. I haven't had a chance to look into that - don't know if it was the current "Eagles" or an earlier version.