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Tone is all in the fingers

#121
Way...way back in the day, for many years, I played a '63 Fender Jazz Bass (flats-never changed) with a pick through a Sunn 2000 amp with the big Sunn 2x15 JBL D140 cab. Always a clear, full sound and I never really messed with the tone at a gig once it was set. I liked using a pick because playing in various venues with bad acoustics, the clear tone coming out of the amp helped keep the low end from being so muddy. I always played with the same hand position on top: I held the neck with my thumb wrapped around the outside of the narrow JB neck so I could keep my wrist straight and comfortable on long gigs. I positioned my pick hand kinda close to the bridge to get a slightly brighter, cleaner tone. So everything was consistent.

Fast forward to the 90's. I picked up an Ibanez Musician Bass with dead round wounds, active 3 band eq plus two band passive tone control. And after joining TB 2008, I learned to play well with my fingers based on reading what everyone said about the topic. And I also added wrist muting and pick/pluck position to the tool box. So now, after jamming at a studio where the base amp may not always be the same, by using the combo of all of the aforementioned, I can get many different tones to cover a whole lot of songs with pretty good match to the original bass tone. Even then, based on how the bass sits in the mix, I'll change it up to make sure I'm not stepping on anyone else or getting too much bass where it loses its definition.

I like the sound=tone+style definition. Still, I just do what works for me and the music. :bassist:
 
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#122
Arjank said:
If I give someone my bass and he plays on it I hear the tone of my bass but the playing style of that other player, that's how I see it.
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Hopkins said:
IMHO, style is style, and tone is tone.
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This is the core of what I was getting at in my first post when I mentioned playing a single note. You can hear the tone (and yes, there will be some variation depending on the player's right hand position, how hard a hitter he is etc) but I doubt that many (any?) of us would be able to identify the player from that single note.

What happens when that player actually starts playing will show his individual playing style and musicality - something quite separate from tone.
 
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#124
While I agree that "tone" can be varied depending on playing technique, I generally feel that "tone", as we generally think of it, is mostly based on equipment. Style on the hand, is all the player.

To illustrate with an example....Billy Sheehan. He is a player with a fairly recognizable style, and a unique tone. Consider these cases:

1. Plays a basic scale run on his rig. His dual amp, compressed/chorused tone would probably still be recognizable.
2. Plays same scale run on Pbass directly into SVT. Different tone, no one would know who was playing.
3. Plays intro to "Addicted to that Rush" on Pbass directly into SVT. Would again be recognizable as Billy Sheehan.

So, his tone (dual output bass into dual amp rig with his "cocktail" of FX) makes him recognizable and is based on his equipment. His style also makes him recognizable.

Anyway, just my 2c.

Later
Rob
 
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#125
In a live band scenario with wailing guitars, crashing drums & cymbals and screaming vocals, I have my doubts if it matters much the tone thing with fingers or pick. Bass mostly comes across sounding like, well..........bass!

I agree that playing in the living room, I can hear big differences, depending on where I pluck, be it near the neck or near the bridge. A MM Stingray doesn't even sound like a Stingray if not plucked near the bridge and right over the pickup.

In the living room, I can hear differences with which fingers I use. Use the thumb for a down ward pluck and it has a nice thick bass sound. Use the index finger and it is brighter than the middle finger. Using the ring finger to pluck (not the easiest thing to do) and I get a nice smooth bassey sound because the ring finger has the softest meat. The index finger is heavily used for picking ears, boogers, pealing tape, etc, etc and as a result, the meat on the index finger tip is pretty tuff compared to the other fingers and thus, it gives a brighter sound than #2 and #3. Plus, the index finger is our strongest finger and has the best control compared to the others.

A pick has the most defined sound with quick snap and punch and mostly too much "twang". Flats and a pick is a strange bass sound like those old 60s recordings of Joe Osborn.

I guess everybody's tone is gonna be different just like everybody's hand writing is different.
 
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#126
JackANSI said:
I think saying "in the fingers" is a misnomer that spreads misunderstanding.
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Doug Parent said:
You bring up a good point. I see it this way. People are basically good but not always necessarily bright. When they hit a confusion, they can get overwhelmed and in order to deal with this overwhelm and confusion, they adopt a "datum" to deal with the confusion (and also make themselves "right") The datums they invent to make themselves right could be called a computation. If "the tone is in your fingers" is used by someone to make himself right , then he failed to address the earlier confusion he ran into. (Amplifiers have those funny knobs with strange words or numbers that were never really understood :) Or maybe it's compounded by earlier confusions on the subject of math. Peoples strange behavior and computations can usually be traced back to an earlier confusion. In this case we have a datum "tone is in the fingers" and then there is the matter of how this phrase is picked up and used by others while perhaps also trying to deal with a similar confusion. The phrase itself is incomplete as a datum, but it appears to "serve" some people well who never really understood their tools but didn't want to appear stupid.
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Nuance is lost on the ADHD world of the internet. People prefer pithy phrases that will fit in a meme or tweet. Of course all music starts with the player; no one if every suggesting that if you give a novice a $3k bass they will magically because a pro over night. However, sometimes it feels like people use this as a straw man to vent their negative feelings about expensive basses. If you can get all you need out of a $300 bass, go over it. I, however, see value in more expensive instruments. And if those better tools inspire me or create a sound that matches what I'm trying to express, isn't that a good thing?
 
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#127
socialleper said:
If you can get all you need out of a $300 bass, go over it. I, however, see value in more expensive instruments. And if those better tools inspire me or create a sound that matches what I'm trying to express, isn't that a good thing?
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YES! It is a good thing! I agree!

If a Fender Custom Shop Bass or AVRI is gonna make me feel better about myself than playing than a mediocre MIC or MII or MIM Fender Bass than it has to have a positive effect on my playing. I agree with you!
 
#131
socialleper said:
However, sometimes it feels like people use this as a straw man to vent their negative feelings about expensive basses. If you can get all you need out of a $300 bass, go over it.
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I have to agree in this. And by no means i have an expensive Bass or equipment. But sometimes i feel that too. The all in the hands can easily be felt when somebody is just trying to justify his inexpensive equipment over expensive one. Is not excluive, but somehow reiterative. I repeat, by no means i have or had expensive equipment
 
#132
I'm just thinking about Glenn Gould and his grandiose interpretation of J.S. Bach on a Steinway grand piano.
Would his Bach interpretations sound the same on a "generic" Bösendorfer grand piano? Very likely not I suggest. Glenn Gould's trenchant analytic insight of Bach music compietes straight to the point with the sound of the Steinway piano.

Never the less pianos can't produduce different tones from dfferent players but the individual "voice" of different musicians (different interpretations) is still there.

Some anekdote of the very long past. While Frederic Chopin admired the very expressive powerfull playing style of his friend Franz Liszt, Franz himself was very impressed by the sensitive poetic playing style of Frederic.

IME to make a firm tone on a stringed instrument is a basic skill in every way. Of course there is an audible difference between a very first beginner and a pro (experienced) player but that's not the point IMHO.
 
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#134
Matthijs said:
What maybe plays a role in these discussions is that a part of the bass players community prefers a bass that is set up as light as possible and they play with a very light touch. Played that way the bass itself does dictate most of the tone, but there's less room for dynamics. Others (like me) prefer a bit more room for dynamics in the right hand and variation in tension in the left hand. That way we areable to influence tone with our fingers. Different schools of playing, that will lead to different views on what determines tone.
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au contraire. The lighter the touch you use at your lowest useful dynamic level, the GREATER the dynamic range is available!
 
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#138
ThisBass said:
A pro guitar player probably woun't share this opinion. Damping technique of strings is a basic skill that a beginner mostly neglects.
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Fine, you are absolutely right. A pro player will sound exactly the same playing an EB-0 with a single mudbucker and flats as he would playing a Sting Ray with SS rounds. Gear doesn't mean a damn thing, its all in the fingers
 
#140
Downunderwonder said:
I never said it was ALL in the player. So many in this thread
want to take it literally as if English is their 2nd language. Read my first post in the thread.
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Tone is mostly in the gear, the whole premise of the player being responsible for most of the tone is ridiculous. Again, the example of Flea switching from GK to Acoustic is a prime example
 

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