Tube preamp heads: Gimmick??

[69Jazz]

While technically correct based on the notion that one component uses tubes and the other uses transistors, I think you're the only person I've ever seen refer to them as anything but tube amps since the power section was tube.


Which is why I referred to them as rare birds. The only other one I can think of were those Crank guitar amps that were popular in metal circles in the mid-00s.

Peavey Mace guitar amps. I have a 100w 2x12 combo. Skynyrd used them back in the day.

 

[BadExample]

Tina Weymouth on Pycho Killer. Killer tone, a bit of crunch and compression. She used an Acoustic all ss head for that.

On the original studio version? By that I mean "Talking Heads:77" Dunno if there was ever a single or a radio version. I ask out of curiosity, not to be confrontational, but I can rephrase and change the tone a bit if you like

Yah, that baseline... Has to be one of the most recognizable bass lines ever. Say something once, why say it again?

I got a tape I want to play.

I believe this would be the only Talking Heads studio release where they made Chris play a pan. Like a frying pan. I assume the band wanted to fire the drummer, but since he was sleeping with the bassist, this was not a viable option. So they took away his drum kit for a week.

You know, they remastered a bunch of their stuff in the 90's or maybe later, for release on CD. I need to find those. I have all the vinyl releases.

 

[Bassbeater]

I had a Sunn Colliseum 300, I loved it's sound. Very funky warm and SS. I also had a GK2000rb SS, loved it too, tone like angry ice-water. Now I have a Hartke LH 1000 hybrid, the tone is good on it's own, but I think it's the headroom that lets it carry whatever my pedalboard feeds it. The hartke doesn't sound very tubey to me. For versatility in bass amp tones that need high volume, headroom wins out regardless of configuration imo. I also use a Kustom 5 watt defender (class a valve) for recording most guitar parts and also for recording bass to add tube break up if needed. The Kustom is a simple valve amp and a champ for glassy tones or wet and heavy distortion. So many great sounding amps available these days!

 

[Coolhandjjl]

On the original studio version? By that I mean "Talking Heads:77" Dunno if there was ever a single or a radio version. I ask out of curiosity, not to be confrontational, but I can rephrase and change the tone a bit if you like

Yah, that baseline... Has to be one of the most recognizable bass lines ever. Say something once, why say it again?

I got a tape I want to play.

I believe this would be the only Talking Heads studio release where they made Chris play a pan. Like a frying pan. I assume the band wanted to fire the drummer, but since he was sleeping with the bassist, this was not a viable option. So they took away his drum kit for a week.

You know, they remastered a bunch of their stuff in the 90's or maybe later, for release on CD. I need to find those. I have all the vinyl releases.

I listened to it on a YouTube from an Old Grey Whistle Stop appearance, and the bass came across perfectly during that session with the Acoustic amp.

 

[fhm555]

My Traynor Db800h has 1 tube in the preamp and I can turn it on or off as I please. So it can be a hybrid head or completely solid state. The basic tone is the same but I always have that tube on because it sounds so much better. I had my friend blind test it on me to make sure it wasn’t mental. We changed the settings a bunch and all that fun stuff without me looking.

I’ve done the samewith a Carvin BX500, had someone switch between tube and SS pre without me knowing which was witch and there is a noticeable difference, even to my old ears. Neither sounded bad, but with the tube it sounded fuller, meatier?? Not being an amp-o-phile i’m at a loss for the proper technical terms, but i know what i hear is different between the two. The SS pre sounded more like a GK combo i’d recently tried if that helps.

 

[bass40hz]

I use a pair of GK MB Fusion 800s, they can sound very tubey and crunchy if you want them too...simply use the B channel, it is designed to push the pre tubes whereas the channel A is designed for a clean tone ..we all hear things differently, to me, these are it, the Twins or nothing!

 

[DavidEdenAria]

My Eden Metro has the tube 1st channel, its pretty warm and smooth sounding and i am a tube guitar amp guy thru and thru.

Otoh, i also have a Music Man HD 150 2x12 with SS preamp and 4 - 6L6GC power amp....i havent tried it for bass, but will soon....should be interesting!

 

[seamonkey]

I’ve done the samewith a Carvin BX500, had someone swirch between tube and SS pre without me knowing which was witch and there is a noticeable difference, even to my old ears. Neither sounded bad, but with the tube it sounded fuller, meatier?? Not being an amp-o-phile i’m at a loss for the proper technical terms, but i know what i hear is different between the two. The SS pre sounded more like a GK combo i’d recently tried if that helps.

It could be as simple as it being a little louder.
Louder always sounds better
When comparing two amps/pre-amps gain matching is an important step if you want the truth.

 

[fhm555]

It could be as simple as it being a little louder.
Louder always sounds better
When comparing two amps/pre-amps gain matching is an important step if you want the truth.

Louder was not something i really noticed. All we did was turn off the amp, my friend would flip the switch, or not, then turn the amp back on. I never noticed any change in volume, it just sounded fuller, more lush, with the tube. Again, neither was bad and either i’m sure could be worked with, but with nothing more than with tube and without, i liked with tube better, even when i didn’t know which was which.

 

[DJCalamari]

I have been gigging a Rumble 500 combo and recently tried out a Fender Bassman 500 hybrid.
The Bassman is a Rumble 500 power section with a tube pre-amp. I bought the Bassman because of the sound difference. I do think it is an enhancement.

That's what I have. For me, it's the best of both worlds. It's no vintage SVT, but it's also 17 lbs. vs. 80 – and it looks nice too. I haven't A-B'ed it with the Rumble 500 per se, but it's definitely got a warmer tone than the Rumble 100 combo amp. Nice, thick compression when the gain on the Overdrive channel is cranked.

 

[seamonkey]

I’ve done the samewith a Carvin BX500, had someone swirch between tube and SS pre without me knowing which was witch and there is a noticeable difference, even to my old ears. Neither sounded bad, but with the tube it sounded fuller, meatier?? Not being an amp-o-phile i’m at a loss for the proper technical terms, but i know what i hear is different between the two. The SS pre sounded more like a GK combo i’d recently tried if that helps.

It could be as simple as it being a little louder.
Louder always sounds better
When comparing two amps/pre-amps gain matching is an important step if you want the truth.

Louder was not something i really noticed. All we did was turn off the amp, my friend would flip the switch, or not, then turn the amp back on. I never noticed any change in volume, it just sounded fuller, more lush, with the tube. Again, neither was bad and either i’m sure could be worked with, but with nothing more than with tube and without, i liked with tube better, even when i didn’t know which was which.

Add in one more comparison. Don't always flip the switch, but just touch the volume up or down a little. A little more volume will make it sound fuller, more lush, more bass, ...
It's important to gain match when comparing things.

 

[HeadWind]

I don’t think any generalization works.

Yeah, as they say "All generalizations are false"

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That's what I have. For me, it's the best of both worlds. It's no vintage SVT, but it's also 17 lbs. vs. 80 – and it looks nice too. I haven't A-B'ed it with the Rumble 500 per se, but it's definitely got a warmer tone than the Rumble 100 combo amp. Nice, thick compression when the gain on the Overdrive channel is cranked.

Haven't tried cranking the OD channel yet. I originally bought the Rumble 500c because it sounds more like tubes than any SS I've tried. The Bassman is just more tubeier.

 

[DJ Bebop]

While technically correct based on the notion that one component uses tubes and the other uses transistors, I think you're the only person I've ever seen refer to them as anything but tube amps since the power section was tube.


Which is why I referred to them as rare birds. The only other one I can think of were those Crank guitar amps that were popular in metal circles in the mid-00s.

I think Kustom had a hybrid amp. Kustom Studio 6 was a ss pre and tube power section (if my old brain still works)

 

[Wasnex]

That's my Yorkville XS800H, but honestly, I don't hear a HUGE difference between the tube and FET. It's still kinda new to me so I've been running it like my old rig and not pushing it like it probably wants. I do leave it on tube mostly, cuz i can hear a slight difference, just not the real obvious improvement i thought it would. May be time to experiment!

When running clean, the two channels of the GBE1200 are not night and day different as they are similarly voiced. The MOSFET channel is a touch more articulate, focused, and faster. IMHO, the real magic in the GBE1200 is to run both channels simultaneously with just a bit of drive on the tube channel. Use the EQ on the tube channel to shape the overdrive and then blend it back with the clean MOSFET signal. This gives you great control over how the signal compresses and distorts.

The GBE1200 is a my desert island amp. The only added feature I think it needs is a trimmer to allow level matching between blended and single preamp operation.

IMHO, most of what people consider tubey is compression, a bit of harmonic distortion and/or over drive, and possibly voicing. I say voicing because, on average, most "all tube" amps seem to be voiced a bit brighter than solid state, although I have one "all tube" amp that is really dark so it is not a hard fast rule.

Something to note, is none of the tubey qualities I mentioned are intrinsic to tube operation. Tube circuits can be extremely tight, clean, and accurate. In all honestly that's how I envisioned tubiness when I was younger. I learned to play through a blackface Fender pushing JBL E120s. This setup sounded way more HiFI than any solid state rig available at the time. Imagine my surprise when I bought my first SVT and 810 and learned what other people think tubey sounds like.

 

[fhm555]

It could be as simple as it being a little louder.
Louder always sounds better
When comparing two amps/pre-amps gain matching is an important step if you want the truth.


Add in one more comparison. Don't always flip the switch, but just touch the volume up or down a little. A little more volume will make it sound fuller, more lush, more bass, ...
It's important to gain match when comparing things.

That being the case, why have i not found a straight SS amp i like as much? I’ve owned a couple of GK’s, an LMII, a TH500, and a Peavey tour series since owning my first hybrid and none of them gave me what i really want, something i have no problem getting from the Carvin or my SWR Basic 350. In fairness i had several Peavey MK IV heads that i really liked, and an old TKO that was good but that’s been the extent of the SS amps i’ve been satisfied with. Not trying to be dificult here, just relating personal experience. Could well be biased, but i’m usually brutally honest with myself so i can’t imagine pumping sunshine over something as easily fixed as an amp that fails to blow my dress up.

 

[DJ Bebop]

It's the cable that matters.

View attachment 2899803


Some people sometimes hear something they attribute to the wrong thing.
Diodes are are classic tone makers.

"During the 1960s, Jack plugged his EB-3 into a stack of Marshall amps (Marshall 4x12s with Marshall 100 heads). His desire for greater volume induced him to crank up the volume control, unwittingly producing the heavy, distorted tone that became so popular in the ensuing years. Later, Jack had instrument technician Dan Armstrong install a diode into the EB-3's wiring to produce the same effect without overdriving his amplifiers."

 

[JimmyM]

The SVT wasn't invented specifically to provide "clean tubey goodness", it was done because at that time it was really the only practical way to deliver 300 watts RMS, as solid state simply wasn't up to the task (and wasn't for quite a while actually).

A distinction without a difference, innit?

 

[JimmyM]

That being the case, why have i not found a straight SS amp i like as much? I’ve owned a couple of GK’s, an LMII, a TH500, and a Peavey tour series since owning my first hybrid and none of them gave me what i really want, something i have no problem getting from the Carvin or my SWR Basic 350. In fairness i had several Peavey MK IV heads that i really liked, and an old TKO that was good but that’s been the extent of the SS amps i’ve been satisfied with. Not trying to be dificult here, just relating personal experience. Could well be biased, but i’m usually brutally honest with myself so i can’t imagine pumping sunshine over something as easily fixed as an amp that fails to blow my dress up.

Seamonkey is one of those rare individuals...a tube amp expert who has never used a tube amp in his life

 

[SJan3]

The SVT wasn't invented specifically to provide "clean tubey goodness", it was done because at that time it was really the only practical way to deliver 300 watts RMS, as solid state simply wasn't up to the task (and wasn't for quite a while actually).

Wasn't the Acoustic 360/361 introduced around the same time?