Update to the G2220 saga

[LBS-bass]

And there are also reasonable people who are reasonably convinced one way or the other, and don't accuse agnostics of covertly taking sides.

There may be, but I don't think I have a lot of info yet, so perhaps they have more info than I do.

 

[Guitalia]

Wow. Just checked what was happening with my attempt to register as a Gretsch Talk user from several days ago, only to run into an "Oops! Your account has been rejected" page. I imagine that anyone who has attempted to register since the single-coil/humbucker controvery began has been suspected of being a Low-End Lobster partisan.

Ironic, in my case: I provided the sound system for free and worked as backup bass player for all comers at the Baltimore/DC Gretsch Roundup shows, up to and including the last one. I also own four Gretsches, including a Rancher acoustic guitar, a G2410TG Streamliner, an Electromatic 6-string baritone/6-string guitar doubleneck (with two Gretsch Bigsbys!), and a Junior Jet bass (one of the early ones with a single real humbucker pickup). I feel slighted.

 

[g-dude]

What is the consensus TB opinion on whether this was intentional misinformation to the consumer or just poor communication between the production department and the advertising department?

Seems like it would be stupid business practice for it to be intentional but it went on too long to believe they really weren't aware of what they were selling.

Sometimes what appears to be malice can be best explained at simple incompetence.

That being said, certain corporate cultures seem to have this happen far more often than others. A good corporate culture is an intentional act. A bad one is also one as well, although it’s less obvious that it’s happening on the inside.

 

[Rocket Queen]

Sometimes what appears to be malice can be best explained at simple incompetence.

You left out the superset: malicious incompetence.

 

[Glazenn]

And not just discerning ones, given I'm here too.

THIS!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

What is the consensus TB opinion on whether this was intentional misinformation to the consumer or just poor communication between the production department and the advertising department?

Seems like it would be stupid business practice for it to be intentional but it went on too long to believe they really weren't aware of what they were selling.

Clearly, it was done by the Stonecutters on a break from keeping the metric system down.

 

[mbell75]

Anyone who owns ones of these and mad they got single coils instead of humbuckers, please feel free to send your bass to me. They sound awesome and play great, dont care if its single coil or hums. Thanks

 

[LowEndLobster]

Some interesting updates. Thomann has pulled the bass from their site apparently. You can find it in search and it shows in stock, but when you click it you get an "item unavailable" message. I suspect the EU's strong consumer protection laws resulted in more swift action from retailers, though this is just speculation.

We've still yet to hear anything official from Fender or Gretsch (I haven't gotten a response from my initial email either). I had a live stream last night with some fellow bass youtubers to discuss this whole thing. An interesting point was brought up and I think it's worth mentioning here. Corporations aren't people, and the response (via CS emails to people who have reached out) of "We assure you there was no intention for Gretsch to intentionally mislead our loyal consumers." is kind of whack.

Specifically looking at the "there was no intention". The intent isn't the issue here. They DID mislead their loyal customers. A corporation saying "we didn't mean to" is meaningless. Corporations don't have feelings. They act for the sake of profit (profit isn't a bad thing). They've been misrepresenting a product for 10 years. This product has passed through multiple stages of engineering, development, manufacturing, quality control inspection and with that has been OK'd by numerous people within the organization. The issue has been brought up by people well before my video was ever made and was largely ignored by support. Instruments were replaced, complaints were brushed off, deceit continued. They also DID produce a humbucker in the same housing for the G2202, so to put a single coil in the same housing and call it a humbucker (though it likely had a different part number) is not looking good. Their intentions are meaningless here and their actions resulted in their customers being mislead.

This is also something worth noting:

• Do you find the pickup noisy with an unacceptable degree of 60 cycle hum?

What a ridiculous question to ask. Everyone's environments are different, and the degree of hum that one gets is largely an environmental variable. It seems like they're tying to gauge whether to update the model with actual humbuckers (as originally advertised) or leave it be based on whether or not owners perceive the noise as a big deal. Going back to my car analogy from the old thread. You buy a car advertised with a V8, but for some reason it's a lot slower and more fuel efficient than you thought it'd be. You look under the hood and see a big plastic V8 engine cover, however underneath the cover you find a 4 cylinder. Nothing wrong with the 4 cylinder, but the car you purchased was advertised with a V8. You reach out to the manufacturer, and only once the issue gets enough attention does the manufacturer take action. They offer you a set of floor mats, a t shirt, a car wash, and give you a survey where they ask "did you find the car slow?". What does it matter? Gretsch is asking "Did you notice that we mislead you?".

This also highlights how atrocious the process is for the consumer to get Fender to address a legitimate issue with a product. Someone shouldn't need an established youtube channel in order to get them to address an issue of this magnitude. It shouldn't have had to get to this. In regards to damage control, I think that they are doing a terrible job. Consumers deserved to be addressed and public recognition of this issue would be a great start. The swag credits don't sit right with me when they're not paired with some meaningful action or a statement from the manufacturer. Hell, just saying "Hey all, we messed up on this bass. We're sorry we let you down and will work to do a better job accurately portraying our instruments." would go a long way.

Lastly, to the folks saying "well I still love the bass".. That's great! The topic here is the misrepresentation of the product, not the product itself.

 

[dasherf17]

And, that's the end of the whole saga...

(...and still it goes 15+ pages...)

 

[WG Plum]

I still like the bass, but I'm with ya, lobster.

 

[PeteCarlton]

(some?) people will be buttheads...

Just to remind everyone, this wasn't just a couple of buttheads, this was two highly-respected guitar manufacturers lying about their product. Stop the Spiel.

 

[Green Knight]

I didn't realise TB was US-only. I'll grab my warm beer and get my coat. Apologies for bothering all you colonial types.

I'll have you know Canadians are welcome here too, eh, even if nobody wants to ship here.

 

[LowEndLobster]

I'll have you know Canadians are welcome here too, eh, even if nobody wants to ship here.

Take off!

 

[mbell75]

Just to remind everyone, this wasn't just a couple of buttheads, this was two highly-respected guitar manufacturers lying about their product. Stop the Spiel.

So everyone mad should stop buying Fender and Gretsch immediately, price will drop and I'll scoop up the gear! Everyone angry should get rid of their Fender and Gretsch gear immediately as well! PM me what you have and I'll send my mailing address. Thanks

 

[Green Knight]

Take off!

From SCTV to The Trailer Park Boys, hosers love them some Geddy!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Some interesting updates. Thomann has pulled the bass from their site apparently. You can find it in search and it shows in stock, but when you click it you get an "item unavailable" message. I suspect the EU's strong consumer protection laws resulted in more swift action from retailers, though this is just speculation.

We've still yet to hear anything official from Fender or Gretsch (I haven't gotten a response from my initial email either). I had a live stream last night with some fellow bass youtubers to discuss this whole thing. An interesting point was brought up and I think it's worth mentioning here. Corporations aren't people, and the response (via CS emails to people who have reached out) of "We assure you there was no intention for Gretsch to intentionally mislead our loyal consumers." is kind of whack.

Specifically looking at the "there was no intention". The intent isn't the issue here. They DID mislead their loyal customers. A corporation saying "we didn't mean to" is meaningless. Corporations don't have feelings. They act for the sake of profit (profit isn't a bad thing). They've been misrepresenting a product for 10 years. This product has passed through multiple stages of engineering, development, manufacturing, quality control inspection and with that has been OK'd by numerous people within the organization. The issue has been brought up by people well before my video was ever made and was largely ignored by support. Instruments were replaced, complaints were brushed off, deceit continued. They also DID produce a humbucker in the same housing for the G2202, so to put a single coil in the same housing and call it a humbucker (though it likely had a different part number) is not looking good. Their intentions are meaningless here and their actions resulted in their customers being mislead.

This is also something worth noting:

• Do you find the pickup noisy with an unacceptable degree of 60 cycle hum?

What a ridiculous question to ask. Everyone's environments are different, and the degree of hum that one gets is largely an environmental variable. It seems like they're tying to gauge whether to update the model with actual humbuckers (as originally advertised) or leave it be based on whether or not owners perceive the noise as a big deal. Going back to my car analogy from the old thread. You buy a car advertised with a V8, but for some reason it's a lot slower and more fuel efficient than you thought it'd be. You look under the hood and see a big plastic V8 engine cover, however underneath the cover you find a 4 cylinder. Nothing wrong with the 4 cylinder, but the car you purchased was advertised with a V8. You reach out to the manufacturer, and only once the issue gets enough attention does the manufacturer take action. They offer you a set of floor mats, a t shirt, a car wash, and give you a survey where they ask "did you find the car slow?". What does it matter? Gretsch is asking "Did you notice that we mislead you?".

This also highlights how atrocious the process is for the consumer to get Fender to address a legitimate issue with a product. Someone shouldn't need an established youtube channel in order to get them to address an issue of this magnitude. It shouldn't have had to get to this. In regards to damage control, I think that they are doing a terrible job. Consumers deserved to be addressed and public recognition of this issue would be a great start. The swag credits don't sit right with me when they're not paired with some meaningful action or a statement from the manufacturer. Hell, just saying "Hey all, we messed up on this bass. We're sorry we let you down and will work to do a better job accurately portraying our instruments." would go a long way.

Lastly, to the folks saying "well I still love the bass".. That's great! The topic here is the misrepresentation of the product, not the product itself.

I'd quibble about the car analogy. Compared to the cost of the bass, it'd be about $8000 worth of floor mats. You probably couldn't get that many floor mats in your car!

 

[skycruiser]

 

[Asher Platts]

I decided to go through my emails, because I remember them telling me numerous times that they were actually humbuckers, but because a number of conversations happened on the phone, I didn't recall what I had in writing.

What you'll see in the full text below, is that the Customer Service guy first accused their service tech of lying.

Then they claim that the single coils are humbuckers that only rate at 5k Ohms. ********.

I also had several gigs that I wanted to play the bass on, but they never fixed it. The first tech broke the "neck" coil, so it just stopped working altogether.

 

[Asher Platts]

Okay ,i didn't realize the image attachment limit. The rest is attached in the previous post, but I wanted to pull this one out in particular

We know beyond a shadow of a doubt now they either didn't actually inspect the pickups, or they did and lied about what they found.

 

[LowEndLobster]

Okay ,i didn't realize the image attachment limit. The rest is attached in the previous post, but I wanted to pull this one out in particular View attachment 4673297

We know beyond a shadow of a doubt now they either didn't actually inspect the pickups, or they did and lied about what they found.

Wow.